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Being foreign, I don’t have a full understanding of how this works, but I see that universities ‘overbook’ in the manner of airlines, to the tune of 6-7 times available places for Russell group for some subjects.
A typical student might put in 6 applications, get 6 offers (unless it's a super competitive course) then accept 1 and a reserve. So 6 or 7 offers to 1 place ratio would be about average if the unis want to end up anywhere near viable/full.
General Studies was knocked off being included in UCAS points about a decade ago. With inflated grades it begs the question of the purpose of grade offers and interviews. One of the NYC universities had a period of open entry and graduates were found to benefit pro rata whatever their starting point.
A close relly (comprehensive school) got a knock back from Oxford and in a London interview got 'I've never heard of that school.' Anyway, he left med school with a starred MRes and a tutor reference comment of 'the brightest student I have ever taught.' Couple of years on and he's a clinical fellow. He's worked hard and done well but it does make you question the system which claims to seek out the most able but tends to favour the most privileged.
It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year’s intake and what they make of the coming academic year’s intake, especially those studying sciences.
it would be difficult to distinguish any anomaly they see from the "exam" system v's remote learning etc at uni.
I’m not aware from Jnr and his friends that interviews are at all common these days – think the only ones who i know were interviewed were the ones looking at Oxbridge. He certainly wasn’t interviewed by his back up universities.
Depends on subject. Very common for Art / Design etc type courses, where you'd bring a portfolio down and do an interview as part of the selection process.
now over to the Unis to balance out this pathetic scam over the coming years so as not to totally deflate the UKs education system in the eyes of the world.
Was the UK the only country in the world to have a pandemic? or just the only one to shut schools? So prey tell, what did all the more advanced education systems do to ensure that standards were maintained? Presumably the legacy education system you grew up in didn't teach you that there isn't a "UK education system"?
Well done everyone. Supporting youngsters through courses and results is tough on everyone in team child.
22nd of June I had the high of telling a pupil they had got the grade for medicine at Edinburgh and watched them get on their phone to accept the place, even was asked to check and double check the acceptance before it was sent.
Two hours later had the tell a kid that they had failed to get the grade they needed. In fact they'd fallen short by a whole grade.
I don't know any teacher in the Scottish "system" that had a good night's sleep from Easter to July. Contrary to what the politicians and exam boards say they massively messes the whole thing up. SQA even deleted documents that explained the acceptable evidence which was not what the public/parents were told.
My twins got the grades they needed. Still a bit traumatic for them (and us) given all the uncertainties around the assessments/results this year. Glad that we're done with the exam treadmill for now.
IME If you do further maths A level, it makes the “ordinary” A level Maths a trivial exercise in reality. t
I finished both A level maths papers in under 20 mins each and just walked out after that. I could just read the Q and write out the answer without having to even think about it.
It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year’s intake and what they make of the coming academic year’s intake, especially those studying sciences.
I'm the admissions tutor of a science department in a RG university.
Teaching was very different last year and difficult to compare to a 'normal' year. Anecdotally, I heard various comments about both home and overseas first year students with gaps in their knowledge. My first hand experience of teaching them backs some of this up.
What has grade inflation done for our intake? We, like a good number of RG universities have more students than places. This poses problems, especially when you have to fit them into a teaching lab or clinical placement.
exams aren’t a true reflection of worth or effort.
Wasn't that always the case?
I was bone idle at school and was continually dicking about and spent many hours either outside the Head's office or in isolation. Despite that I cruised through most subjects with good grades and was in either of the top classes in all subjects bar French.
Others tried their hardest and studied hard, yet were sat in the lower classes along with the clever-enough-but-cba students.
The lad got what he wanted. Re interviews, I'm pretty sure he had two interviews for Edinburgh Uni, a group one which was fairly informal and a solo one a little later. I'm really pleased for him, his world has been turned upside down what with one thing and another but he's come through it.
it does make you question the system which claims to seek out the most able but tends to favour the most privileged.
Oh, which country are you taking about here?
Sure as hell not the UK. ;-(
In the UK Cambridge International syllabuses allow for modular re-sits and include coursework. State schools are not allowed to teach CI but private schools are. State school students are therefore at a disadvantage.
A cursory look at the origins of students at elite universities would show a disproportionate number of privately educated students. You would have to conclude that either the rich are naturally brainier than the poor or that the parents paid out a fortune to give their kids a head start over their contemporaries. I doubt whether parents send their kids to Eton just so they can play the wall game.
A cursory look at the origins of students at elite universities would show a disproportionate number of privately educated students. You would have to conclude that either the rich are naturally brainier than the poor or that the parents paid out a fortune to give their kids a head start over their contemporaries. I doubt whether parents send their kids to Eton just so they can play the wall game.
In defence of Oxbridge and other top universities, they are pushing hard to bring in more state school pupils who have the ability, to the extent that the press has been reporting how this is upsetting the parents of kids at Eton. Heart bleeds etc.
Jnr wasn't originally looking at Oxbridge, but his 6th form college was part of their "outreach" programme, he was one of 20 or so kids who went down to have a look at them, got support with the application and interview, 11 of them got offers, at least 5 he knows have got in.
Certainly the impression I got from talking to the Oxbridge people is that they want the best brains, and they're trying to "talent spot" them wherever they can, rather than keep going back to the same private school routes.
A mates daughter at a Mansfield secondary school is on a similar Oxbridge programme.
The system is still skewed, but it's working hard to get better. The (great) grandchildren of miners and carpenters now have the chances that traditionally came from wealth and privilege.
As always, in a normal year, private school parents have an invested (yes I meant that) interest in the kids doing well. Also tend to have the infrastructure and ability at home to support school work. Add in schools paying more and expecting more to/from staff. Alongside there being a bar set for progression.
Every child in our region was given an iPad before lockdown which is great. But if you are the in the lowest 5% financially odds are WiFi is not a priority and a place to study not likely.
I was listening to R4 this morning and the whole issue is simplified but not down to the haves and the have nots.
Science Po has a quota of boursiers, students who qualify for grants, remember those? And a quota from deprived areas. He's in the most common demographic - teachers for parents. His flat mates have varied from poverty stricken to billionaires. The billionaires son was quite happy kipping on the floor of our house.
Uni is ace, a proper social mix, the only time a generation is nearly equal. Well done to all those who got the place they want.
We've one who did very well, as we knew already, in Nat5's.
And one that the college appear to have forgotten to mark...
While student support is being lovely, there is a tutor who has some explaining to do when they return next week.
Wow, there’s some negative and/or bitter people out today.
Just compare the paper headlines of today, compared with yesterday.... Once you get past the "well done's" yesterday's results just show how insane our education system is. According to the I, Next years students - and years to come, who will be expected to take a full course and exams will have inflated grades so as not to put them at a disadvantage with students of the last two years.
just show how insane our education system is
There are four different eduction systems, not one.
Agreed, this is a really difficult time for leaders in eduction. It shows the folly of exam and knowledge focussed testing systems.
Yep, MCD you're right. However, 'state school' entrants' numbers are also skewed by privately educated kids who then go on to eg Hills Road 6th form college. Also there is much variation between state schools and their students. Ultimately exam results reflect the distribution of wealth and in an unequal society it would be naive in the extreme to think we could have some sort of meritocracy. Inequalities still prevail once the kids graduate, I should think half the bar staff around here have a degree (but did not go to Winchester or Cheltenham).
I never claimed I was fair or right, merely that there are more opportunities now than 30 years ago for me.
According to the I, Next years students – and years to come, who will be expected to take a full course and exams will have inflated grades so as not to put them at a disadvantage with students of the last two years.
It's a concern, but it's newspaper speculation at this point. The exam boards yesterday were going to great lengths to stress that the last two years have been anomalies. Surely the sensible thing is to accept this, and go back to grading structures that reflect 2019 pre-pandemic levels.
Grades are pretty irrelevant once people have done the next level - whether that's 6th form, uni, apprenticeships or work. Next tears cohorts will be judged against their peers to move on, not this years.
Surely the sensible thing is to accept this, and go back to grading structures that reflect 2019 pre-pandemic levels.
Within the education world yes this would work - but not within employment.
Grades are pretty irrelevant once people have done the next level
Completely agree - my career as a hole has not been based on grades, rather experience and qualifications. However that first job, the foot onto the career ladder, will generally always be qualifications & grades based. Next year's A level students will also compete with this year's (and last) for jobs at the end of their education, not just their own year.
Within the education world yes this would work – but not within employment.
I wouldn't want to work for someone so stupid that they couldn't figure it out, to be honest.
The system is still skewed, but it’s working
hardslowly to get better. The (great) grandchildren of some miners and carpenters now have some of the chances that traditionally came from wealth and privilege.
FTFY!
A little thought to leave here.....
Why are we so convinced that the pre 2020 results are the correct ones? Granted, they accurately reflect the performance of the cohort in the exams but is that a true reflection of their ability?
The system this year was pretty thorough. Far from sticking your finger in the air and making up the result you needed evidence. Evidence from tests under exam conditions, submitted essays and assignments etc etc. 2 subject from every school were inspected by outside auditors and you had to submit your results before know which subjects these would be. Yes, there will have been some ambitious (some might say cynical) grading by teachers but from my experience most were trying to give fair honest appraisal of the ability of the kids in front of them.
Long term, as an employer, would you rather not know how that a candidate had performed in a less superficial way than a snap shot judgement from 2 or 3 hours of their academic life? In your workplace if you were assessed on nothing but a 3 hour window of time would you feel happy about that or would you rather your line manager took a broader view over your performance from the whole year?
Not saying what happened last year was anywhere near perfect (and lord knows the workload on the teachers was nuts) but I don't think it was necessarily all downsides.
Why are we so convinced that the pre 2020 results are the correct ones? Granted, they accurately reflect the performance of the cohort in the exams but is that a true reflection of their ability?
The system this year was pretty thorough. Far from sticking your finger in the air and making up the result you needed evidence.
Very fair points