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What a bizarre thing to say. Utter twaddle. The results are made up finger in the air judgements made by individual schools with a clear agenda to give their own pupils maximum scores in the certain knowledge that all other schools are doing the same.
I think they realised that, maybe they should have added the #sarcasm to it 🙂
she’d be better off doing just two subjects + Spanish as that would give her more time to study.
Is the Spanish her first language? If that is the case definitely don't get her doing 2 plus the spanish. A lot (most) better unis don't like students who take that route. It's seen as a cop out....because it is! I've worked with a few kids who have looked like they were going to fail one of the their 3 and subbed in their natural language as the 3rd but as an emergency measure. If being objective as a parent you think she'll be scrapping into a uni and doing an 'easy' option in one might help her get some grades let her go that way but if she has higher aspirations definitely not. Especially for the next few years....with the current crop of grades and the number of kids that delayed uni applications the competition for places is going to be tough and don't want to be hamstrung with a subject choice that some unis will frown upon.
If she is motivated enough to do 4 with the forth in her native language then happy days but personally I'd be encouraging her do something else with her time.
Does make me wonder why schools put kids up for more than 3 exams, then? Insurance policy, do an extra subject and that gives you an additional 25% chance of getting the three grades you need?
In our case was my daughters choice and against school advice. She wanted to do Chemistry but really enjoyed Geography, along with Physics and Maths. She was allowed to do it because of her previous results, and added the EPQ because it allowed her to research another subject she was interested in.
So of course they’re not getting the full education.
It’s not fair to say they’ve just missed out large chunks of courses or somehow lacking, it's not all down to simple grade inflation. At my daughters school they completed the full syllabus early so they could do extra testing in case this wasn’t possible due to lockdowns to help evidence results. These showed where knowledge was lacking and learning could be focused. Normally a student may only discover their gaps at a final exam, when it’s too late. The downside of continual assessment is every test and piece of work is important, which means it’s been a full on year if you want the top marks.
My nephew has had his heart set on being a vet for years. Getting into vet school (?) is tough as nails and he had loads of interviews etc. He's worked his ass off and just found out he got 3xA* so he's got in @ Bristol. He's utterly buzzing..... as are we 🙂
It’s not fair to say they’ve just missed out large chunks of courses or somehow lacking, it’s not all down to simple grade inflation. At my daughters school they completed the full syllabus early so they could do extra testing in case this wasn’t possible due to lockdowns to help evidence results.
By the sound of it, I wouldn't tend to include your daughter's school in my generalised "they". It sound just like my son's school in that respect. Huge amount of effort and dedication, which sadly results in a qualification that has been devalued through no fault of theirs.
He’s utterly buzzing….. as are we
Thats what its all about eh @Metalheart ?
The rest of the chat can do one.
Is the Spanish her first language? If that is the case definitely don’t get her doing 2 plus the spanish. A lot (most) better unis don’t like students who take that route. It’s seen as a cop out….because it is!
Thanks, that's basically my question answered 👍
well done to all those that got what they needed and commiserations where not.
I also wonder if the change from classroom learning to more directed learning will actually improve the kids abilities at University, where to do well you need to self guide as well as just do the lecture courses, etc. I know not everyone finds that part easy, but the exposure to it at GCSE and A level, and the increased maturity of a Uni age student may be beneficial overall.
I remember that being the hardest part of my first year, being given a list of papers to read and having to identify what I needed to know from them as opposed to copying down notes in class.
What a bizarre thing to say. Utter twaddle.
@thegeneralist exactly my point. Even the exam boards are saying the results are incomparable to previous years, what's the point of exams? The system is broken, and this just shows it.
At my daughters school they completed the full syllabus early so they could do extra testing in case this wasn’t possible due to lockdowns to help evidence results. These showed where knowledge was lacking and learning could be focused. Normally a student may only discover their gaps at a final exam, when it’s too late. The downside of continual assessment is every test and piece of work is important, which means it’s been a full on year if you want the top marks.
Same at my lad's college - at least 4 of his year that he knows have got into Oxbridge, there's a few more he's not that matey with he doesn't know about.
Not bad for a 6th form college in an iffy bit of Nottingham
Thats what its all about eh @Metalheart ?
The rest of the chat can do one.
My daughter's crying here, and I'm trying get an understanding of what her options are (and @convert is providing some decent advice). But we "can do one"? Cheers @DezB, that's very nice of you.
exactly my point. Even the exam boards are saying the results are incomparable to previous years, what’s the point of exams? The system is broken, and this just shows it.
Soz. I should have woken up before I started posting.
I also wonder if the change from classroom learning to more directed learning will actually improve the kids abilities at University, where to do well you need to self guide as well as just do the lecture courses
Just as it's been proven people can work effectively from home, it is possible for students to learn from home too. The pandemic has accelerated this on all fronts. It will change approach to learning for sure, though being mindful of the students where the home environment may not be conducive and the need for everyone to have appropriate IT access.
Well done to everyone who's celebrating their kids results - it must mean a lot. It doesnt seem that long ago to me that I was getting mine (Summer 2004).
I was immeasurably proud of my 2 year old getting his first Gymnastics badge for doing a roly-poly last week so lord knows I'll be an emotional wreck by the time hes a teenager.
There some interesting points raised by some including @convert .
Most seem to focus on the fact that the situation has helped some out by negating the possible impact of a bad exam day.
I would have fared very badly this year. I always excelled in exams. I was never stressed, or worried, I was self confident, almost to the point of brashness. Every teacher I've ever had, every school report I ever received, said I was very clever, but bone idle. I knew how to do the bare minimum all year, and then absolutely smash it in the exams. I massively over-performed in my GCSE's and to a lesser extent my A-levels, relative to the grades my teachers would predict (I.E. their presumptions based on my attitude and relaxed appearance, not my intelligence/aptitude for the subject).
In some ways thats still the way I am in my life and career - it annoys my partner that I never appear to be stressed or worried... laid back to the point of lying down, but that doesnt mean the same as 'doesnt care'.
Had I just finished 6th form this year, I would definitely have been 'given' worse grades by the staff than I would have recieved based on my performance in examinations.
I know it will be rare, but there will be others out there who would have used exams like I did, to really excel and surprise/please everybody with results that perhaps teachers or parents knew they were theoretically capable of, but didnt expect them to actually acheive.
he’s got in @ Bristol.
Congrats should have great time, did 3 yrs @ Bristol in the early 80's (engineering) and worked a lot with the vets school in the mid 90's (Horses on treadmills 😀 )
Horses on treadmills
🤔 did they take off?
no but you weren't allowed to walk in front of them, as they thought they were going to run into you and try and jump.
The results are made up finger in the air judgements made by individual schools with a clear agenda to give their own pupils maximum scores in the certain knowledge that all other schools are doing the same.
As a teacher, this is one of the things I find most frustrating about the press coverage and system in general. My Y13 classes completed the full syllabus and the submitted grades were based on significant assessment evidence and carefully weighted calculations to reflect the students' two year performance. This was followed up by three levels of scrutiny of grades/evidence from other staff (& neighbouring school) and comparisons to trend data, etc to make sure that there was no artificial inflation. I've read in a few places the idea that either a bingo machine or some intentional bias to boost figures has been the go to position for grades this year. I normally stay away from education-based things online, but there are plenty of schools who have done things thoroughly and properly. I know the students in my classes worked damned hard to achieve their grades and they deserve the grades they're receiving today.
It's great to see so many (rightly) proud parents on this thread - congratulations to your kids who are off to start the next exciting phase of their lives.
Apologies @mogrim, there was just a couple of posts that got my back up. TBH I didn't read all!
I know the students in my classes worked damned hard to achieve their grades and they deserve the grades they’re receiving today.
And a huge thanks to the teaching staff for making sure they got through the syllabus, did all the assessments, gave sometimes probably difficult grades, on top of all the other Covid stuff this last year
there are plenty of schools who have done things thoroughly and properly. I know the students in my classes worked damned hard to achieve their grades and they deserve the grades they’re receiving today
Well said. I think that pass rates have actually fallen slightly this year which is a sign some students may have not have adapted to the changes which is where attention should be focused, rather than dismissing the hard work everyone else has done.
@ mogrim
My daughter’s crying here, and I’m trying get an understanding of what her options are (and @convert is providing some decent advice). But we “can do one”? Cheers @DezB, that’s very nice of you.
Mogrim,
Just call the Universities to see what's on offer or available as they normally have something available, because that's the way I helped my niece and nephew.
Also check the local University(s) as they normally have something available for local students.
Children are cleverer under the Tories...[said with only the very tippy tip of my tongue in my cheek]
My heartful congratulations to all of your kids who've got the grades they need, on an individual level I'm sure they've done their best and deserve all the praise and recognition. From my partner's perspective ( a senior lecturer of Eng. Lit at a Russel Group university) it will no doubt be another year of having to deal with the trials and tribulations of kids who have zero business doing the course they find themselves allowed to enroll into.
Apologies @mogrim, there was just a couple of posts that got my back up. TBH I didn’t read all!
No problem, thanks for the apology. Your answer also got my back up 🙂
@chewkw it's not a problem this year, it's next year I'm thinking of. Today's grades were A/S level, not A level.
If the missed material is pertinent to the next stage of their education (e.g. aspects of the A level chemistry syllabus for someone taking chemistry at uni, but not the missed geography material the same pupil missed that is irrelevant to that chemistry degree course) they will need to catch it up and degree courses (and A level courses) are going to have to build that into their course structures.
Universities already deal with pupils coming from all different levels of experience/curricula. Not much of your A-level chemistry course is actually relevant to your chemistry degree - you spend quite a bit of time at University unlearning the simplifications taught at school!
you spend quite a bit of time at University unlearning the simplifications taught at school!
Last year it was just plagiarism that my partners and her colleagues were having to deal with the most. Lots of kids coming from school where including work from published authors is seen as "in-depth" knowledge, and not realising that's a "bad thing". Last year's first year were largely a disaster*, it's not going to get much better this year I think.
* from an academic perspective...the Universities overall seem to be just fine with the extra money...I mean students...did I say money? haha I mean students, obviously
Children are cleverer under the Tories…[said with only the very tippy tip of my tongue in my cheek]
No govt, I mean No govt regardless would say otherwise. Probably even more cleverer under lefty leaning govt ...
Your wife is right as all me mates agree with her
@chewkw it’s not a problem this year, it’s next year I’m thinking of. Today’s grades were A/S level, not A level.
Call the University for advice before next year and check out all that on offer to students from particular region/background/etc ...
so when does the A** grade come in?
having to deal with the trials and tribulations of kids who have zero business doing the course they find themselves allowed to enroll into.
What part do interviews play in the decision of who to offer to? Is too much emphasis put on the exam grades, which creates the exposure to this sort of situation. I mean, some of these A/A* results might be really B grades but hardly likely to be D's or E's are they?
Does a B student really have no business being on the course, and presumably if they were really D's and the beneficiaries of major grade inflation, would the pre-offer processes not screen them out?
As a teacher, this is one of the things I find most frustrating about the press coverage and system in general. My Y13 classes completed the full syllabus and the submitted grades were based on significant assessment evidence and carefully weighted calculations to reflect the students’ two year performance. This was followed up by three levels of scrutiny of grades/evidence from other staff (& neighbouring school) and comparisons to trend data, etc to make sure that there was no artificial inflation. I’ve read in a few places the idea that either a bingo machine or some intentional bias to boost figures has been the go to position for grades this year. I normally stay away from education-based things online, but there are plenty of schools who have done things thoroughly and properly. I know the students in my classes worked damned hard to achieve their grades and they deserve the grades they’re receiving today.
It’s great to see so many (rightly) proud parents on this thread – congratulations to your kids who are off to start the next exciting phase of their lives.
Absolutely! From what I know of my daughter's college the processes have been very rigorous. I also know that she worked her socks off over the full 2 years, and they covered the full syllabus. She got A*, A*, A which is more or less what she was predicted anyway.
What part do interviews play in the decision of who to offer to?
Hahaha, let me make it clear what happened last year for you, the University offered a place to 250 students for a course that normally accepts about 50 or so. I'll leave you to guess how many were interviewed by the staff running the course. Bear in mind that this is English. It's the money maker, it's the division that supports damn near everything else. How incentivised do you think the university was to make sure that the kids that had grades sufficient for the course were capable of actually doing the course? (All the kids enrolled last year had the right A-level grades)
so celebrations all round, but face it nobody in the process comes up smelling of roses.
now over to the Unis to balance out this pathetic scam over the coming years so as not to totally deflate the UKs education system in the eyes of the world.
What part do interviews play in the decision of who to offer to? Is too much emphasis put on the exam grades, which creates the exposure to this sort of situation. I mean, some of these A/A* results might be really B grades but hardly likely to be D’s or E’s are they?
Does a B student really have no business being on the course, and presumably if they were really D’s and the beneficiaries of major grade inflation, would the pre-offer processes not screen them out?
There are some very desirable and well thought of courses in Europe that have extremely modest entrance requirements. However, the number of places in the 2nd year is only half that in the first with a 50% built-in chop rate. Upsides being the uni gets a good look at you to see if can cut it and getting in because you are from a school/background that 'coached' you to great school grades is less relevant. Obvious downside is that the most financially secure are much better placed to take a punt on getting through the first year with the danger of getting binned with a debt being less of a threat. Regardless, the atmosphere in the first year must be very different to my UK 1990's uni experience!
the University offered a place to 250 students for a course that normally accepts about 50 or so. I’ll leave you to guess how many were interviewed by the staff running the course.
Wow. That's crackers. What University?
Bear in mind that this is English. It’s the money maker, it’s the division that supports damn near everything else.
How does that happen on a course with only 50 places per year?
How does that happen on a course with only 50 places per year?
Remember offered and accepted are very different beasts. Your average modestly able kid applying through UCAS to uni courses that are not way too ambitious for their predicted grades will be offered 4 or 5 places from their 5 choices. They can only accept one (or none if they have a change of heart about apply at all which is far from uncommon).
Wow, there's some negative and/or bitter people out today.
What part do interviews play in the decision of who to offer to?
I'm not aware from Jnr and his friends that interviews are at all common these days - think the only ones who i know were interviewed were the ones looking at Oxbridge. He certainly wasn't interviewed by his back up universities.
I remember being interviewed before being offered a place at Poly back in the day, though not the uni that was my first choice. Ended up at the Poly, left after a month, wrong course, wrong place, wrong time.
What are universities asking for, these days? Outside of Oxford/Cambridge, is it still 3 A levels? Or are they asking for 4 these days? Or is it 3 on the official offer, but you need to be doing 4 to actually get an offer?
My offer from Cambridge was AAA, I got AAAB but it didn't count as the 4th was Geography and I was applying to read Engineering.
(That was before A* grades)
Does make me wonder why schools put kids up for more than 3 exams, then? Insurance policy, do an extra subject and that gives you an additional 25% chance of getting the three grades you need?
Doing 4 full A levels is/was rare.
A lot of kids did general studies which counts as an A-Level for UCAS points, but Uni might offer AAA excluding general studies, or 300 points from 3 A levels excluding general studies.
I only did 4 as I enjoyed Geography and was naturally good at it. I think I had a perfect score in the AS exams and dropped a few percent in the more subjective of the final exams. I'd already agreed with the teachers that I could skip homework if I was busy and they'd give me a reading list of future topics so I could read ahead when I wasn't. So the actual stress of doing a 4th exam wasn't there, I just had 6 hours more class time and 6 hours less free periods a week than anyone else.
The only other ones in my year group that did were a couple of kids that did further Maths which was done in lunch hours. But again that was entirely optional. And the 2 or 3 kids that did it were the ones getting 95-100% in the AS anyway so it was easy for them.
I don't know of anyone that was asked to do 4 as an entry requirement.
How does that happen on a course with only 50 places per year?
Right so, the course my partner and one other lecturer teach within the English Division, accepts 50 students. The English division is everything from Teaching it to foreign students to creative writing, from obscure Medieval English translations, all the way to mainstream 20thC film and script writing
Remember offered and accepted are very different beasts
In a normal year, yes they are. Last year, not so much
I did 4 (5 if you count General Studies)
Chem/Phys/Maths, and then German. My German teacher told me a fourth in a different subject would be well received, and as a chemist, as the majority of big Chemical cos at the time were German HQ'ed then could open up opportunities in careers.
The Universities laughed at my answer of why I was doing four. I dropped German after the Univ application process but carried on and took the exam, and somehow achieved an E
As it turns out, detailed analysis of the motifs in Berltholt Brecht's plays has been of no use to my chemistry career.
IME If you do further maths A level, it makes the "ordinary" A level Maths a trivial exercise in reality. the standard pure maths paper You were supposed to do 6 questions from 12 in 3 hrs I managed all twelve in an hour and a half (I couldn't say the same about the further maths pure paper 🙂 ). So it doesn't really add that much work to say Maths, Further Maths, Physics & Chemistry (which is what I did along with the special papers in maths and further maths)
Being foreign, I don't have a full understanding of how this works, but I see that universities 'overbook' in the manner of airlines, to the tune of 6-7 times available places for Russell group for some subjects. Are offers binding on the institution if made, and if so, what happens when they receive more acceptances than expected?
I see there's incentives being offered in medicine to defer/change schools, but what happens in other subjects?
My nephew managed 4 A* and is off to Cambridge to study Classics. I've tried to convince him (only semi-seriously before you lot have a go at me :p) that's a waste of time and to do something more employer-relevant but it sounds like he wants to end up as a professor teaching the same useless stuff to the next generation a few hours a day, on way better pay and loads more holiday than me so I guess he's smarter than me :p
Think you're Classics at Cambridge may be more useless than my lad's Music at Cambridge - like a game of inverse Top Trumps 🤣
Unis usually over offer, knowing a reasonably predictable percentage will not get the required grades. Word from Cambridge was that this year they were expecting most people to get predicted grades so made fewer offers to reflect that. I assumed other universities had also figured it out...
but it sounds like he wants to end up as a professor
As long as he knows the chances of this happening are pretty much nil, he'll end up (in your words) doing something more employment relevant anyway.
what happens when they receive more acceptances than expected?
last year they were encouraged (by the govt) to accept them onto courses. This was explained away by saying things like "remote learning" and "online teaching" if as by the power of really really thinking it was all going to be OK, it would all, in the end, be OK.
It would be mildly interesting to see what unis are making of last year's intake and what they make of the coming academic year's intake, especially those studying sciences.