[Closed] A coppers lot.

thorpie - Member

All I ask is that you don't just take what is said in the media as gospel. The evidence is available for everyone to view.

People are using the evidence provided to the Hillsborough Independent Panel, including scrutiny from Lord Justice Stuart-Smith - should they not believe that ? Do you have no faith in the British judiciary ? Are you a copper ? 😕

That's what I'm wondering - did they know?

Heard a retired officer on 5Live say he had seen a scanned copy of his statement only recently (as a result of the investigations) and it had paragraphs missing now that he had written at the time. So he was unaware of the editing.

Pingu66, you clearly and rightly feel strongly about Hillsborough, but as with all groups you are lumping all officers together. From what Ive read of the Ian Thomlinson case he shouldnt have been in the force, he had resigned once and then been accepted back which is mind boggling.

I just worry that there is still a 'stick together and protect your own' mentality within the police which is understandable but not healthy. Maybe I'm wrong

I spent 2 years on our covert anti corruption/professional standards/internal affairs unit using the same techniques we use against serious organised criminals on suspected 'bent' coppers. My very last job on that dept ended up with the subject going to prison. I left that dept on promotion back to response policing, and far from being some form of pariah my PCs thought my last job was cool and fished for stories. Most of us don't want what we do being demeaned and undermined by the few.

As for Winsor's "independent" review, his findings echo word-for-word a Cameron speech made before they got into power on how he thought the police should be reformed. We are not against change; Ive been in 10 years and the whole organisation, structures, goals etc constantly change. I don't disagree with many of Winsor's proposals in theory, but the overall result is to change it from being seen as a vocation to a short term career, which will serve to lose the sense of dedication that it requires.

I've seen and done things that have reduced me to tears, I've seen the best and the worst in human nature, I've saved lives, and I've been robbed of the opportunity to do so by seconds. I joined at 30 and took a substantial paycut to do so. We're not all knuckle draggers- I'm not the only officer in my station with a PhD. The breadth of experiences I've had, the massive highs, the sense of family (check out officers nationwide offering to work in GMP to cover their officers to attend the funeral) and just occasionally the difference I've managed to make to someones life makes it the best job in the world. Sometimes.

Pingu66, of course I have respect for people that were killed at Hillsborough, how can you even suggest I don't. All I am saying is that I am able to speak with at least two officers, who were there, trying to rescue and save fans and I have the benefit of a different view (and opinion) of what happened that day. I am not covering up any policing mistakes as clearly there were some and amongst other issues (communication for example) these can be seen in the report. The mistakes made by police that day were not made at PC level and as well as having the upmost respect and sympathy for the 96 dead I also have the upmost sympathy and respect for my colleagues who were there, faced with the disaster, and just like the families who lost loved ones, a day doesn't go by where they are not affected in someway as well. Please don't try and twist my words and turn my comments into something they are not, our police service has taken a battering this last few weeks and although down I still remain committed and proud to be a Police Officer.

Trevor.

I read thorpies post as differentiating between coppers on the ground and management during and after the event rather than a slight on the fans and their families, but I am more distant than Pingu.

The front line officers reacted as you would hope they would, and I haven't heard of specific criticisms of their actions?

Everybody in that ground who survived was traumatised whether they wore a football shirt or a uniform. Like I said, you sometimes see the best in human nature displayed...

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crashtestmonkey, Thankyou, exactly as you said.

Trevor.

I agree that not all police are bad, however and as a generalisation, they close ranks to protect the guilty. Yes it was senior officers responsibility etc and yes I am 100% positive most police are doing and trying to do a fantastic job. Even though generally my experiences have been negative, occasionally due to my own actions and other times through no fault of my own.

I can relate stories of over zealous policing and lies in court on a personal level and I am not a bad person, fortunately the video evidence supported my version of events. Equally the media tend to portray the negative as news rather than the positive. But when the likes of Simon Harwood are treated with kid gloves you have to ask questions. Additionally the the police watchdog is asking for more powers after many many corruption allegations and only a handful of disciplinary actions against officers.

I have no doubt your jobs are difficult and the force needs reform however that will take time and where we are at today has been brought about by the actions of a few aggressively reported in the media. I t goes on at a lower level all the time and different forces have different reputations.

I wish we had a force we could trust implicitly but we are a long way from that and probably not in the next 20 years. Your job is also getting harder and you are at the front line of a fundamentally flawed judicial system. It must be so frustrating seeing people you know are guilty walking away or getting of relatively lightly.

I do acknowledge the difficulties you all face BUT it should not take public inquiries to own up to them. Even relatively small mistakes police cover up rather than stepping up and admitting "yes we could have done better". The nature of your job means mistakes will be made, we are all human. However its how we act when we make mistakes that makes us stand out. Regrettably as well its not the sort of job where you could operate as a lone wolf as you need to rely on your colleagues therefore it becomes very difficult to acknowledge the issues that you see.

Liverpool Matrix officers fired for selling seized goods on ebay.

Liverpool Chief Inspector sacked for gross misconduct.

Liverpool constable sacked for trawling files for vulnerable women to date.

Liverpool Officer sacked for visiting prostitutes

Unfortunately the media fail to report generally the great work the police often do. So for balance.

Liverpool the conviction of Anthony Walkers killers

Liverpool, conviction of Graham Heaps for killing a 3 year old.

Liverpool conviction of Rhys Jones killers

Liverpool conviction of the killers of James Bulger.

I can still say hand on heart that most officers are trying to do a good job, unfortunately the issues are spread right through your ranks that make it difficult to firstly do your job and secondly be respected by the public at large.

Its a difficult job nobody doubts that, you have the addition of relying on the judicial system after you have done your job. You often need the tenacity to uncover events and see things probably nobody should. Personally I treat officers I meet with respect, occasionally they have not deserved that respect.

However it doesn't help when people start calling people plebs, I am unsure what Hora does, I only hope they are not an officer!

From the bottom of my heart from what I have read I believe that the police on here are doing a genuinely good job, I wish they were alas good.