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20mph speed limit v...
 

[Closed] 20mph speed limit vs pollution???

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Or maybe we should all drive around with a person walking in front of us waving a red flag.

An aside but that's pretty much what happens on construction sites when vehicles are around workers, yet those same 4 axle tipper trucks then make their way through crowded city streets frequently blocking pedestrian crossings etc etc. Also think of the enhanced visibility, low, cabs that have been used for years on Bin lorries (because they're in close proximity to people working), while other pedestrians.

cars with instantaneous consumption readouts in different gears and different speeds.

i've not looked at the instantaneous consumption (i took that off the display as it's pretty useless) but our new petrol 7speed DSG volkswagen is presuambely programmed for optimum fuel consumption/emissions and heads straight for the higher gears. I'm pretty sure it can be in 4th at 20mph (but of course it can shift down in an instant when you call for more speed).


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 12:10 pm
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cars will be electric and road side pollution will minimal.

Not really - not least because about 50% of particulate pollution comes from brakes and tyres. Regenerative braking helps a little but electric and hybrid cars are heavier than their ICE equivalents at the moment (and that's not likely to change) which offsets the benefit (as i understand it).

typical driving cycles associated with slow driving/school runs.

and you get back to the answer being fewer cars, not slightly less polluting cars. 80% of UK car trips are under 5 miles, 23% are less than 1 mile, average occupancy is below 1.5 people.


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 12:17 pm
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...typical driving cycles associated with slow driving/school runs.

The reason for many school runs is that parents are terrified to let their children out alone because of the danger created by the traffic.


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 12:48 pm
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Regenerative braking helps a lot, Simon. Take a look at the front wheels of the next Zoé you see and compare with other vehicles for brake dust. At the current wear rate I doubt I'll ever need to change the pads, and if I do it'll be because the discs have rusted. At the point the road brakes start working, < 7-10kmh, there's not much kinetic energy left to dissipate. However, max torque at low speed means the front tyres have a hard life, again when you see a Zoé have a look, the front tyres will probably look feathered due to rapid starts.


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 1:14 pm
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and you get back to the answer being fewer cars, not slightly less polluting cars.

Yep, the same answer for most environmental issues. Reduce flights to one per person per year and the pollution caused by aircraft is a fraction of what it was without making any other changes
Reduce the worlds population by 50% and a whole load of environmental issues will be massively reduced. Of course nobody is ever going to do that as it is too hard, goes against teh wishes of capitalism and so on and will never happen.


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 2:13 pm
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Could we make it two flights per year for those that don't want to travel over Hogmanay?


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 2:15 pm
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Regenerative braking helps a lot, Simon.

Hmmm. https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2017/03/particle-pollution-from-electric-cars-could-be-worse-than-from-diesel-ones/

Several readers of E&T have questioned Roy Harrison’s comments, based on the fact that they do not appear to take into account the use by electric vehicles of regenerative braking. Professor Harrison responds:

“I am pleased to set the record straight on this issue. I made it clear when talking to E&T that I was basing my comments on a paper by VRJH Timmers and PAJ Achten, published recently in the journal Atmospheric Environment, ‘Non-exhaust PM emissions from electric vehicles’. Timmers and Achten report the weight of a number of electric vehicles in comparison with their internal combustion engine equivalent. In all cases, the weight of the electric vehicle was greater, the range being from 14.6 per cent to 28.7 per cent heavier. Non-exhaust emissions from road vehicles arise from brake wear, tyre and road surface wear, and resuspension of road surface dusts. All are in general terms enhanced by increased vehicle weight. Timmers and Achten acknowledge the benefits of regenerative brakes on electric vehicles and made a conservative estimate of zero brake-wear emissions for electric vehicles. Hence, their claim that electric vehicle particulate matter emissions are comparable to those of conventional vehicles was based upon the greater tyre and road surface wear, and resuspension associated with a greater vehicle weight. Some electric vehicles are lighter than their internal combustion engine counterparts; consequently the issue is likely to be considerably more complex than suggested by this research.”

So, the answer, as ever, is "its a bit more complex than that". I suspect your Zoe is really good but a Tesla, or Hybrid Range Rover or Porsche not so much.

I'm intrigued by our new (petrol) VW Caddy braking "Regenerative braking is based upon the idea that vehicles aiming to save energy should attempt to recover as much of it as possible. Regenerative braking means that the energy which is usually lost as a result of braking is, instead, stored. This can then be used in starting or accelerating the van" and to know if this has any material impact on brake wear


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 3:41 pm
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I'm all for 20mph in cities. You rarely end up travelling faster than 20mph overall anyway.


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 4:16 pm
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Ok I'll accept that most efficient speed is more than I thought. But it is less than 70 km/h

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2109539/Fuel-prices-Slower-driving-can-save-motorists-500-a-year.html


 
Posted : 06/06/2019 5:55 pm
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