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I’m trying not to be too optimistic but it’s looking very much like a rerun of 2017.
Conservatives largest party and Labour a distant second? I'd hate to see what your pessimistic outlook is!
Moving on to Juncker’s interview with Katya Adler – ‘and he said he did not think Labour’s pledge to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement if it wins a majority in the general election was a realistic approach – although this would be an issue for his successor’.
Sure, he’s on his way out but I doubt he is talking out of turn.
nah Juncker wants a brexit deal done as part of his legacy, and he doesnt speak for the council of ministers- Im sure theyd be very pleased with that
as for what a Labour brexit would look like......... a lot of fluff & drama but theyll never get to stop FOM & keep SM acces they want, so it will be a Norway deal
which could be signed off far quicker as its off the shelf
which would be an interesting referendum vs remain!
as the freemarket share ownership has failed to deliver shares into the hands of the many as Thatcher era propaganda promised, this policy increases to percentage of shares owned by the many from 3 to 13%.
So you agree they are going to sequester 10pc of all uk firms over 250fte. A policy so insane that there are people in this thread who don't even believe in it.
2) Whatever Jeremy has planned it is so far left of Sweden/Denmark it can’t be done in the EU
This. They have a policy of preventing the inevitable capital capital flight with controls which are incompatible with EU free movement of capital.
these swing voters that count and lying surely puts them off?
Yes, but not nearly as much as having 10pc of their pension confiscated.
whatever Corbyn has in his head is obviously not that.
But as we know, Labour party policy is not set by the leader...
When's the EHRC report due?
Conservatives largest party and Labour a distant second? I’d hate to see what your pessimistic outlook is!
If Labour can match their MP count from 2017, and both SNP and LibDems can increase their MP count, if only by single figures, then that is a far far better result than Johnson getting the majority he has called this election to try and get. PC, Greens and independents might also grab a few Tory seats if people get smart with their votes. This is pretty much the best result we can hope for, and currently still looking very unlikely… let’s hope the next few weeks see that change… there are nuggets of current news that you cling on to for hope at least.
But as we know, Labour party policy is not set by the leader…
TBH leader is like a sheep leading the goats in this case but not what the UK needs right now (is it?). In terms of election though he has lost millions of voters (it's a bit academic for me as LibDems are way ahead locally) but many traditional soft Labour voters (i.e. possible swing voters) have just melted away.
TBH leader is like a sheep leading the goats in this case but not what the UK needs right now (is it?)
Labour party has a democratic process. This is how it's always been isn't it? It seems reasonable to me, I'd rather that than one nutjob ruling the whole place.
Sure, momentum have dragged the party leftwards but then we're back to the problem with FPTP as most people don't have their own political home do they? We all have to house-share.
A policy so insane that there are people in this thread who don’t even believe in it.
You're determined to interpretet the reports you've read in the worst possible light. It's not even published policy yet, there isn't even a manifesto. Hold your fire.
Hold your fire.
So we ignore anything said ‘till we read the manifestos? That’ll mean no critiques of anything Brexit Party related then… as they’ll be avoiding writing anything down in a manifesto, I suspect.
oh dear despite all the talk of cleaning up politics & parliament & a new speaker etc
this election is setting a very bad tone so far
tories & their brexit have driven off many of the moderates from the Tories & many of the women that cameron made such an effort to bring on board (momemntum have done similar in Labour, but theyre just not as good at metaphorically knifing their own as tories)
Bridgen jumping to Moggs defence when he really shouldnt was a good example of this tribalism trumping compassion or indeed common sense.
Leading Welsh Tory quits for lying about his pal sabotaging a rape trial
Telegraph front page comparing Corbyn to Stalin killing 6 million Kulaks
Cleverly running away from kay burley & Tory lapdog guido immediately leaping to his defence- lying that he was at the time talking to wannabe Hopkins on LBC
Tories editing that starmer video has now seen this.....
Tories editing that starmer video has now led to parodies too
https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1192053989921173504
Labour party has a democratic process. This is how it’s always been isn’t it? It seems reasonable to me, I’d rather that than one nutjob ruling the whole place.
It's a form of democracy ... and ignoring the union block votes for now it doesn't seem supportable as a way to run a country. I'm guessing you too remember the 70's...? but equally the Soviet union or places like Cuba, Libya soon dispatched with democracy in order to get anything done.
It's perhaps sad but human nature seems to get in the way ...
You’re determined to interpretet the reports you’ve read in the worst possible light. It’s not even published policy yet, there isn’t even a manifesto. Hold your fire.
That is what most of the electorate will do....
ctually I think much of the electorate that labour are aiming at will see the policy as positive.
You’re determined to interpretet the reports you’ve read in the worst possible light. It’s not even published policy yet, there isn’t even a manifesto. Hold your fire.
I'm not talking about "reports", and I'm not interpreting anything. You can hear it yourself on the link above. It's been announced at the same time as "Warm Homes for all" and the "Nationalization at a Fair rate" policy. You can hear RLB quizzed on it so there's no room for misunderstanding.
The FT have run analysis on it.
...but let's just remember for future reference that this policy is so mental that when they first heard about it several people literally didn't even believe it.
Conservatives largest party and Labour a distant second?
In 2017 labour had a much larger majority to overhaul and were very much on the back foot at the start of the campaign. It's very different this time. Quite frankly I'm equally surprised at the slickness of labour's early campaign and the chaos of the tories. Even the media have been broadly positive about labour and scathing towards the tories and the equal coverage campaign rules haven't even kicked in yet.
OOB - yes the FT ran an analysis as have others and its nothing like what you keep on claiming.
What’s all this about?
https://twitter.com/sallygimson/status/1188507534019235845?s=21
https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1192064883602395136?s=21
OOB - one thing among many you are ( deliberatly?) misunderstanding is that the Labour government will pay for these shares not simply take them. so of course that negates most of your rather hysterical argument
All we have at the moment is an outline of the plan. No details.
Labour government will pay for these shares not simply take them.
Phew, that's great news!
Linky?
OOB – one thing among many you are ( deliberatly?) misunderstanding is that the Labour government will pay for these shares not simply take them. so of course that negates most of your rather hysterical argument
All we have at the moment is an outline of the plan. No details.
Because one way or another that staggering amount of money has to come from somewhere...if its real or be magically printed if not.
The UK is one of the worlds poorest countries, our per capita debt is staggering... where will that money come from.
The UK is one of the worlds poorest countries, our per capita debt is staggering
Poor countries tend to have low per capita debt. Let’s not have another diversionary economics lecture in this thread, and just except that part of your statement is a bit odd.
The next chapter in libdem fantasy polling, this time they're misattributing their dodgy bar charts to Yougov. You couldn't make it up.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1192044683742056449?s=20
I cannot find it now OOB. I thought you had missed that bit. They are offering a fair price tho rather than a market price which you will not like. It was in one of the bits of analysis in the guardian
this is why I kept on asking you to read up on it.
I thought the UK was one of the worlds richest countries! 7th or 8th is it not in terms of GDP per capita
They are offering a fair price tho rather than a market price which you will not like.
No, they are offering a 'fair' price set by parliament for the industries they are totally nationalising. (Water, rail etc.) Pienaar was all over RLB on that because international law requires governments to pay the *market* price, not an arbitrary value. RBL stuck to her guns that it wouldn't be the market rate, it wold be a 'Fair' rate but had no way to square that circle. (Because there isn't a way to square that circle.)
The 10pc of shares policy is a completely different policy.
I thought the UK was one of the worlds richest countries! 7th or 8th is it not in terms of GDP per capita
From memory it's 33rd in GDP per capita.
EDIT: I googled, 39th.
What’s all this about?
I'm going to find out! Heading back home the 'law very shortly. Interesting - she was a very odd choice!
Certainly the early signs look good for labour and the tories are reacting to events and having to apologise for multiple things. Tories are certainly on the back foot.
Doubt it, sadly.
My wife is STILL a Tory voter, despite my best efforts, because she responds to every example of Tory sleaze, dishonesty and hypocrisy with 'well you would say that, wouldn't you' or 'yes, but they're all at it' or 'you're just saying that because that's what it says in the Guardian'.
Sad thing is, she's not exactly wrong, I don't have the time or inclination to trawl through all the right wing sources and papers to prove that Labour/SNP/Greens aren't also lying, or misrepresenting, or contradicting themselves.
This is why I think this sort of stuff will only change the minds of a very fringe number of supporters, e.g. those open-minded enough and diligent enough to do their research. The rest of us will absolutely be led by our media source of choice, which is why politics in this country will remain broken until all media outlets are forced to abide to a code of truth, completeness and factualness, which in turn will probably make them all very dull reading.
If we can't change the media, maybe we should only allow people to vote if they can prove they actually have some comprehension of the issues, but I doubt even that would overcome good old fashioned tribal instinct. At the end of the day my wife votes Tory because she's from blue Perthshire and her family have always voted Tory, nothing will ever change that.
OOB – yes the FT ran an analysis as have others and its nothing like what you keep on claiming.
LOL - Outofbreaths analysis is the same as the FTs, quit talking bullshit.
There is a simple overarching message here:
The Tories have ran out of time, steam and ideas. That is the resting place of neolibralism after 40 years of car-boot economics.
Labour have loads of great new potential policies - some of them tricky - but worth a shot as the Tories are rummaging around in a political black hole, and there is nothing left other than to lie and go on offensive.
The Eton school bully is cornered.
Kick them out.
I thought the UK was one of the worlds richest countries! 7th or 8th is it not in terms of GDP per capita
Depends how you define rich I guess, you could earn 10k a month, so 'rich', but if your monthly outgoing, (servicing debt, living costs etc) are 9.8k per month, you don't look so wealthy any more.
Can you elaborate on those a bit? I know its tedious providing evidence for your smears but rather than just repeating rubbish why not provide a serious argument.
The Stalin apologists he keeps as company and his backers attacks on people like Tom Watson. Those are to name a few.
The Tories have ran out of time, steam and ideas. That is the resting place of neolibralism after 40 years of car-boot economics.
People like you keep saying this, but in comparison to countries that have tried alternatives to neoliberalism in the past 40 years we are doing remarkably well in terms of inequality, living standards and corruption. Don’t bother holding Scandinavia up as an alternative model, they are neoliberal with a smattering of socialism thrown in - Labours current plans are further left than their model.
I've listened to the RLB interview. She talks about buying back shares but it's the context of nationalising industries rather than 10% employee ownership. She explicitly says that they will be bought back (not confiscated, because that's illegal and she acknowledged that); and the price will be set by parliament not the market rate. Presumably that's because if they were bought at market rate traders would know it was coming, hoard them, push the price up and make a killing at the public's expense.
Still not seeing your issue. Pienaar starts talking about confiscation to the pundit at the end of the shop, but that's not what was discussed in the interview.
So have we gone from trying to argue the case for asset seizures to doing #fakenews now?
Mefty and Ninfan etc would be pissing themselves with laughter if they weren’t banned.
That is the resting place of neolibralism after 40 years of car-boot economics.
Care to name a country you regard as successful that doesn't employ [1] liberal economics?
[1] Not sure what term to use here.
I thought the UK was one of the worlds richest countries! 7th or 8th is it not in terms of GDP per capita
Spending does not make a country wealthy if it has to import more than it exports.... (regardless depending which measure we are about 20th) however our net exports are negative and have been since 1989
It isn't rocket science ... our spending exceeds our income and regardless of what we do internally ... it's like our family spending more than we earn.... if I buy Jnr a new bike on credit it increases our "GDP" and increases our debt and I have to pay back the interest ... I don't see why this seems so difficult to understand?
martin hutch ^^^ re momentum twitter post about johnson & guppy; you do know the call from guppy took place in 1990?
If you're trying to make link between Johnson's Ofsted comments and a phone call from 30 years ago it's tenuous at best.
I'm no fan of the Tories but the momentum post is pathetic.
I’ve listened to the RLB interview. She talks about buying back shares but it’s the context of nationalising industries rather than 10% employee ownership. She explicitly says that they will be bought back (not confiscated, because that’s illegal and she acknowledged that); and the price will be set by parliament not the market rate. Presumably that’s because if they were bought at market rate traders would know it was coming, hoard them, push the price up and make a killing at the public’s expense.
Still not seeing your issue. Pienaar starts talking about confiscation to the pundit at the end of the shop, but that’s not what was discussed in the interview.
It was put to her at 34:37 and was the promt to the discussion about capital flight.
The Nationalization plans are a completely different issue and far less scary AFAIC.
The Stalin apologists he keeps as company and his backers attacks on people like Tom Watson. Those are to name a few.
No I am looking for evidence of his, as you claimed, authoritarianism. You have failed to actually produce anything beyond yet more vague smears. Care to try again with some actual clear evidence?
Depends how you define rich I guess, you could earn 10k a month, so ‘rich’, but if your monthly outgoing, (servicing debt, living costs etc) are 9.8k per month, you don’t look so wealthy any more.
Since 1989 we have been spending a bit over 10k/mo EVERY month .... and sticking the difference on credit.
Care to name a country you regard as successful that doesn’t employ [1] liberal economics?
You really need to be more precise than that. Its an unclear term which covers a wide range of variants. Once we have your definition then can see which dont match it.
I suspect unless you are going for so vague as to be meaningless China, South Korea, Singapore amongst others.
stevextc - bit of a humble brag there about your spending
It was put to her at 34:37 and was the promt to the discussion about capital flight.
Pienaar mentioned they'd need £300bn for "expropriation" of shares, and she then didn't mention it in her response, she talked about the costing of their housing upgrade programme.
Not sure it counts as expropriation if you're paying for it, or if it ends up in private hands not government, but I dunno.
Mefty and Ninfan etc would be pissing themselves with laughter if they weren’t banned.
This is only partially true.
raybanwomble
Member
Don’t bother holding Scandinavia up as an alternative model, as I'll be proved wrong