[quote=allthepies ]I would do it.
HTH.
You're on the list
HTH
..but he's got the kettle on half an hour before you lot still sat at the roundabout.
It's just not British.
So if the exit is full it could have an impact. If the exit is empty on a typical multi-lane island, probably not so much.
Thankfully, I understand the priority at roundabouts! 😀
Ooooh, I'm all conflicted. It feels like it's a shit trick to pull but if (and really only if) all the other approaches have short queues AND the exit you want is free-running after the roundabout, then the dicks are actually evening things out at what might be an imbalanced traffic flow that maybe should be light-controlled.
Still, dicks gonna dick whatever I think
Depends...if no direction arrows on road then either lane can go straight on, typically left lane for left or straight on and right lane for right or straight on if no markings or other indicators and left lane is rammed...
[quote=jamj1974 ]So if the exit is full it could have an impact. If the exit is empty on a typical multi-lane island, probably not so much.
If the exit is full then it simply has the effect of queue jumping and holding up traffic coming from other directions as described above. If the exit is empty, then the impact is potentially higher, as the traffic going in the direction the nobber is going is limited by the junction capacity - which the nobber has just decreased, so the queue in that direction is actually likely to be lengthened.
I don't get it either. Why do 1.5 laps?
Isn't a 540 just a glorified U turn?
Assuming the OP meant 720 or 360 then absolutely not thats very rude and non british.
Howevever... doing a 270 to turn left yes I do that fairly often, somehow thats OK in my mind, no idea why they should be different !
I'd say this one is fair game.
Watch out for big roundabouts with traffic lights on though. Nothing worse than sitting at a red light watching all of those cars which were behind you drive past!
Fair game I say. Switching lanes every 2 mins in slow moving traffic is for bell ends though.
I don't see any issue with it, then I'm not a great considerate driver who worries about the feelings of others because I see a more efficient route home. As long as no laws are broken and it is only feelings, then what is the problem?
Most people who would be bothered by it are only pissed off because they were either too dumb to think about it or too scared.
Very clever OP, we now have a list of all the nobbers on the forum whose opinions we don't have to take seriously any more 😆
but he's got the kettle on half an hour before you lot still sat at the roundabout.
Unlikely most poor driving manoeuvres save only seconds.
Ah but many seconds add up, fair to assume there is more than 1 time saving exercise on the go...
^ He gets it 🙂
I believe the correct term is 'making progress'. 🙂
I've done it once or twice, normally on unfamiliar roads when you're in the outside and miss the end of the left-turning queue. You can either sit there holding up traffic in your lane hoping some passive aggressive IT manager will stop pretending to ignore you and let you back in, or cruise serenely round as they sit there boiling their piss.
It's nearly as awful as people who don't queue properly for the self-serve checkouts at my local Tesco. Death's too good for them!
Is this in a car or on a bicycle?
"wonder what the percentage of people who think this is ok are also tories."
Nah, it'll be a socialist thing. The I haven't got it but some one else has so its ok to steal it idea. 😆
I do this all the time. Don't see what's wrong with it
I see where you're coming from. But the OP isn't saying how many degrees you've turned through, he's talking about the angle between your incoming and outgoing paths. So 180º and 540º are straight on.Isn't a 540 just a glorified U turn?
It doesn't affect the overall capacity of the junction or the flow of traffic, you'll still get the same number of cars flowing through the junction. However, it does create a sense of injustice for the people who obey the rules of the road. It's is blatant queue jumping. Just the same as if you were to walk to the front of a queue at the supermarket check-out. It wouldn't take long for people behind you to tell you where to go. If everyone did it then the second lane and roundabout would very quickly become clogged up affecting the flow of the other roads leading to that roundabout and the inside 'proper' lane would grind to a halt as they would have to give way to those on the roundabout.
It's rude. It's arrogant, it's provocative. You're not breaking any rules in the black and white interpretation, but you are breaking the obvious intent of the rules. People who do it are ds. There is alot of dish behaviour you see on the roads every day and this is one.
Go for it. I have no problem remembering drivers that do this and move onto the roundabout slow enough to all the car behind me and the one behind that on at the same time leaving you trapped on the inside lane.
People that do the extra lap of the roundabout to jump queues just spoil the flow at the roundabout making the situation worse.
Strictly for bell ends with no manners & little patience.
the angle between your incoming and outgoing paths. So 180º and 540º are straight on.
If you don't turn, the angle is 0. If you turn left or right, it's 90, if you go back on yourself, it's 180.
Not far from my house there is a T junction. 90% of traffic turns right, thats fine. Its a 2 lane exit with enough space for maybe 4 cars in each lane before it goes back to a single lane feed.
Traffic coming from left and right can be heavy , so it can take a minute or so to exit.
The local boy racers turn left , then use the next right turn entrance/exit to pull a quick 180' and re- enter the traffic flow , just to avoid sitting in a short queue.
What if the queue's only backed up behind the junction because there's roadworks and a "merge in turn in 800 yards" and everyone's insisting on leaving the right lane empty because it's the right and proper British thing to do?
What if the queue's only backed up behind the junction because there's roadworks and a "merge in turn in 800 yards" and everyone's insisting on leaving the right lane empty because it's the right and proper British thing to do?
Dear god! I can't live my life on "What ifs".
What we need are signs! Brits love signs and will generally accept anything if told to do so. Case in point. Drive through the Scottish highlands on narrow roads and there are signs clearly saying "Please use passing places to allow faster traffic to pass". Rarely do you need to go further than the first passing place for a slower car to let you by. Now we don't have those signs in Wales and you can sit behind a slow moving tourist admiring the view for miles and miles. They would never consider letting you past as they have not had it justified by signage.
In germany there are frequently signs where 2 lanes become one saying "use both lanes and merge like a zip". And guess what, no single queue with d**ks pushing in at the front, just a steady merging of 2 equal length lines of traffic.
I'm pretty sure the majority of commuters won't even notice it's happened.
Quite. Far too busy with Fb/coffee/ personal grooming/changing radio stations/aircon/whatever to notice one particular car out of dozens.
Unless you're driving something like a Challenger SRT which might attract some attention, but otherwise as above.
[quote=welshfarmer ]In germany there are frequently signs where 2 lanes become one saying "use both lanes and merge like a zip". And guess what, no single queue with d**ks pushing in at the front, just a steady merging of 2 equal length lines of traffic.
Well that's where your theory fails. On a short bit of 2 lane DC local to me* which merges into one they have signs saying use both lanes when queuing. When I last drove that way the left lane was solid all the way back to the previous roundabout - I was in the lane on the roundabout which exits onto the right lane, so cruised up an empty lane almost to the front. I don't know if that makes me a dick, but I know it's actually the correct thing to do in such circumstances, so I did it fairly slowly to avoid looking like too much of a nobber and didn't feel at all guilty. I think part of the problem there (apart from that whole bit of road being a dogs breakfast) is that before the roundabout it's a SC only splitting into 2 lanes just before the roundabout - the right lane is signed to go straight on and I routinely use it, but I think a lot of drivers are too stupid to do so.
*the next junction after is a roundabout where I've seen people doing similar to as described in the OP - at that roundabout it definitely uses up capacity and makes traffic flow worse.
In germany there are frequently signs where 2 lanes become one saying "use both lanes and merge like a zip". And guess what, no single queue with d**ks pushing in at the front, just a steady merging of 2 equal length lines of traffic.
Yeah, sadly the signs that say "use both lanes when queuing" are a step too far for some british motorists. Last week we came across a caravan who felt it his duty to block both lanes to prevent anyone doing so. Have had similar issues at other roadworks with these signs. Genuinely curious to know what these people think those signs mean.
It doesn't affect the overall capacity of the junction or the flow of traffic
Seriously? OK, for simplicity imagine a single lane roundabout operating at capacity i.e. you've got queues on all approaches and traffic is circulating on the roundabout such that every time someone pulls off at an exit, someone waiting to join from that road pulls into the gap they left. Now imagine if everyone on the roundabout does an extra 360 before pulling off. The frequency of gaps appearing for people to pull into has more than halved, meaning all queues are moving at least twice as slowly.
A multi-lane roundabout as described by the OP doesn't really change anything: as the traffic doing the 540 trick completes their extra turn, they'll be sat in the lane that the "proper" queue is trying to pull into.
Doing the 360degree+ trick at a roundabout is obviously selfish, something to be reserved for occasional in a massive hurry situation.
I've had roundabout traffic models that initially have about half the queueing/delay that is actually occuring on site and only after adding the indirect route choices has the model validated to the much longer queues actually taking place.
What can happen is that once the queues hit a certain threshold the most selfish people take the indirect route, which makes the queue longer to the extent that slightly less selfish people also start to take the indirect route, etc.
If you don't turn, the angle is 0. If you turn left or right, it's 90, if you go back on yourself, it's 180.
Almost correct. Cannot go anti clockwise arouns the roundabout (unless it is magic) so right turn will be 270deg not 90.
It doesn't affect the overall capacity of the junction or the flow of traffic
I am suprised that even to a lay person it is not obvious that this is not the case.
Just think about yourself at the give way line, you are waiting for a suitable gap in traffic approaching to your right before you can proceed. If knobbers from your approach are doing a 540 then they are adding to the traffic on your right and making you wait longer for a gap.
Not only that but traffic in the lanes adjacent to you are also affected
Not only that but traffic on all the other approaches to the roundabout are affected.
This is the roundabout in question. The left hand lane of the preceding bit of dual carriageway from the M53 feeds the two lanes on the left, the right hand lane of the dual carriageway is deicated for right turn (the road markings and layout is poor). The left hand lane was backed up with vehicles and I decided to turn right, take the third exit and pop down Kingsway as a less congested route as Hoole Road congestion is often the reason for traffic backing up here. As I was turning right I realised that Hoole Road exit was clear. I was indicating right and kept on going. I wasn't in a rush and I don't see that not wanting to waste time by waiting in a pontless queue is the same as being in a rush.
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Erm... 270 would be a left turn after 3/4 of a lap of the roundabout!Almost correct.
I've been a bit provocative because I find it baffling and amusing that people always get so het up about this sort of thing (I'm talking about the caravan driver types mentioned above^). I answered in the way I did first off because I don't commute by car, there aren't any routes I drive regularly enough to know about local conventions which sit outside normal road use. So any scenario in my head is approaching a roundabout for the first time. I also found it hard to imagine coming up to a roundabout, intending to go straight ahead, and not picking the lane with the shortest queue. And if there was a queue of 30 cars in the left hand lane, how would I know from that far away that the cars were queueing to go straight ahead? Are they going left? If you can go straight ahead from either lane, I'm not going to park at the end of a massive queue just in case there's a special local reason here that the right hand lane is only for right hand turns. If it's important enough for special rules, they'll adapt the road markings and/or signs. Probably wouldn't bother with the 360 in that circumstance.
captain, so there is a local rule here? Fair enough. Was the exit clear?
captain, so there is a local rule here? Fair enough. Was the exit clear?
The rule is dictated by the road markings which I assume is national. I am aware that markings are different on different roundabouts which is simply stupid as the rules that used to be found in the Highway Code are thrown out of the window. Being in the right hand lane and unable to go straight on contradicts the Highway Code and give the selfrighteous a hand up to their high horses.
The exit at 180º was clear as was the exit at 270º. If the 180º exit was blocked, I would have followed the original idea and headed for Kingsway.
Ah, so if I understand correctly, the queue wasn't due to the exit road being congested, but to junction capacity being limited. Would you like to explain how using excessive junction capacity in those circumstances compares to middle lane hogging?
Just think about yourself at the give way line, you are waiting for a suitable gap in traffic approaching to your right before you can proceed. If knobbers from your approach are doing a 540 then they are adding to the traffic on your right and making you wait longer for a gap.
Not necessarily. Two lanes entering RAB. LH lane queued RH lane empty.
If nobber goes to front of RH lane then the next time there is a gap it means 2 rather than one car can enter RAB. As nobber goes round the constant stream of traffic entering from the RH lane causing the queue in nobber's entry road will have to stop creating a gap.
So in fact nobber is not stealing anyone else's gap as he shares a gap with a car from the LH lane. As he goes round nobber causes the traffic from the right to stop thus creating another gap. Therefore nobber's lap of the RAB actually shortens the q in the LH lane (in some circumstances).
Therefore nobber's lap of the RAB actually shortens the q in the LH lane (in some circumstances).
Not really, at best it's neutral for the queue and he's just inconvenienced those who are less important than him in the queue - because he's filled whatever gap he created.
sadly the signs that say "use both lanes when queuing" are a step too far for some british motorists. Last week we came across a caravan who felt it his duty to block both lanes to prevent anyone doing so.
He was doing exactly what the signage said! (-:
Doing the 360degree+ trick at a roundabout is obviously selfish, something to be reserved for occasional in a massive hurry situation.
I've held off commenting here as I've been kinda torn. On the one hand it could be perceived to be queue-jumping, on the other it could making use of available unsused roadspace. It's not something I make a habit of, but something I'd entertain given the right circumstances. So basically what Twisty said.
Erm... 270 would be a left turn after 3/4 of a lap of the roundabout!
What madness is this? By that logic, every roundabout junction is a left turn. When did you last turn right off a roundabout in the UK?
interpretation madness. approaching the roundabout which is organising 2 roads meeting at right angles, the choices are 1st exit 90deg, 2nd exit straight on 0deg, 3rd exit 90deg, 4th, back on yourself is 180deg, 1st again is 270.
Ah, so if I understand correctly, the queue wasn't due to the exit road being congested, but to junction capacity being limited. Would you like to explain how using excessive junction capacity in those circumstances compares to middle lane hogging?
Why don't you just do that?
[img]
[/img]You'll have to use your imagination a bit here, but here goes.
The blue line is the centre lane in the photo above and holds the outside lane on the roundabout.
Here comes the imagination bit, move the green line to the junction on the right, they enter the roundabout, hold the inner line and can exit alongside the blue line.
With correct filtering and courtesy both can exit the roundabout and no one is held up.
Perhaps people need to learn how to use roundabouts? 8)
Nothing like middle lane hogging which is a bugbear and illegal.
