[Closed] 21 dead in ultramarathon

That's awful, truly tragic.

🥺

I find that staggering and tragic in equal measure. I’d be very interested to know just how much the RO’s took the forecast in to account (i.e. did they have a bad weather alternative route and not deem it necessary or just not even take the forecast in to account at all). Also you’d expect, in the UK at least any event of that type would require a very extensive personal kit list, which would require a mandatory check at the start. Did that happen too or was it not required?

Not to change the horrific nature of the outcome but really feel it perhaps could have been avoided.

Also you’d expect, in the UK at least any event of that type would require a very extensive personal kit list, which would require a mandatory check at the start. Did that happen too or was it not required?

I've only ever had a kit check once in a UK ultra, and it was 17 miles in, pretty pointless.

We've had some mad ninja storms recently, even at our low levels, very difficult to predict, and tbh I don't know if I'd really want to run with a full mountain kit on my back.

Chris Smith just showed how easily this can happen, tragically.

Thousands of people run in the mountains and don't die, sometimes we need to just accept that such horrible consequences can occur, thankfully very rarely.

Edit - I'm not disagreeing with you TOL btw, I do think there's a load of folks that just don't understand how easy it is to get into bother, witness all the usual suspects on here who give it all the same nonsense when storms hit 'its a bit breezy' etc.

I find that staggering and tragic in equal measure. I’d be very interested to know just how much the RO’s took the forecast in to account (i.e. did they have a bad weather alternative route and not deem it necessary or just not even take the forecast in to account at all). Also you’d expect, in the UK at least any event of that type would require a very extensive personal kit list, which would require a mandatory check at the start. Did that happen too or was it not required?

Whilst there may be some finger pointing to be done, that's just completely speculative.

Weather isn't always predictable, the alternative is the race unfortunately meant 21 people we're on the same hill at the same time when the same unpredictable weather came in. At which time a foil blanket and bothy shelter potentially isn't going to save you.

I’d agree that things are unpredictable and that even with excellent planning bad things happen in the mountains. I was speculating what the RO measures were, not necessarily saying they were inadequate.

And I’d agree nobeer that a kit check during the race is a waste of time. My most recent experience was in the HPM (kind of gone off running since then) involved a very thorough kit check requiring everything out on the table for the RO to check off one by one, down to proving taped seams and spare head torch worked from memory.

I recall a Lake District OMM which had horrendous weather which made national headlines for risking lives but in the end I seem to remember participants were all fine if not a little damp.

That's horrendous and there'll surely be questions asked by those with a more realistic knowledge of what is reasonable for that ultra event based on the area, participant experience etc.

My brother was in the Lake District OMM when they were all pulled off the hill and 'evacuated' to Cockermouth iirc. I was marooned in my van in Stonethwaite.

He said it was pretty wild up top but they were more than happy with carrying on, had appropriate kit and options to 'get out' if it got too much, but obviously were all pulled out.

I expect that the severe weather at this event in China was somewhat harsher than what we experience in the UK, so difficult to draw comparisons. Maybe the race regs in terms of essential kit were less stringent? There’s also such a good range of quality lightweight kit these days that even if you get caught out, you can at least stay warm and dry

Someone on the running thread on LFGSS suggests it was an accident waiting to happen:

https://www.lfgss.com/comments/16007839/

Apparently some were blown into the river, no amount of kit can prevent that. Sad news indeed.

I was thinking about this on my ride today and also planning what I'm taking on my next trip. I always over pack and take things "just in case" I'm no good at being too cold and wet. I'm always amazed but how minimal some people can go and I try and reduce but I can't. Usually get back and there's a couple of unused items but I still take them next time.

There’s also such a good range of quality lightweight kit these days that even if you get caught out, you can at least stay warm and dry

I'll heartily disagree with this, sorry.

Interested to understand why you disagree? nbitf

The gear you'd need to carry to sit out a white out on the Cairngorm plateau frinstance isn't lightweight or conducive to running IMO.

One of the experienced guys on our MRT always poses the hour question, sit stationary for an hour and see how you feel, is your kit up to the job?. In most situations MRT isn't getting to you for a few hours more than that.

I've ran a fair few hill races, kit requirements are generally pretty lax, which is fine for an hour or two that many of the races take.

I've no idea of the geography of where this race was, but it sounds like it was in quite a high altitude and pretty rural area.

It's tragic, but I'm not gonna sit in judgement of it tbh.

Thoughts to all, a terrible situation all round.

I’d agree that ultralight running kit is usually not up to having to sit out a storm in. Even carrying spare clothing and putting on everything you can get very cold very quickly especially if you’ve been doing some high intensity activity like running as you’re usually pretty sweaty.

But you can mitigate against the risk to some extent by carrying spare clothes, gloves, proper survival bag, food and the like. And, frequent well equipped checkpoints with decent shelter, first aid, means of heating up water to do hot food and drink.

Aye, agreed, but it sounds like this was a pretty horrendous weather event to be fair.

We seem to be assuming that kit specified for events over here will be the same over there, and that runners over there will be able to afford it.

Hopefully lessons will be learnt

I’ve ran a fair few hill races, kit requirements are generally pretty lax, which is fine for an hour or two that many of the races take.

I think this catches folk out sometimes, the difference between a race and a personal run over the same terrain. I'd usually take a good bit more kit doing a race route on my own, even at the same time of year. Unsurprisingly, longer races tend to be a bit more stringent about the kit.

People have died of exposure on French ultras with rigorous kit lists and back up from the Gendarmes. Take thin people whose energy reserves are low and put them in extreme conditions and some risk dying of exposure.

Check out the number of years the TMB has got to its full length, not many. The number of athletes allowed to do the last climb of the Norseman - my friend Bjorn was the only one the year he won it. The number of ski-alpinisme races that get cut short - we got to the top of le Pic d'Annie twice in I can't remember how many participations. I've seen a guy have his bike washed away in a triathlon, ridden though 15cm of hail, felt the elctricity from lightening on a triathlon swim, lost a fellow adventure racer to drowning on the raft leg... .

It's tragic but having been through some fairly extreme conditions in races I can see that it wouldn't have needed to be much more extreme to put many of the competitors in life threatening situations. So sympathy for all concerned rather than finger pointing.

So sympathy for all concerned rather than finger

Totally. Really feel for the organisers, they'll be in an awful place right now.