[Closed] 9/11 documentary

There's a reason high bypass turbofan engines aren't fitted to any supersonic aircraft...

Cool. But is it relevant to airliners hitting buildings way below supersonic speeds ?

nealglover - Member

Cool. But is it relevant to airliners hitting buildings way below supersonic speeds ?

Only from the aspect of proving any talk of the planes flying above (or close to) mach 1 being nonsense.

OK, now all of that bollox has been cleared up, can any of you explain which of the facts contained in this post you're refuting?

Regardless of debates on the physics of building collapse, do find it a bit odd that New York Police Commissioner on 9/11 Bernard Kerik went on to play a role in the Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority...

When you start looking into the Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority, things get interesting...

For example, Chief Spokesman for the CPA was Dan Senor...

Before going out to Iraq, Dan Senor had been working for the Carlyle Group.

That's the same Carlyle Group that had received extensive funding from the Bin Laden Family, and Al-Waleed Bin Talal, both alleged by multiple sources to be involved in the funding and training of Al-Qaeda.

It's also the same Carlyle Group who were holding their annual conference on 9/11, among the guests of honor was one of Bin Laden's brothers... One of Carlyle groups key figures, who had multiple dealings with the Bin Laden family, George HW Bush had been in attendance the previous day

Of course, Bin Laden has many siblings, but what makes this more mysterious is the way several members of the Bin Laden family and the House of Saud were evacuated on a private flight whilst airspace was still closed in the wake of 9/11.

The repatriation of the Saudis is far more than just a case of wealthy Arabs being granted special status by the White House under extraordinary conditions. For one thing, in the two years since September 11, a number of highly placed Saudis, including both bin Ladens and members of the royal family, have come under fire for their alleged roles in financing terrorism.

You can probably guess who was responsible for authorizing those flights...

[img] [/img]

[b]One of the commissioners, Max Cleland, even resigned because the commission had been "deliberately compromised by the president of the United States."[/b]

The question is what does any of that prove?

Not refuting any of it but I'm with Drac - so what?

I am both disputing some of it - that saudis fled or the Bin ladden specifically - and also saying so what if you latest fantasy is l true it proves nothing much anyway

That's a lot like the 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon game - you can connect anyone to just about anyone else in a surprisingly small number of steps. And when you include multinational companies with thousands of employees, it makes it even easier.

1. If they are facts provide sources, not just quoting yourself or a crazy video.

2. You’re still trying to disprove science with politics.

3. None of what you’ve quoted proves anything.it Is the definition of conjecture

Regardless of debates on the physics of building collapse, do find it a bit odd that New York Police Commissioner on 9/11 Bernard Kerik went on to play a role in the Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority...

This for example is a superb bit of bollocks. ‘Regardless of debates on the physics’ as if that is disproved by someone taking a job some time in the future.

JHJ, did you just quote yourself again? 🙂

OK, let's try and approach this with logic - where's your source for the "Bin Laden family and Saudi royals being evacuated on 9/11" story? Evacuated by whom, from where and where to? I know I'm wasting my time but....

1000!

Snopes is, as always, a useful resource

https://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp

No secret flights

That's a lot like the 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon game - you can connect anyone to just about anyone else in a surprisingly small number of steps. And when you include multinational companies with thousands of employees, it makes it even easier.

Given Bin Laden is one of about 40 odd brothers it’s probably about 2 degrees.

JHJ, did you just quote yourself again?

Of course he did. He’s having a conversation with himself.

He quotes “facts” (because he doesn’t like conjecture apparently 8O) )

But nobody listens, mainly because his “facts” are as reliable as a Yodel delivery driver.
(See secret flights snopes link above)

So he’s left to quote himself, and slowly disappear up his own bullshit spiral.

But more to the point, his list of spurious facts, tenuous link, coincidences are the perfect definition of Conjecture

A list of random events and half truths, enough to convince him that science is irrelevant and he knows best.

[b]CONJECTURE -
1.
form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information[/b]

Makes you think 🙄

Given Bin Laden is one of about 40 odd brothers it’s probably about 2 degrees.

I'm 2 degrees away from L. Ron Hubbard. Makes you think.

That's what THEY want you to think.

#LizardOverlords

Makes you think.

The question is what does any of that prove?

Well it certainly proves that a lot of the folk on here don't check my posts very thoroughly... the orignal post contains the links to the sources.

It also proves, through no fault of their own, that people don't know nearly enough about the Carlyle Group or the backgrounds of the people involved...

2. You’re still trying to disprove science with politics.

9/11 was a political event

Back to the flights... 1st up, lets take a look at information provided by snopes:

The claim that bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) were allowed to secretly fly out of the U.S. and back to Saudi Arabia while a government-imposed ban on air travel was in effect, all without any intervention by the FBI, [b]has since been negated by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the “9/11 Commission”)[/b]

Doesn't sit particularly well with:

[b]One of the commissioners, Max Cleland, even resigned because the commission had been "deliberately compromised by the president of the United States."[/b]

Expanding on the source from reputable publication vanity fair (link to which you can find in the original post)

[b]When he and Perez met at the terminal, a woman laughed at Grossi for even thinking he would be flying that day. Commercial flights had slowly begun to resume, but at 10:57 A.M. the F.A.A. had issued another notice to airmen, a reminder that private aviation was still prohibited. Three private planes violated the ban that day, and in each case a pair of jet fighters quickly forced the aircraft down. As far as private planes were concerned, America was still grounded. “I was told it would take White House approval,” says Grossi.[/b]

[b]Then one of the pilots arrived. “Here’s your plane,” he told Grossi. “Whenever you’re ready to go.”

Unbeknownst to Dan Grossi, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the 52-year-old Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States, had been in Washington orchestrating the exodus of about 140 Saudis[/b] scattered throughout the country who were members of, or close to, two enormous families.

One was the House of Saud, the family that rules the Royal Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and that, owing to its vast oil reserves, is the richest family in the world. The other was the ruling family’s friends and allies the bin Ladens, who, in addition to owning a multi-billion-dollar construction conglomerate, had spawned the notorious terrorist Osama bin Laden.

([url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Unger ]Craig Unger[/url] The Journalist who penned the piece for Vanity Fair wrote an extremely well researched book '[url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/House-Bush-Saud-Relationship-Dynasties/dp/1903933897 ]House of Bush, House of Saud[/url]' detailing the extensive links between the Bush family and Saudi Arabia)

From House of Bush, House of Saud:

But in fact, the Bush-Carlyle relationship began eight years earlier when the Carlyle Group put George W. Bush on the board of one of its subsidiaries, Caterair, in 1990. In 1993, after the Bush-Quayle administration left office and George H. W. Bush and James Baker were free to join the private sector, the Bush family's relationship with the Carlyle Group began to become substantive. By the end of that year, key figures at the Carlyle Group included such powerful Bush colleagues as James Baker, Frank Carlucci, and Richard Darman. Because George W. Bush's role at Carlyle had been marginal, the $1.4 billion figure includes no contracts that predated the arrival of Baker, Carlucci and Darman at Carlyle. With former Secretary of Defense Carlucci guiding the acquisition of defense companies, Carlyle finally began making real money from the Saudis, both through investments from the royal family, the bin Ladens and other members of the Saudi elite, and through lucrative defense investments.

[b]Now, let's not forget that Bandar Bin Sultan was personally thanked by Osama Bin Laden for helping bring American (CIA) support during Operation Cyclone (when ex CIA director George H.W. Bush was vice president, under Ronald Reagan)
[/b]

Still sticking to facts and fear not, there is PLENTY more

bencooper - Member

That's a lot like the 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon game

Indeed
Using JHJ's standard of "evidence" I can link David Attenborough, via me, to 9/11.

The question is what does any of that prove?

Well it certainly proves that a lot of the folk on here don't check my posts very thoroughly... the orignal post contains the links to the sources.

It also proves, through no fault of their own, that people don't know nearly enough about the Carlyle Group or the backgrounds of the people involved...
.
.
.
Edited out lots of CONJECTURE.

So. When given the opportunity to tell us what your big CONJECTURE list [b][u]Proves[/u][/b].

You offer [b][u]Nothing[/u][/b] whatsoever.

“Makes me think” that’s exactly the total of what it proves.

(I’ve made a couple of the most relevant words bold and underlined them, for clarity.

2. You’re still trying to disprove science with politics.

9/11 was a political event

Normies: On May 15, 2001, John Prescott punched a man who threw an egg at him.

JHJ: Some people have argued that it could not have been an egg, because it is impossible for an egg to break when thrown at less than supersonic speeds.

However, Prescott was a member of Tony Blair's government. Blair was alleged to have had several "romps" with Wendi Deng, wife of Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch is Australian, like the Great Barrier Reef. So the "egg" was probably a sphere of egg-like soup, constructed from a coral-based nano-material manufactured in Australia by jews.

Normies: You don't need to throw an egg at supersonic speed to break it.

JHJ: Wendi Deng wasn't wearing any pantyhose at a meeting in London in 2006.

9/11 was a political event

no, it was a terrorist attack. The annual conservative conference is a political event.

therefore, you still have no evidence to disprove the events of the day of 9/11. The scientific evidence remains unrefuted.

The claim that bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) were allowed to secretly fly out of the U.S. and back to Saudi Arabia while a government-imposed ban on air travel was in effect, all without any intervention by the FBI, has since been negated by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the “9/11 Commission”)

Doesn't sit particularly well with:

One of the commissioners, Max Cleland, even resigned because the commission had been "deliberately compromised by the president of the United States."

there is no causal link between the two that undermines the former statement. The flights took place on 13/11 when the tampa flight ban had been rescinded. Do you dispute that?

I've read the vanity fair article. All it says to me is that the US government probably wanted to keep the Saudi government on side. Even if (and this is conjecture) George Bush allowed them to leave because it suited a business relationship it is completely irrelevant to the act of 9/11.

You have no evidence of collusion between the US & Saudi (or Bush & Bin Laden) to commit terrorism on 9/11. All you have at best is possibly some dodgy favours, and you speculate wildly from there.

Another particular allegation is that a flight carrying Saudi nationals from Tampa, Florida, to Lexington, Kentucky, was allowed to fly while airspace was closed, with special approval by senior U.S. government officials. On September 13, Tampa police brought three young Saudis they were protecting on an off-duty security detail to the airport so they could get on a plane to Lexington. Tampa police arranged for two more private investigators to provide security on the flight. They boarded a chartered Learjet. The plane took off at 4:37 P.M., after national airspace was open, more than five hours after the Tampa airport had reopened, and after other flights had arrived at and departed from that airport. The three Saudi nationals debarked from the plane and were met by local police. Their private security guards were paid. and the police then escorted the three Saudi passengers to a hotel where they joined relatives already in Lexington. [b]The FBI is alleged to have had no record of the flight and denied that it occurred, hence contributing to the story of a “phantom flight.” This is another misunderstanding.[/b] The FBI was initially misinformed about how the Saudis got to Lexington by a local police officer in Lexington who did not have firsthand knowledge of the matter. [b]The Bureau subsequently learned about the flight.
[/b]
[b]These flights were screened by law enforcement officials[/b], primarily the FBI. For example, one flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. Screening of this flight was directed by an FBI agent in the Baltimore Field Office who was also a pilot … [b]The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency processes[/b]. Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 people on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity

from the snopes article, my bolds for clarity.

One of the commissioners, Max Cleland, even resigned because the commission had been "deliberately compromised by the president of the United States."

Again these are unrelated, but made to look a certain way to suit an agenda

1. Did Cleland resign? Yeah, he took up another post on 2004 on a different commission

2.did he say those things, again yeah but it was referring to the short time period avaliable for the commission to report and it's perceived lack of funds, not because he suspected Bush had some sort of involvement.

3. Did he resign [i]because[/i] he though the commission had been deliberately compromised? No he didn't.

Rather than post up all this nonsense Jhj why don't you just say bluntly who you think bombed the the towers why they did, and what they hoped to gain from it, and we'll start from that

Rather than post up all this nonsense Jhj why don't you just say bluntly who you think bombed the the towers why they did, and what they hoped to gain from it, and we'll start from that

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Like that’s ever going to happen 😛

Avoidance of your question and More irrelevant conjecture on the way from jivebunny......

2.did he say those things, again yeah but it was referring to the short time period avaliable for the commission to report and it's perceived lack of funds, not because he suspected Bush had some sort of involvement.

I can see you're all enjoying this, so who can guess who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president...

Avoidance of your question and More irrelevant conjecture on the way from jivebunny......

And then........ as if by magic.....

.....so who can guess who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president...

Boom!

I’m like Nostradamus me.

nealglover - Member

Avoidance of your question and More irrelevant conjecture on the way from jivebunny......

Ten points to nealglover.

I'm not straying into conjecture... I'm sticking to facts

How those facts are interpreted is up to the individual...

And you have been asked what YOUR interpretation of those “facts” are.

But you’ve ignored it.

So come on, what happened, why did it happen, who made it happen.

Simple questions for a man with all the FACTS.

(By the way, that wasn’t a fact at the top of the page, it was a “question” ... slight difference)

As I've said, I'm not straying into conjecture, but I have noticed that you've failed to provide any facts, or indeed answer any questions throughout the thread, just relying on a tired cocktail of derision, repetition and guff.

If you don't have any facts to provide, or knowledge on the subject, I'm confused as to why you're so eager to join in the discussion.

Posting names of policians and tedious links isn’t proving anything and you’ve yet to tell us any of the relevance.

Was John O'Neill a politician?

How about Mohammed Atta, Rudi Dekkers, Wally Hillard, Michael Brassington?

Not forgetting Ali Soufan and Abu Zubaydah...

Or Omar Al-Bayoumi

If you want to know the full story of 9/11, all of these people are relevant, but there is much to tell, so a bit of patience wouldn't go amiss.

If you want to know the full story of 9/11, all of these people are relevant, but there is much to tell, so a bit of patience wouldn't go amiss.

So you're just desperate for a bit of attention.
😆

If you don't have any facts to provide, or knowledge on the subject, I'm confused as to why you're so eager to join in the discussion.

It’s a thread about a 9/11 conspiracy documentary.

The documentary is a load of bollocks.

I’m here, as are many others, to point out obvious Bullshit.

So you're just desperate for a bit of attention.

Nailed it.

If you want to know the full story of 9/11

Give us the abridged version.

Or just your opinion on who,why etc.

It’s a really simple question. Look I’ll answer it.

Who: al-Qaeda Terrorists.
Why: Terror campaign against the west.

Took a few seconds. Your turn.......

Do you know who Robert Baer is?

Yes or no will do, but if you're feeling industrious, feel free to google and report back.

If you want to know the full story of 9/11, all of these people are relevant, but there is much to tell, so a bit of patience wouldn't go amiss.

After 30 pages we’re still waiting.

Do you know who Robert Baer is?

Yes. And here's a quote from him:
"For the record, I don't believe that the World Trade Center was brought down by our own explosives, or that a rocket, rather than an airliner, hit the Pentagon. I spent a career in the CIA trying to orchestrate plots, wasn't all that good at it, and certainly couldn't carry off 9/11. Nor could the real pros I had the pleasure to work with."

Do you know who Robert Baer is?

Yes. I've met him, along with many in the intelligence world.

Anyway, on Wiki (do your own research, etc)

He later stated, "For the record, I don't believe that the World Trade Center was brought down by our own explosives, or that a rocket, rather than an airliner, hit the Pentagon. I spent a career in the CIA trying to orchestrate plots, wasn't all that good at it, and certainly couldn't carry off 9/11. Nor could the real pros I had the pleasure to work with."

So, JHJ, who was it wot dun it then? Lizards? Illuminati? The Octonauts?

Do tell.

(Great minds, eh? Same quote!)

Do you know who Robert Baer is?

Yes, he wears those fancy yellow tartan trousers.

That's fine... let's remember, I've made it clear that I'm not really focused on how the buildings collapsed, more on if anyone was in on it.

So, for those that don't know, a quick run down of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer ]Robert Baer[/url]:

Robert Booker "Bob" Baer (born July 1, 1952) is an American author and a former CIA case officer who was primarily assigned to the Middle East. He is Time's intelligence columnist and has contributed to Vanity Fair, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post. Baer is a frequent commentator and author about issues related to international relations, espionage and U.S. foreign policy. Currently he is a reality television host on the History Channel's program "Hunting Hitler." He is an Intelligence and Security Analyst for CNN.

Sounds like a pretty credible guy all told...

jivehoneyjive - Member

That's fine... let's remember, I've made it clear that I'm not really focused on how the buildings collapsed

It was terrorists flying planes into them.

more on if anyone was in on it

The terrorists were in on it.
Robert Baer wasn't.

Glad to be of service.

Sounds like a pretty credible guy all told

Sounds like someone who makes money from selling stories.

Newsflash! You're buying them. 😆

I've made it clear that I'm not really focused on how the buildings collapsed,[b] more on if anyone was in on it.[/b]

Ok then.

So [b]who[/b] was in on it and [b]why[/b].

Just a simple [b]list[/b] will do.

(Or you could just avoid the simple question like you always do)