[Closed] 44k in debt....

thestabiliser - Member

Basically it's got to be paid back at some point,

no, it doesn't.

cancelled after 30years iirc.

whci gives you less to save and less to spend.

the new system leaves you with £50/month MORE, income.

more to save, more to spend.

You've confused me now, Graham. By saying "mounting fees" and "what the Tories want." I assumed you were complaining about the fees being increased by the Tories, not them being introduced by Labour.

As I said, Labour are just as bad. I'm complaining about the entire system.

IMO education, in all its forms, should be as open to everyone as we can possibly make it. Having lots of smart people in the population is never a bad thing (unless you are a member of an elitist ruling class).

Not in maths presumably?

Comp Sci BSc(Hons)

Maffs ain't a strong point, But logic is. 😀

Unless you're telling me that accomodation around Sheffield is more costly than my nice part of Cambridgeshire, which I sincerely doubt.

Talking of central Cambridge (CB1 post code, 5 mins for rail station).

House next door to me is rented out to Anglia Polytechnic Students (or ARU as it now calls itself). £380 pcm for a tiny room (3 bed house sub divided into 6 rooms!).

Assuming 9 month let for an academic year that's £3,420 per annum.

Just think about all the action that buys you.

Men in their 40's would spend much more to have sex with numerous 18-21yrs on a daily basis.

Thank you Jesters night club.

[quote=thestabiliser ]Basically it's got to be paid back at some point

Actually, no it doesn't.

Those staying on middle incomes being worse affected by paying more for longer.

Depends on your definition of "middle income". The one you seem to be using is well above national average salary, and certainly more than I earn.

IMO education, in all its forms, should be as open to everyone as we can possibly make it. Having lots of smart people in the population is never a bad thing (unless you are a member of an elitist ruling class).

+1. And if they happen to earn a lot of money because of it, they pay more tax, don't they!

somewhatslightlydazed - Its sad that so many people see the only benefit of a good education as a higher earning potential."

Yep, I learnt how to think critically, analyse all of the information. That's why I don't blame the Tories (on tuition fees), plenty of other things they're responsible for, but selling out our kids? We can all thank Tony, Gordon, Jack, Peter, David, Charles, Harriet et al for totally shafting our kids. After all they mortgaged the ****ing schools under PFI. Buy now pay later in all aspects of education FFS!!

thisisnotaspoon » Average graduate satarting sallary in 2013 was £29,500 IIRC

Hmm - maybe I should delete the last 20 years of my CV and apply for graduate jobs. Oh hang on, I've just remembered I'm an engineer.

What's your point? You seem to imply you're earning less than £30k (which I doubt), but being able to call yourself an engineer is worth more? 😕

Personally you can call me a "shit shovelling tosspot" if you pay me £100k to do it.

We can argue about it all we like but if moneysavingexpert Martin Lewis thought the loan terms were better than the old, I don't care how many degrees you lot have got, I'll agree with him!

It's not a real loan. You are not held liable for it.

It's a limited graduate tax. Don't call it a loan.

SD-253 - Member

One daughter university degree 32 £35,000 a year
second daughter no degree £50,000 a year and a company BMW and neither of them will give me any money [b][u]surely the bank of Dad should be paid first[/u][/b].

😆 I hope they pay you back in happiness.

Did you fund them for the entire education? Student loan is not yours nor their money. Loan is a loan.

🙂

Written off when you're 65, so all you've got to do is limit your income to below the following to not pay any back or just hand over 9% of any thing over 16k, so at 23k slary that'd be 9% of 7k p.a. or £60 somethng - can't be arsed to think hard enough to get the number right

How much do I repay?
You will repay 9% of anything you earn over the income threshold.

The UK income threshold is:

•£16,910 before tax per year
•£1,409 before tax per month
•£325 before tax per week

For example, if you earn £1,650 per month, you would pay 9% of £241, or £21 per month to your student loan.

PLUS whatever you had to borrow to live on

Hmm - maybe I should delete the last 20 years of my CV and apply for graduate jobs. Oh hang on, I've just remembered I'm an engineer.

You're way out of date. The cheapest self-catered halls at Sheffield are now more than £4k p.a.

Sheffield was actually pretty cheep for rent, compared to Manchester for example, Crookes was arround 20% less than Fallowfield Road (was that the Manc student area?)

thestabailliser - those are the figures of the old system, not the new system.

[quote=GrahamS ]As I said, Labour are just as bad. I'm complaining about the entire system.
...
Comp Sci BSc(Hons)
Maffs ain't a strong point, But logic is.

You're suggesting that Labour AND the Tories got us into this mess, NOT that it was just one OR the other?

Higher education is one of the biggest scams going. Let's hope online learning can disrupt the whole sector and restore some fairness for the students.
As others have said, some of the top earners I know never went to uni, either learning a trade or starting at a company straight out of school.
I went when fees were £1k a year, but I wouldn't go now.

I'm shocked to note that the average wage is £26.5k. I'm in a technical sales engineering role and only earning £20k. And that with 12 years service in the same company.

Yes, I'm mad. But I only have high school and college qualifications to back up the experience, so getting a job in a different area would be difficult.

thestabiliser - Member

Written off when you're 65,

nope, after 30 years. (iirc)

hand over 9% of any thing over 16k,

£21k.

What I want to know is that ,given the present government inflating the housing market, so the baby boomers can carry on using their properties as cash machines, how on earth is any graduate meant to get on the property ladder, while paying off such enormous debts?

Oh… they're not. They can just pay increased rents to the generation that ****ed them.

binners

Amen, that's the nail on the head.

NO Govt. will let the "free market" correct housing prices, becuase they know that a move like that costs you 13 years in opposition.

[quote=njee20 ]You seem to imply you're earning less than £30k (which I doubt), but being able to call yourself an engineer is worth more?

Well I am right now, and indeed was before, though my pro-rata full time was a little more than that, so though I'd be working more hours I'd be earning more (and probably not going to pick up a job working part time). I attach just as much value to calling myself an engineer as the general population does.

What I want to know is that ,given the present government inflating the housing market, so the baby boomers can carry on using their properties as cash machines, how on earth is any graduate meant to get on the property ladder, while paying off such enormous debts?

Not £44k, but as people have observed time and time again the actual amount is irrelevant, it's a tax, rather than true debt. The repayments aren't based on the outstanding debt, so it's a red herring.

But I bought a house aged 26, with ms njee20, with a 5% deposit and minimal help from parents, in the South East. Yeah ok, been pretty lucky with jobs and that, but IMO it's not as impossible as folk like to make out!

Well I am right now, and indeed was before, though my pro-rata full time was a little more than that, so though I'd be working more hours I'd be earning more. I attach just as much value to calling myself an engineer as the general population does.

So what was your point? Are you annoyed graduates earn as much as you?

It's also a known fact that engineers place a far higher value on their title than the general public, hence they have to remind people "I'm an engineer" at every available juncture. Working in an LBS taught me as much, and it's frequently reinforced on here. It's the only profession where folk seem to feel they must qualify their knowledge without provocation. Insecurity?

You only go to uni if you are studying for science, technology or medical related degree(s).

You don't need that many people to study social science degrees only to end up working as sales person or doing administrative bureaucratic work.

😀

You only go to uni if you are studying for science, technology or medical related degree(s).

In an ideal world, yes, but now even fairly pedestrian jobs require a degree, such as in marketing, consultancy, or business development. The system is rigged in favour of the higher education institutions.

Ooops. I concede the repayments threshold bit.

Still shit though, say if you earned a career average of 35k you'd pay back over 50k so you'd have paid all your working life and still not cleared the debt at 6% as it is at the mo according to the site (3% above base rate). OK inflation would take care of that to some extent I guess - thinking as I'm typing. but watching that come out of your salary every month as your grandchildren are setting off for secondary school would grate.

Meh. You never see it. It comes out of your paye before you get it. All it means is you get paid a few hundred quid less a year. I'm never expecting to pay it off, but I have no problem with the payments. I just view it as a tax to hopefully fund other people through the system, and hopefully they in turn will fund later students

You don't need that many people to study social science degrees only to end up working as sales person or administrative work.

Anyone going to such degrees now really do need their heads checking.

It is an industry- back in 94 we had 15-20hours a week. Now I understand it can be down to as little as 9hrs!

[quote=njee20 ]So what was your point? Are you annoyed graduates earn as much as you?

Surprised it's quite that much, though I was well aware my salary hadn't kept up with inflation and the jobs I'm looking at (which require all that experience) aren't significantly higher.

<do not rise to the engineer bait, do not rise...>

But shouldn't WE be voting for our kids futures?

Yes. But "we" don't.

= :87(

Not got a problem with them myself.

Not paid a penny back on my 3 mortgage loans from the early 90's and have never considered them a debt just an extra tax threshold. I'm going part time in the next couple of months and they expire in 2019 so chances are that I never will pay them back.

njee20 - are you seriously suggesting that a graduate finishing this summer, could now even contemplate buying a property in the South East of England, with no help from the bank of mum and dad?

What percentage do you reckon? Have a look at the property prices now, then work out what deposit you'd need, then what you'd need to be earning to service it. Thats assuming you'd be looking to take on more debt on top of the £44 hanging round your neck already.

I reckon it'd be all but impossible

badnewz - Member

In an ideal world, yes, but now even fairly pedestrian jobs require a degree, such as in marketing, consultancy, or business development. The system is rigged in favour of the higher education institutions.

I know a recent graduate who has a Bachelor and a Masters degrees who is now working as Data Input clerk for a bureaucratic organisation. I mean do you need a degree for this? My lord!

hora - Member

Anyone going to such degrees now really do need their heads checking.

It is an industry- back in 94 we had 15-20hours a week. Now I understand it can be down to as little as 9hrs!

Or sharing a job with another person at minimum wage rate. 😯

are you seriously suggesting that a graduate finishing this summer, could now even contemplate buying a property in the South East of England, with no help from the bank of mum and dad?

I can't see wages increasing, so the disconnect between the level of debt and ability to pay it off will increase even further.

People are wailing about never paying it all back. Why is this a problem? Surely it's a good thing?

FWIW I am not in favour of fees at all, but the current system is not as bad as people are making out.

I can't see wages increasing, so the disconnect between the level of debt and [s]ability[/s] requirement to pay it off will increase even further.

People are wailing about never paying it all back. Why is this a problem? Surely it's a good thing?

njee20 - are you seriously suggesting that a graduate finishing this summer, could now even contemplate buying a property in the South East of England, with no help from the bank of mum and dad?

What percentage do you reckon? Have a look at the property prices now, then work out what deposit you'd need, then what you'd need to be earning to service it. Thats assuming you'd be looking to take on more debt on top of the £44 hanging round your neck already.

I reckon it'd be all but impossible

Not straight away no, but again, I've just done it.

Both me and ms njee20 graduated in 2008, got a 'real' job in Feb 2009, moved into rented house together in late-2009, bought a house last summer. Minimal help from either set of parents. I've just done it, I don't need to look at property prices! FWIW, we paid £250k for our house in Sussex with a £12,500 deposit.

Again, the actual amount of the £44k is irrelevant. It's the same monthly repayment whether it's £44 or £440,000, it's a tick box on the mortgage affordability assessment. The overall amount we pay is less, but the monthly payments are more as the thresholds are lower.

I know a recent graduate who has a Bachelor and a Masters degrees who is now working as Data Input clerk for a bureaucratic organisation. I mean do you need a degree for this? My lord!

I wonder how many Grads did it as their parents really wanted them to go to Uni. They did it and came out thinking 'I didnt do that for me and look at me now'.

All with the best intentions but I imagine in most 6th form colleges etc its a bit 'sheep' too. The thing to do, everyones heads down racing so fast to get into a Uni that its seen as 'arrived/against peers'.

Only a few (with good/getting great grades) will stop and think 'hang on, is this really for me'.

thestabiliser - Member

...say if you earned a career average of 35k..

you can consider yourself very fortunate and successful, well done you!

You only go to uni if you are studying for science, technology or medical related degree(s).

So what about writers, painters, philosophers, designers, historians, mathematicians, actors, musicians, economists, lawyers, teachers, linguists, geographers, ...

Where should they go for an education?

My company only recruits grads with 1st class degrees, why?, because there are so many in the market we can!!!

We should really increase that to having 3 languages as-well.

Not read all the responses but having had the experience of living in different countries and different education systems, the £44k mark is not that big.

A university degree in most countries is something that is hard earned and not taken for granted and when the UK was in the situation of having free tuition fees this was not the case.

Also, if you look for example at the US, a 3 year degree is unheard of, most degrees are much longer. People will work a lot harder to be able to afford an education - working nights, weekends, summer and winter holidays as well as applying for grants and bursuries that are available.

In the UK, a lot of people used to take out student loans because they could, not because they needed too. They would take out loans to party, travel, buy a car etc without even considering working whilst at university. They would piss the student loan up the wall by going out 5 times a week on the beers. I think it is time for a lot of people to wake up and understand what a higher education is all about, what is worth is and that it is not something that should be just gifted to you.

I attach just as much value to calling myself an engineer as the general population does.

That would be none then! 😉

hence they have to remind people "I'm an engineer" at every available juncture.

Really, can't say anyone I know cares (and I know a lot of Engineers).

My company only recruits grads with 1st class degrees, why?

Because they want their employees to be desperate try-hards with few social skills? 😉

(Desmond and proud!)