[Closed] A couple of muslim couriers...

[i]There was also a suggestion of abusive posts[/i]

People are asking the mods to add them now?

Surely the belief in the [arguably] implausible despite evidence to the contrary might be considered an issue of intellect, judgement or other mental faculties. Not saying I agree, but there is a conection to be argued. Where as "all gays/australians/short people are stupid" is taking an arbitary characteristic and applying such a judgement would be just abuse for abuses sake?

On the above I'd like the mods to add abuse towards me. I didn't come here for an argument, I came for abuse damn it!

The difference is THM that you dont choose to be black, white, male, female, homosexual etc

religion on the other hand is something that you decide upon based on the facts as you see them

obviously that ignores any issues of indoctrination/education, cultural factors etc

and certain research that has hinted at a genetic predisposition towards faith

So why is it ok to be rude and abusive towards religious people. In the past, STW has been accused of being tolerant toward religion bashing (or at least more tolerant) and you have rejected this.

I guess it depends on the context and whether or not it is the person or the belief that is being mocked.

Drawing comparisons between those of a religious persuasion and minorities such as homosexuals is however completely disingenuous. Religious people are not some put upon minority, they occupy a priviliged position in society. A better comparison would be between the mockery of religion and the mockery of white middle class men, such as me.

Well the idea that all religious people are stupid is clearly falsifiable. That is just rude (but apparently within forum rules). Now the idea that religious peoples view's on eg, creation may/may not be stupid is a different argument altogether. So the point still stands IMO.

[i]I came for abuse damn it! [/i]

There's a Dave Hinde thread near here you could contribute your undying love for him on and see some good results.

Ok, so as long as someone is not in a minority and/or enjoys some kind of privilege then it's ok to mock them?

Kimbers, I thought religion was a matter of faith for those stupid (sic) enough to follow it?

Well the idea that all religious people are stupid is clearly falsifiable.

That is just rude (but apparently within forum rules)

STW may be more atheist than other places but I suspect, with little effort, I can find a place where the religious are being far ruder about us.

* It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise bright individuals [ including scientists] will , without any objective evidence, think god exists. It is like having to debate, with an adult, the tooth fairy or [ SPOLIER} father christmas tbh.

Ok, so as long as someone is not in a minority and/or enjoys some kind of privilege then it's ok to mock them?

I didn't say it was okay I said it was a better comparison as a way to emphasise the fact that religious people are not the put upon minority that some people seem to think they are.

[i]religious people are not the put upon minority that some people seem to think they are. [/i]

in general, no.

on stw, yes.

+1. It's seems to be the one segment of society that is excluded from the forum rules consistently.

Conspiracists also get a good mocking on here and probably worse- it like we mock irrational positions.
this is no bad thing though it still has to stay civil
Also much mockery of positions
Hand wringers
PC gone mad
High horses
loony Left
Right wing fascistx/racists/EDL
etc

there is much more banter than just on the religious and you can be quite rude about gypsies as well

Tell you what, we'll all stop being ghastly to religious folk if they all stop being ghastly to those who don't share their beliefs. Deal?

Being offended for religious reasons deserves no more attention or care than being offended for any other reason.

Not mine, but sums things up for me.

Perfectly fair to debate (don't agree with mocking though) irrational positions (and different religions have certain positions that I personally find irrational or at least difficult to understand) but that is a very different point to being rude about people [b]simply[/b] based on the fact that they may be religious.

But as you say maybe it's easy to simply misunderstand comments like the one highlighted?!?

Specifically, the comment you refer to isn't saying the religious are stupid; quite the opposite, it is criticising the people who think that. That's how it reads to me anyhoo, I could be wrong.

why is it ok to be rude and abusive towards religious people

It's not, really. "Rude" is subjective perhaps, we're all adults (for some value of) and I don't really see an issue with light banter and differing opinion, but personal attacks are not on. Religion threads are moderated like any other, but we're not about to start censoring stuff just because we don't like or agree with the subject matter (as evidenced by the fact you still have football threads). I / we could be biased instead, but I guarantee you wouldn't like it.

Plenty of people get warnings and bans for being unnecessarily unpleasant. Just because you can't see it happening doesn't mean it's not there. I'd have thought that if anyone understood this concept, it'd be the religious. (-:

[I am not saying this should be so but] On the forum my partner modded, they had a thread stating who was banned/for how long/why.

Does concept this have a place on STW I wonder? Or is it a bit
[img] [/img]?

[i]Does concept this have a place on STW I wonder? [/i]

people would compete to be at the top.

all religio[s]us[/s]ns [s]people[/s] are stupid

As, almost ironically, Bernard Manning put it, religious people are fair game, because it's a [i]choice[/i]. Sex, race, orientation, those are things you can't choose, so they're taboo. Religion is a choice, and therefore open to ridicule.

As someone more-or-less said above as well, there is no such thing as "the right not to be offended"

What - compete to be banned? Well surely that wouldn't last long?!

But you can be religious and not believe things which are pushing the bounds of plausibility (world is n thousand years old where n is a number you can reassuringly count to on your hands). There are different levels of belief, and some are profound and some are silly, and require a real effort and outright dismissal of much of science and human knowledge to be maintained. Its hard to engage these and not mock, because to most people they really are very silly.

On the forum my partner modded, they had a thread stating who was banned/for how long/why.

Does concept this have a place on STW I wonder?

Offhand I'd hazard that, given the Kevin The Teenagers response we already get from some people when they receive bans / warnings, such a thread would only serve as ammunition for them. "I got three days and he did the same thing and only got two, it's so unfair and I hate you," or something.

Like the final line of the first reply cougs,(!!) but as you say I must have misread the highlighted quote even though JY hasn't presented your interpretation. May be that will follow. But hard to see that calling someone stupid is not rude IMO. Anyway, over and out.

P.s. not in favour of censoring subject (see EDL threads etc) as the comments speak volumes in themselves.

It is possible I had a little strop like that once. Interestingly when I talked to you about it later you had a different opinion of things, but I digress.

Anyhooooo....

Getting a bike fit is a choice - does that mean we can mock those folk too?

Surely yes, like wise for not getting bike fit.

Also, your shoes are stoopid. 😀

Tell you what, we'll all stop being ghastly to religious folk if they all stop being ghastly to those who don't share their beliefs. Deal?

Hang on - you want ALL religious people to stop being ghastly? Cos most of them already have. Not really fair to be ghastly to the decent ones just because someone entirely different is being ghastly, is it?

Do you like being abused by motorists just because you're a cyclist?

[quote=molgrips ]
Hang on - you want ALL religious people to stop being ghastly? Cos most of them already have. Not really fair to be ghastly to the decent ones just because someone entirely different is being ghastly, is it?

That's OK. We're not ALL being ghastly to religious folk either so it balances out.

molgrips - Member

Tell you what, we'll all stop being ghastly to religious folk if they all stop being ghastly to those who don't share their beliefs. Deal?

Hang on - you want ALL religious people to stop being ghastly? Cos most of them already have. Not really fair to be ghastly to the decent ones just because someone entirely different is being ghastly, is it?

Exactly, their are loads of decent religious folk. It seems like they're a bit of an obvious/easy target for many on here though. However, I get lambasted for ripping the piss out of middle aged men who can't bunnyhop their five grand mountain bikes.

Hang on - you want ALL religious people to stop being ghastly? Cos most of them already have. Not really fair to be ghastly to the decent ones just because someone entirely different is being ghastly, is it?

Have all the different christian and mulsim sects stopped being ghastly to homosexuals? I must have missed that in the news which is a surprise given how big a story that would be.

PENGUIN!

[img] [/img]

[i]Have all the different christian and mulsim sects[/i]

I don't think you need to limit yourself to either those specific religions or, frankly, only religious people when it comes to homophobia?

Interestingly when I talked to you about it later you had a different opinion of things

I get that a lot.

TBH, it's all subjective. What I've presented here is my take on the matter, other mods may disagree. But there's no "one size fits all" rulebook so we just have to try and make the right decisions. I'd like to think we're at least reasonably successful most of the time.

I don't think you need to limit yourself to either those specific religions or, frankly, only religious people when it comes to homophobia?

No but thanks to their priviliged position in society they do get to shout about it the loudest and have their opinions seriously listened to.

A Penguin worshipper paying tribute.

[img] [/img]

I don't think you need to limit yourself to either those specific religions or, frankly, only religious people when it comes to homophobia?

Sure, but the difference there is that those other people don't have a big book and blokes in frocks telling them to do it en masse.

For instance,

Was it him or the penguin that got over excited?

I blame fatcha.. And while we're on the subject, I haven't worked out how to quote people's posts using this new fangled smartphone, so may I just point out to teamhurtmore that all tory breath smells of dog poo

I'm off to start the "a couple of atheist postpeople..." thread.

Have all the different christian and mulsim sects stopped being ghastly to homosexuals?

A lot of Christians have stopped being ghastly to homosexuals yes. So can you stop being ghastly to them please? What's that? You don't know which ones they are?

Well that's my point, isn't it.

A lot of Christians have stopped being ghastly to homosexuals yes

The vast majority of christian churches have not stopped being ghastly to homosexuals and any individuals who have might do better to speak up a bit more and criticise their leaders.

But STW still likes to deride all religious people for being stupid, regardless of their actual views.

I know I'm stupid:)

I must have misread the highlighted quote even though JY hasn't presented your interpretation.

I had to re read this thread to see what was being discussed- I did not realise it was that comment tbh

I assume it is pretty clear I am mocking those who are saying that all religious people are stupid rather than I am saying it.
I accept it is not that clear and open to interpretation
I was not and nor would I ever say the religious are stupid in general even though that one belief is.

Knowing whether a person believes in a religion tells you nothing about how bright they are.

seems to be revolving around New Earth creationists rather than Muslims specifically / generally.

I thought it interesting that some christian gibberish seems to have leaked into one of the other monotheistic nonsenses.

A sort of intra-superstition meme, if you will.

A Penguin worshipper paying tribute.

[img] [/img]
/p>

[b]Heretic!!![/b]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven penguin, or any likeness of any penguin that is on the moon above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth (possible fracking thread crossover!). Thou shalt not bow down thyself to other flightless birds, nor serve them: for I the Penguin thy God am a jealous Penguin, visiting chocolate biscuits of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

— Penguidus 20:4-6 (KJV)

[img] [/img]

JY - sorry I obviously DID misread your comment! I agree with your final comment - there is no correlation either way between religious faith and intelligence.

But STW still likes to deride [s]all religious[/s] people for being stupid, regardless of their actual views.

...is more like it, really! 😀

So they were in line almost half of Americans

http://www.classwarfareexists.com/gallup-46-of-americans-believe-earth-has-existed-only-10000-years/

I'm going to estimate that I've taught Big bang Theory to several hundred Muslims. This included calculating the age of the Universe from 1/H. Not one has ever questioned the age of the Universe or anything else about the theory. Well except sensible scientific questions. But that wouldn't have made a very interesting thread would it.

Yeah well, I know a evangelical Geologist who believes the earth is thousands of years old.

I'm not even ****ing kidding.

But STW still likes to deride all religious people for being stupid, regardless of their actual views.

Well I for one certainly criticise irrational beliefs, but I'm not aware of ever having called some stupid. The irony of you criticising STW for having a single view whilst also criticising me for treating all religious people the same has however made me chuckle.

What - compete to be banned? Well surely that wouldn't last long?!

You'd be suprised. It took me 10 years of concerted effort and 89 bannings before I was perma-banned from a reasonably popular forum.

but all religious people [i]are[/i] stupid, I'm confused!

Russell nailed it in that video.

But STW still likes to deride all religious people for being stupid, regardless of their actual views.

I am offended by your rash generalisation.

STW doesn't do anything of the sort. A couple of users like to, and usually get told off when they do. It's all a bit Daily Mail-esque really, sensationalising problems that don't actually exist.

Go and sit in the corner and think about what you've done. (-:

But STW still likes to deride all religious people for being stupid, regardless of their actual views.

could someone please precis the thread, in a haiku if possible.

on first glance I thought woppit was coming across as sneeringly superior and belittling in his views and comments but this genuinely might not actually be the case.

This lot knocked on the door earlier...

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRReznLfvX7kGTDFneZNGTDp-0KoQczBlbuXJ-S7Goz-PD6yLlx [/img]

I'm totally convinced and have earned my place on the moon for a small donation. You lot of doubters are clearly ****ed, praise be to Penguallah *bows*

@yossarian:

Muslim Couriers, God
Religion, Argument - Sad
In summer, nothing

More or less follows the rules of Haiku but not by any means perfectly.

Cheers

Danny B

The only professional European Footballer ever to come out and say they were gay committed suicide due to the hate they received.

So were do we stand on football players and fans?

(Ps I hope I'm wrong on this but I'm sure its true)

this sort of backs up my point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

could someone please precis the thread, in a haiku if possible.

Bi-curious swan
Self loathing Muslim birdy
Smite them with thy wing

The only professional European Footballer ever to come out and say they were gay committed suicide due to the hate they received.

I am not saying there is not an issue but I assume the main one is the grief from the stands but it does shame the game

yossarian - Member

could someone please precis the thread, in a haiku if possible.

Troll mocks the righteous.
Molgrips denies man's nature.
Why aren't you in bed?

I have read all these post, surely we are missing something? They were couriers!

Of course !!

It's all falling into place.

The word Angel actually means messenger.

Our couriers where Angels.... (we won't worry about mashing up our religions)

But then hold on, isn't Woppit the post room guy?.... so maybe he's a fallen angel.

Woppit is the devil

😈

😆

I am not saying there is not an issue but I assume the main one is the grief from the stands but it does shame the game

To be fair, based on my very limited experience in football stands, that's not really an exclusively "homosexual" issue.

Woppit is the devil

By that argument, Woppit doesn't believe in himself. Awesome,

I'd say the biggest problem any high profile footballer has is not what's shouted at them for 90 minutes twice a week whilst they're playing it's being followed around 24/7 by photographers waiting for them to do anything in a public place.

Given that one of the guys (the "trainee") said that he thought everything was "designed" because "it looks like that", I was looking forward to asking him if he thought the earth went round the sun, or vice-versa...

Sadly, he was not in today. The regular one of the pair turned up, but didn't pursue the subject.

Hail the Penguin.

"Bearded Penguin" must be a euphemism for something filthy

The New Messiah:

this sort of backs up my point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

quite liked the brand/west'boro vid, that guy's T shirt is NSFW tho.

To be fair, based on my very limited experience in football stands, that's not really an exclusively "homosexual" issue

Its not that long ago that John Barnes had bananas thrown at him and really the abuse of black players stopped due to positive action and also due to the fact every team had black players.

I am sure a player will come out but I am surprised a high profile player has not come out after their career has ended.

It does shame the game though but some of the fans are proper arseholes
No surprise the EDL leadership grew out of football hooliganism for example