[Closed] 80mph (speed limit to increase)

Don't folks do 80ish anyways?

In which case, won't they now do 90ish?

* worries that not much has been achieved here *

There's another thread about this on now...

Thank god no one tailgates in this country

What about speed limits at 80, but average speed cameras along the motorways? Shows how few traffic police are actually on the roads though, as I get the impression that the various rep-moblies doing over a ton drive like that all the time.

Don't folks do 80ish anyways?

In which case, won't they now do 90ish?

I'd argue there's actually some joined up thinking here:
"Hammond is expected to couple the increase with an expansion of 20mph limits in many urban areas."

There's still not enough people to enforce it so it'll get as much respect as the current 70mph limit.

Whilst we're all making baseless predictions, I'll suggest that the difference on accidents will be 'none whatsoever' and that more people will obey an 80mph limit than a 70mph one.

Motorways to 80 and more built up areas to 20 = good news all round.

I'm not sure about everyone doing 80mph now anyway. I drive on the motorways of Britain and I think the prevailing speed has dropped to nearer 70mph in the last few years just due to volume of traffic.

I suspect this change won't make a blind bit of notice.

Unbelievable but true...
My car gets better fuel economy at 77mph than it does at 70mph. Something to do with the EGR valves apparently.

On long motorway trips the new speed limit would save me about 45p an hour as well as saving the planet...I for one will vote for it 😆

Why does the limit need to be raised?

80mph = 80mph + 10% = 88 mph

I'm looking out for one of these.

[img] [/img]

"Increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph would generate economic benefits of hundreds of millions of pounds through shorter journey times. So we will consult later this year on raising the limit to get Britain moving."

Hundreds of millions of pounds?
Shorter Journey times?
What planet is the bloke on?
Everyone who wants to do 80 on a motorway already does. The problem is finding a bit of motorway that isn't so rammed with cars or road works to do it on.

An increase in the speed limit to 80mph seems like a good idea to me, as does a decrease in the speed limit in some built up areas to 20mph. 70mph seems rather slow at times, as does 30mph in a built up area.

Average speeds probably won't increase that much due to all the delays that occur, so I doubt that average speed cameras will do much good - depending on the distance over which they measure said average speed.

The speed limit in France (in the dry) is 130kph (so, about 80mph) and the roads on which this is the case are mostly two lanes.

What we really need is a major improvement in the standard of driving: driving too fast for the conditions, tailgating, driving in the middle lane when the inside lane is empty and using a mobile phone whilst driving are all unacceptable.

From what I've read, Germany has tailgating cameras (not sure about speed cameras - probably not, I guess, on unrestricted roads), so obviously they think that tailgating is unacceptable when speed is not. I also noticed that lane discipline is much better in Germany - overtake, then move into the inside lane. This makes a lot of sense when there may be a car catching you up with a speed [i]differential[/i] of up to 100mph!

Speed is almost irrelevant - it's [i]inappropriate[/i] speed that counts. That would include driving too fast on the motorway in fog (other conditions may be available) as well as doing 30mph in a built up area past a blind junction (and we live almost opposite one of those, so I think I can say that with some knowledge) or a school...

Why does the limit need to be raised?

I wonder if they are going to increase the limit for HGVs, Towing etc, otherwise there is going to be a significant difference in speed between vehicles which'll be fun 🙄

Don't folks do 80ish anyways?
In which case, won't they now do 90ish?

No. They won't. They just won't need to keep looking around for cameras and will be able to look at the road more.

80mph is about 30 years overdue, but I'm not holding my breath personally

recently returned from a 4500 mile trip through Europe on the Motorbike.

in most countries, the limit is 130kph. superb lane discipline and awareness is what is lacking in the UK.

in Germany, my limit was about 200 kph on the un-restricted autobahns without suffering mental fatigue. loads of rest points with toilets all the way.

it's not the speed limit but the quality of awareness and lane discipline that needs criticism imho.

Has anybody ever been done for going to fast in an average speed camera area?
Never have been myself and do not of or have been told of anybody receiving a fine for doing so .

I also noticed that lane discipline is much better in Germany - overtake, then move into the inside lane.

I thought this was the law in Germany, with a fine if you don't adhere? It's something I'd gladly see introduced in this country.

alba23 - yeah, my sister got 3 points for stepping on it through some roadworks.

Until they bring in an instant ban for failing to leave a 2 second gap between the vehicle ahead, then any increase in limit is a BAAADDDDDDD idea. The standard of driving on our roads is nothing short of abysmal, and I say that as a part-time recreational cyclist who normally drives.

I'm for the extra 10mph but it would make more sense to try and educate people on correct lane discipline before they let them go faster 😆 I do 300 miles a week commuting to work on the M5 and theres rarely a day when i get there without wanting to kill some ****wad that has decided having to change lanes now and again is far too much effort for them 👿

I'm not sure about everyone doing 80mph now anyway. I drive on the motorways of Britain and I think the prevailing speed has dropped to nearer 70mph in the last few years just due to volume of traffic.

I've been doing the same motorway journey for 10 years now and i've noticed the same thing. Its either volume of traffic or people being more conscious about saving petrol due to rising fuel prices.

My car gets better fuel economy at 77mph than it does at 70mph. Something to do with the EGR valves apparently.

Is it petrol? Big petrol engines are so throttled back at lower speeds that the pumping losses in the throttle are higher than the extra air resistance at higher speed.

I would say make a deal - increase the speed limit, but enforce it. 70 or 80mph won't make much difference in itself, what we need is everyone travelling at the same speed. Now people are frustrated with 70mph so they decide to speed by 10, 15, 20mph or whatever. If we all did 80 it'd really help.

That was my biggest issue with German motorways. Whatever speed you were doing you always had slow traffic you had to pass and faster traffic trying to get by you - bedlam, especially on a two lane motorway.

average speed on the M62 through W Yorks is about 10mph these days

I reckon this is about 10 years too late. People are -finally- waking up to the fact that travelling faster uses more fuel and therefore hits them harder in the pocket

In the summer the avg rush hour speed of the M1 from Sheffield to Leeds is about 85-90mph. The inside lane can be about 45mph!

When its dark it goes mad the outside lane can be doing 30 the middle 70 and the inside will have one car in a mile ling stretch doing 40. Then everyone will be doing 80mph before all breaking to 20 etc etc. People just can't drive

JulianA is wise.

average speed on the M62 through W Yorks is about 10mph these days

That's because they all use the same goddamn lane. I've never known a road like it for having Lane Two Owners' conventions. When it goes to four lanes it doesn't make a fig of difference because everyone just drifts out to the third lane.

I do 80-90 all the time on motorways, where it's appropriate anyway. Changing the limit won't change that. I'm sure a lot of people will speed up but not all.

Good idea and long overdue, modern vehicles are more than capable of cruising safely at 80mph...its just the person behind the wheel that stuffs things up once in a while....perhaps an increase in speed will raise people's concentration?

With more and more urban areas going to 20mph, raising the motorway limit gives people an opportunity to claw back some journey time, i think this is probably the real reason for doing it.

The trend in recent years has been for 20mph urban areas and a lot of the national limit (60mph) single carriageway roads have been reclassified at 50mph....if you actually obeyed the limits these days you wouldnt get anywhere.

Personally i'd like them to go the whole hog in an Autobahn style without limits....but rigidly and mercilessly enforce lane discipline.

aracer - Member
Why does the limit need to be raised?

To help generate more respect for speed limits. The 70 limit is so discredited it encourages people to ignore the other important ones.

How will increasing the speed limit do that?

It's foolish populist nonsense to appeal to the Jeremy Clarksons of the UK.

Traffic, which is what everyone is complaining about, flows better when speeds are slower, hence the speed restrictions on the M25 when it gets busy. All this will do is get you to the next traffic jam quicker.

Reduce the speed limit to 55 mph, stop wasting fuel, reduce emissions, reduce delays, and if you need to be there quicker, just get up earlier.

The reasoning of increased economic activity is bollocks, the only times when it will be able to achieve the very slight improvement in in journey time will be when there is little economic activity occurring. As others have said people who want to do 80 mph do anyway. I'd really like to see how he came up with the figures.

Unbelievable but true...
My car gets better fuel economy at 77mph than it does at 70mph. Something to do with the EGR valves apparently.

What is your source for that? While engines are tuned to have better economy at different rev / load ranges the increase of 10% in speed results in a energy requirement increase of nearly 20%, this would make the improvement by the ERG is incredible.

crikey, that might make sense on overcrowded motorways but not everywhere. Traffic wouldn't flow better on the M8 at 55mph, since it's almost completely free-flowing at 70mph except at the city junctions, where a 55mph limit would be irrelevant.

In areas where traffic would benefit from a slower flow different limits could be imposed but reducing the national limit because it'd serve the M25 better? No thanks.

deviant - Member
Good idea and long overdue, modern vehicles are more than capable of cruising safely at 80mph...its just the person behind the wheel that stuffs things up once in a while....perhaps an increase in speed will raise people's concentration?

With more and more urban areas going to 20mph, raising the motorway limit gives people an opportunity to claw back some journey time, i think this is probably the real reason for doing it.

The trend in recent years has been for 20mph urban areas and a lot of the national limit (60mph) single carriageway roads have been reclassified at 50mph....if you actually obeyed the limits these days you wouldnt get anywhere.

!!!!!111111one

I call top troll!

Traffic, which is what everyone is complaining about, flows better when speeds are slower

When it's busy, yes. When it's not, 80mph would be more appropriate.

The answer to this: "[i]Why does the limit need to be raised?[/i]" has been given, and it's this: "[i]It's foolish populist nonsense to appeal to the Jeremy Clarksons of the UK.[/i]"

The government's a bit unpopular because they haven't got any money to spend on us, so everyone's feeling a bit pinched, so they're throwing a sop to the proles. Ironically, it'll end up actually costing everyone more because fuel costs will rise, journey times won't shorten because they're constrained by flow and congestion rather than top speed, accidents will increase and it'll generally solve nothing except blow smoke up the arses of the sort of whining morons who think the motorist is somehow victimised - notwithstanding the fact that more people than ever seem to be able to afford them, cover more miles in them, drive with more points on them (with over 10,000 people driving with more than 12 points on their licence) and seemingly mow down more cyclists than ever with apparent impunity. Victimised my big fat arse.

As noted above, anyone who's been on stretches which are heavily controlled by average speed cameras should have noticed by now that compared to unrestricted traffic during congestion, the traffic flows more rapidly overall at a uniform 50mph than it does at a chaotic and intermittent 70mph. The [i]whole bloody point[/i] of motorways is that they should operate at a steady, uniform speed - it's safer and it leads to improved overall flow. That's why we have slip roads and speed limits and lanes and minimum speed limits, to minimise any speed differentials and, where that's not possible, minimise their effects.

"Populist nonsense" is exactly what it is. "Grovelling and retarded" would be equally apt.

The one thing it does achieve is to make us more dependent on oil. So that's nice. We can keep on invading those sandy countries, it's all good business. Not to mention the extra few quid in the coffers thanks to the increase in duty revenue.

so i wonder what the plan is for HGVs, cars travelling faster lorries at the same speed? knowing how much attention some drivers pay to their surroundings doesn't sound like a good mix.

As for the economic argument, why not derestrict HGVs let them travel at car speeds...

The whole bloody point of motorways is that they should operate at a steady, uniform speed

Except they can't when some of the traffic has different speed limits. If we all travelled at 56mph then it would work well. Much like the M4 on a Friday evening actually.

However in between insulting us all you seem to have overlooked the fact that traffic is not always heavy.

I'm always bemused by people looking up to how Germans drive on the Autobahn: Whilst it's true that most drivers over there are law abiding, there is still a significant minority who tailgate at 140mph and they are responsible for the almost double death rate on motorways over there compared to here.
I have never yet, in years of driving in Germany, had a day (when I've needed to cover some mile) when I've not been stuck in some huge accident with multiple fatalities (back in July stuck from 3pm one day to find them still clearing up the next morning!).
Apparently no one has told the clowns doing 70mph more than the prevailing traffic that the human body can't react in 1/100sec and that driving 5 metres behind another car at that speed is like pointing a gun at someone elses head..

"[i]in between insulting us all you seem to have overlooked the fact that traffic is not always heavy[/i]"

Wasn't trying to insult everyone but always quite happy to inadvertently do so 😉

Round here the traffic pretty much is always heavy - at least it certainly is when there would be any actual economic benefit to reducing journey times. A higher limit at other times is a separately arguable issue, perhaps, but I'm not sure it's one that's related to any worthy cause like supposed economic benefit (fuel companies aside).

Hmmm, lets take a transport sytem based on a finite resource and lets legislate so that the finite resource gets used up even quicker, and causes more environmental problems.

It's bread and circuses molgrips, and you seem to be unable to see it.

Ooh, ooh, I can drive a bit quicker.... Yes, but you are paying through the nose for it, and will continue to complain about the price of fuel and the poor victimised motorist while pissing into the wind.

Enjoy. Enjoy yourselves, it's later than you think.

Future generations will look back and laugh at your silliness, just so you could get to your grannys on a Sunday 10 minutes quicker...

Its often pointless pulling over in the UK becasue the roads are so busy, the variable speed limit reinforces this as there are actually signs telling you to stay in lane.

Agree that 80mph is well overdue. I drive at 70 most of the time to conserve fuel, but if I'm in a hurry I drive at 86 purely becasue the last copper to give me 3 points for speeding on the motorway told me that was the cut off. Now it will be 96/97 even better, traveling through the night could be pretty rapid..

crikey - Member

It's foolish populist nonsense to appeal to the Jeremy Clarksons of the UK.

Traffic, which is what everyone is complaining about, flows better when speeds are slower, hence the speed restrictions on the M25 when it gets busy. All this will do is get you to the next traffic jam quicker.

Reduce the speed limit to 55 mph, stop wasting fuel, reduce emissions, reduce delays, and if you need to be there quicker, just get up earlier

"[i]They just won't need to keep looking around for cameras and will be able to look at the road more.[/i]"

No-one [i]needs[/i] to keep looking round for cameras. It's perfectly possible to drive in complete ignorance of the fact that cameras even exist. If doing so stops people looking at the road as much as they should then it's their conscious decision to do that.

Thats a joke!
If you get over 50mph on the M25 you're really moving.

molgrips - Member
When it's busy, yes. When it's not, 80mph would be more appropriate.

A big part is being made of the economic argument though, which is the times when the roads are busy!

"[i]A big part is being made of the economic argument though, which is the times when the roads are busy![/i]"

Quite. I mean molgrips himself said "[i]what we need is everyone travelling at the same speed[/i]" and "[i]when it's busy, yes [traffic flows better when speeds are slower][/i]", and at congested times (ie when there's more economic impact not only because they're the times when more people are engaged on work-related journeys but also the simple mathematical point that that's when the number of people on the motorway is greatest so the gains have the maximum multiplier) that's best achieved by actually [i]lowering[/i] the speed limit.

[i]I also noticed that lane discipline is much better in Germany - overtake, then move into the inside lane[/i]

You've never driven around Frankfurt (or anywhere else), where they've more than two lanes...

IME Drivers across the world are pretty crap once there are more than two lanes.

For me, just get rid of the general speed limit on motorways, and then enforce 'posted' limits for urban/fog/rain/congestion.

This morning the outside lane of the M40 was up in the 90's.

If people can get to work 10 minutes quicker, they will stay in bed for an extra 10 minutes...

Basic human behaviour, which seems to have escaped the notice of the ringmasters of this particular circus. Plus, getting to your destination will involve driving on A roads and possibly other minor roads, which in turn will lead to higher speeds on those roads as people assume that they are going too slowly after their increased speeds on the motorway.

Classic political dimwitted knobbery, designed to appeal to the stupids of the world.

'Course, what they should do is raise the limit to 80, take the extra fuel duty revenue from that, stick a penny or two on a litre as well and add that to it, then plough all that cash into paying for more rolling stock on the railways and pulling fares back down to the point where it's no longer twice as expensive to commute by train as it is by car (oh the victimised motorist) and put a few more buses on, and then that would leave the roads a bit clearer for everyone to charge up and down having a gay old time at 80mph. Everyone's a winner, lovely jubbly.

Also, I would like peace on earth, Piers Morgan given 900 hours' community service as a lesson to others, and a Cadbury's Fruit and Nut tree in my garden.

[i]and a Cadbury's Fruit and Nut tree in my garden[/i]

I thought they were a root vegetable, hence the foil wrapping?

Foil wrapping?! You remember the 1980s too 🙂

I've got the effing song from the advert stuck in my head now.

Everyones a fruit and .... Yes, me too now... 🙂

It's bread and circuses molgrips, and you seem to be unable to see it.

I can see all sides of the argument perfectly well thanks, I'm just pointing out the ones that some people here are overlooking.

You are right though - the economic argument is absolute crap.

My argument (if you read back) is that you should make a trade. Increase the limit and then MAKE SURE people stick to it. So we end up with predominantly 80mph traffic and no 85/90/100ers messing it up. However you've always got lorries, caravans and those who choose to drive at 65/70/75 anyway...

Plus, getting to your destination will involve driving on A roads and possibly other minor roads, which in turn will lead to higher speeds on those roads as people assume that they are going too slowly after their increased speeds on the motorway

My experience in Germany seems to back that up. Speed is hellish addictive, and many people's driving seemed to back that up.

So, no economic argument, no environmental argument, we seem to be back to the Jeremy Clarksonesque populist nonsense reasoning then?

Bread and circuses.

I can't afford to drive at 70, let alone 80. Spend most of my time on the motorway sat behind a big truck at 56mph. Much cheaper.

How many people check their tyres daily? Weekly? Ditto bulbs. Then there's the complete disregard for safety and commons sense by not keeping the 2 second gap (as I mentioned earlier), or bothering to indicate, or overtaking on solid white lines of hashed junctions. And people want to allow these morons to drive faster?

And sadly, we're not talking about a minority of drivers, but the vast majority.

I am totally against it. Unless we have regularly medical/eye exams and stricter tests/penalties I really do think motorists are incompetent at high speeds. Just drive on any motorway and witness the jet pilots in the fastlane as well.

No way. 70 is nothing to ANY car. Its the operator of the machinery that's behind

if I'm in a hurry I drive at 86 purely becasue the last copper to give me 3 points for speeding on the motorway told me that was the cut off.

If you get over 50mph on the M25 you're really moving.

As for the economic argument, everybody is making the false assumption that most economic activity = most cars = rush hour. Rush hour is an irrelevance to economic activity - as identified by crikey up there (though I think he was trying to make a different point), the speed at rush hour has no effect on economic activity, just how long people get to spend in bed. Economic activity is affected by how long it takes people to travel whilst they're already at work - see my comments above about the speed you can travel during the working day between rush hours.

my journey times won't shorten because they're constrained by flow and congestion rather than top speed

Round here the traffic pretty much is always heavy when I'm on the road

My argument (if you read back) is that you should make a trade. Increase the limit and then MAKE SURE people stick to it.

I'm sure that driving at 80 will increase the revenue to the treasury through fuel duty, but probably not enough to employ people or the technology to enforce it.

As for the economic argument, everybody is making the false assumption that most economic activity = most cars = rush hour. Rush hour is an irrelevance to economic activity

Not if you are a HGV driver driving along the M25 at rush hour. Its a truck park 24-7. Rush hour. More like rush three hours.

I would argue against increasing the speed limit to 80 as there are already too many idiotic drivers out there already, but since there aren't too many police patrols enforcing the 70 limit, it won't make a difference.

A lot of idiotic driving is down to drivers who believe their car will protect them with all kinds of driver aids and safety devices.

As for enforcement, a couple of thousand pounds fine, points on the licence or impound and crush the car for anyone caught using a mobile phone while driving.

Not if you are a HGV driver driving along the M25 at rush hour.

As for the safety thing - just how many accidents take place on the motorway involving vehicles travelling in excess of the speed limit - as opposed to say being an idiot under the speed limit, or driving too fast for the conditions when it's foggy?

Ah - the vehicles for whom changing the speed limit will make no difference. Useful data point.

Rush hour is an irrelevance to economic activity

Economic activity is affected by how long it takes people to travel whilst they're already at work

Which HGV drivers are. I wasn't in this instance pointing out how changing the speed limit would affect HGVs only that with everyone else on the road going to work and as a result not economically contributing, there are others that are, who are hindered by such activity.

As for the safety thing - just how many accidents take place on the motorway involving vehicles travelling in excess of the speed limit - as opposed to say being an idiot under the speed limit, or driving too fast for the conditions when it's foggy?

I don't seem to remember saying that its just speed that causes accidents. I was commenting on whether the speed limit is 70 or 80, is not relevant if its not being properly enforced. Just like trying to enforce the ban on driving while using a phone is a bit pointless, because those that are caught are few and far between and you only get a small fine.

I can't afford to drive at 70, let alone 80. Spend most of my time on the motorway sat behind a big truck at 56mph. Much cheaper.

Until Spitfighter pilot comes down the slip road and is intent on getting onto the motorway asap and wipes you and your car out.

Behind a truck in 3rd lane is probably the most dangerous place to be for many many reasons.

Hmmmmmm,

80mph on the motorway

Bin collection back to once a week

Conservative Conference in a couple of days time.....

Until Spitfighter pilot comes down the slip road and is intent on getting onto the motorway asap and wipes you and your car out.

Behind a truck in 3rd lane is probably the most dangerous place to be for many many reasons.

yeah, other drivers being selfish twunts with no concept of right-of-way.

good point emsz!

i dont think the speed limit should be increased to 80, they should just enforce the 70 limit, maybe drop it to 60 🙂 i'd be happy with that. lots more average speed checks, they seem to stop the bunching up effect of all the idiots ragging it up to 80-90 just to hit the brakes again and cause the concertina effect that only further enrages bad drivers.

60 is too slow. Enforce at 80 but if you put it upto 80 then a small proportion of drivers will feel obliged to drive above their talent/concentration and hand/eye co-ordination level and feel 'edgy' and possibly panic.

Some people need saving from themselves.

Nothing will happen. Its just a headline grabbing consultation.

Quick summary for those who can't be bothered to read the whole thread:

A) On motorways where there is little traffic then 80mph will make little difference as people drive that fast or faster anyway

B) On motorways that are congested then 80mph will make little difference as people are stuck in traffic and travelling slower than that anyway

C) Most motorists (none of us obviously) need to drive better and this would make a bigger difference

D) Various other guff and opinions

Stopping distances will go up quite a bit - 490ft to 640ft IIRC. Given that most drivers can't seem to leave a big enough gap as it is, this concerns me more than any other aspect of the proposal.

🙂 some of us are perfectly happy driving at 80 safely, but chose to drive slower (and as a result at a much smoother and more consistent speed) to conserve fuel and money.

I have recently done a few 300 mile journey so to pass the boredom i thought i would try different speeds to see what happened to the economy.

Cruise control at 70mph = 27.4 mpg
Cruise control at 100mph = 25.5 mpg

Averages over motorway section of journey alloing for speeding up and slowing down to take account of traffic / cops etc

70mph = 27.1 mpg
100mph = 24.9 mpg

It looks like most of the mpg's escaped when speeding up to cruising speed and as 100mph is faster than 70mph it used more of them to get there.

I think this backs up what phil says about driving more steadily saves fuel.

Journey times were about 1 hour difference and consumption about 1 gallon difference.

Is arriving home 1 hour earlier worth £7?

🙂

ever since i started driving i've always cleared the trip counter when i fill up, means i can keep an eye on how much it costs me per mile. it also means that i can do my own little tests, drive at 56-60mph = 10p or less a mile, drive at 70 and all the accelerating and braking that comes with it = 15p a mile, drive like a dick = 20p+ a mile, more risks, more frustration at slower cars, only get home 2 minutes faster.

I strongly suggest none of you ever drive in NZ - you might have an eppy. Worst drivers in the world.

Cruise control at 70mph = 27.4 mpg
Cruise control at 100mph = 25.5 mpg

That's your big Merc isn't it? As above, the difference is less in big petrol cars.

In my diesel Passat, it's more like this:

70mph = 53mpg
80mph = 48mpg
100mph = 40mpg

i never normally bother. i just sit in the middle lane randomly speeding up and slowing down. Occasionally I swerve or brake heavily for no good reason. Sometimes I wave my hands around and shout at my phone while drifting across all three lanes and changing speed erratically. If it is raining I put my rear fog light on and either try to hook my front bumper onto the rear bumper of the car in front or drive REALLY slowly and try and block other drivers who want to pass as I know best what speed everyone should travel at.

Oh, hang on. That is the other drivers. i am faultless 😉

Actually, thinking about it, 80mph will be pretty good for me. I'll be able to use 6th gear in the Ducati.... Dukes are known to be a bit high geared and to be honest 6th isn't much good until you get to 70. It's a right pain in the arse keeping the damned thing below 80 on the motorways, I can tell you.

ever since i started driving i've always cleared the trip counter when i fill up, means i can keep an eye on how much it costs me per mile. it also means that i can do my own little tests, drive at 56-60mph = 10p or less a mile, drive at 70 and all the accelerating and braking that comes with it = 15p a mile, drive like a dick = 20p+ a mile, more risks, more frustration at slower cars, only get home 2 minutes faster.

Ahhhh! A fellow fuel geek in the making!

I shall have words with you tomorrow young man! 😉

*puts up his dukes*

[img] [/img]

mrspoddy coming along too? 😀

Is arriving home 1 hour earlier worth £7?