we are clearly not selfish and would like life to be better for the less fortunate.
Unless you both make significant donations to the Treasury in accordance with what you think you ought to be contributing there's zero cause for the mutual back slapping.
'Member
A wee theory I’ve built- its Johnson’s team that are doing the recent leaks, via Corbyn.
Nah, it is the Russkies again.'
No, its Johnson 🙂 that Russian thing has already been discredited.
that Russian thing has already been discredited.
Linky?
I’m in Fife where the SNP beat the LibDems by just 2 votes in 2017
My work mate lives in Fife in Stephen Gethin's constituency - on the day of the 2017 election he asked me who they should vote for as they weren't 100% sure what was best to deny the Tories. I suggested that in that constituency probably the SNP. That evening he and his partner both voted SNP.
Next morning the look on his face was priceless
I was 50 this year and have never voted conservative, and hope to christ I never have to. But, and it's a big but, suppose one day something worse comes along and looks like it might take your seat? Would you tactically vote tory to keep out farage?
I remember growing up through the Thatcher years, the national misery of it all, the degradation of communities and the massive increase in personal greed and wealth. The endless Steve Bell cartoons. On a personal level my family was torn about by government policy, and probably never recovered. Toward the end of those years I worked in areas decimated by the destruction of industry, god it was pitiful even to someone's eyes who had seen nothing better. And then, and then...the Blair years of hope and prospects and what seemed like a fair crack of life's whip. Things worked, life seemed sensible and smoking got banned in public places.
And then the stupid bastard took the yankee dollar and ****ed it all.
Lets not forget wee Gordie though, even then there was hope and what I think was respect. I didn't listen to the radio on the way to work and think 'my god I am actually Sarah Connor'. Michael Gove didn't exist in that world. We laughed at ghouls like Duncan Smith and Mogg because that is what they were. Now, they have the wheel.
I'm a moderate, left of centre kind of guy but it seems to me that by and large I have been a loser in my short time on earth. Not on a personal scale - I have a nice life that I wouldn't change - but on a geopolitical scale. Despite everything, all the evidence to the contrary, vast swathes of the country can't get enough of being treated badly, disdainfully and without respect.
I reject that from anybody, let alone a Government, and so should you.
Years ago I found myself by chance having breakfast with a random priest in a cafe. I am the least religious guy on the street but I do enjoy a blather now and then. Anyway, I have no recollection of what he said apart from one thing -
'when everything else has gone, you will always have hope'.
Opinium have a very different poll
No movement at all for any party in well over a week?
Balls I say.
So it’s not an exclusively English/Welsh/Irish problem by any means.
You might want to read the post above mine
Near 50 and never more anti labour. If I was poor and/or northern maybe, or expect the state to support me, but im none of these. Boris it is 🙂
Wipe yer tears haters!!
Wipe yer tears haters!!
50 years old, and using words expected out of the mouths from spoiled amarican teenage brats, definitely a tory.
No movement at all for any party in well over a week?
Balls I say.
The polls mean nothing this time. There's no accurate way to deduce seats from the numbers.
We'll find out next Friday and not before.
Let’s hope daveylad’s luck doesn’t change, and he never expects the state to support him. Don’t one in three of us get cancer though? I wouldn’t take the risk and vote assuming that it would never be me that misfortune would fall upon. The tears may yet come for you daveylad, and we would genuinely feel for you, and be happy to pay our share for the NHS to be there for you.
We're 99% certain to sell-up and move to Scotland in the new year - even my wife who is English wants to see the back of this shit-show. She's spent 15 years as carer for her disabled mother and has got nothing to show for it - no money, no pension. I'm 55, spent the last 18 months trying to get a business off the ground, spent a fair chunk of my redundancy and its dire - nobody is spending any money and that isn't going to change soon. We can release enough equity from our house sale to buy a cheaper house, top-up my pension and at least move somewhere nice where half the population aren't small-minded, self-entitled dicks.
Mrs Binners is very proud today. She’s a Wigan Lass and this is where she’s from ‘welcoming’ Joris Bohnson
Boris Johnson abandons Lancashire visit after protesters take over towns high street
Scuttling off back to London with his tail between his legs 😂
we would genuinely feel for you, and be happy to pay our share for the NHS to be there for you.
So would a Tory voter, so would a Tory Government. So would someone voting for pretty much any other party in the UK.
The Conservatives have been running the NHS for ~44 years of its ~71 year of History. (Labour have been running it for ~27 years.) Every time there's an election we're been told the Torys will sell of the NHS and every time they don't.
Labour are spending a pittance on the NHS - 3bn more than is already planned when they had 58bn spare! (We know they had 58bn spare because they were later able to allocate it to WASPI women.) So with 61bn sitting about un-allocated they chose to spend only 3bn on the NHS:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-labours-nhs-rescue-plan
Crying wolf doesn't even work - as things stand 36pc of people think the Torys have the best HS policy against 34pc who think Labour do.
Mrs Binners is very proud today. She’s a Wigan Lass and this is where she’s from ‘welcoming’ Joris Bohnson
"Cakes now being packed away"
🙂
Labour are spending a pittance on the NHS – 3bn more than is already planned
The issue is that Johnson is lying he won't spend that money
And labours money back to councils could ease the burden on the nhs
somewhere nice where half the population aren’t small-minded, self-entitled dicks.
Whereas in Scotland 38% are small-minded, self-entitled dicks. If avoiding Leavers is the objective move to Cambridge.
...and since the vast majority of Scottish seats have gone to no-deal Leavers (of the UK) aren't you just going somewhere with even more Nationalist small-minded, self-entitled dicks?
If you'd said were going for the scenery and the lower population density I'd agree with you.
The issue is that Johnson is lying he won’t spend that money
If my reading of the link is correct that isn't relative to Johnson's promise, that's relative to
the current planned spending.
Either way Labour are promising a pittance on the NHS - unless you think the current funding is pretty must adequate it's fairly obvious that 3bn is not enough - healthcare inflation is brutal and we know Labour tens of billions up their sleeve which they chose to leave unspent rather than give to the NHS.
So would a Tory voter,
True.
so would a Tory Government.
Have you read anything written by any of the current government about how provision of, and payment for, healthcare should be transformed in future. Go do so now. This is not just another Tory Government about to be elected, and people who have voted Tory in the past only have a few days to wake the **** up and realise that.
Holy shit. Just got word from MIL! She’s ****ing livid. And so am I. She was canvassed at her door by someone (after talking) claiming to be (or represent) her local ‘LibDem’ candidate. Left a card with a name. MIL looked them up, turns out they are the Brexit candidate (or at least the name on the card is)
Dirty pool.
Ask a previous Tory Prime Minister…
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove
However, he went on to claim Gove had wanted to privatise the NHS, Johnson wished to charge people for health services and Duncan Smith advocated moving to a social insurance system.
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
daveylad :Near 50 and never more anti labour. If I was poor and/or northern maybe, or expect the state to support me, but im none of these. Boris it is 🙂
Wipe yer tears haters!!
47 here, spent the past 26 years of my life scrimping and living on disability benefits due to severe spinal injury back in 1991 but i have always worked as much as possible despite a multitude of problems over the years, for the past 3 years i have been going downhill very fast with secondary progressive multiple sclerosis, which was undiagnosed till i demanded a second opinion, then a final third opinion back in 2017 where i was told i most likely have have had MS undiagnosed/untreated for the past 20+ years...There was a possibility of getting onto a genetic modification study to alter the gut microbiome/immune system to slow down the progression and isolate the damage in my brain but thanks to the brexit vote that was cancelled. I guess I'm being honest when i say i have not got too long to go before i decide to pull the plug, got my exit plan in place long ago, my family/close friends understand my reasoning for this. Im fiercely independent and absolutely hate the fact that i need help for pretty much everything these days and whilst i still have use of my hands that is fading fast, numbness/ tingling/ feeling like my body is on fire one minute then freezing cold the next minute, muscle spasms that lock me rigid yet all they can offer is heavy sedation so whats the point?.
You sound like a good candidate for testing my exit procedure, care to offer me your address so i can end your ****ing selfish life you utter ****ing prick, you are playing with peoples lives, this is not merely a game to those you look down upon.
Near 50 and never more anti labour. If I was poor and/or northern maybe,
Some people are poor though. Don't you care about what happens to them? Don't you want to help them improve their lives?
So would a Tory voter, so would a Tory Government
You do realise that the NHS funding has risen an average of 4% pa since it's inception. This Tory government has averaged .5% pa. That is not a Tory government willing to spend on the NHS. Except during election campaigns. Never when they are actually government.
we’re been told the Torys will sell of the NHS and every time they don’t.
They sold off the blood plasma unit to an offshoot of Mitt Romney's empire. The unit that had remained in govt hands precisely because of fears over the safety of the supply in private hands. Bain capital bought it for 200 million, held for a couple of years and then sold it for 800 million. Know who owns it now? The Chinese.
NHS spending on private providers has doubled since 2010. It's their 2012 Care act that makes it possible for private companies to sue the NHS if they are prevented from bidding to run profitable bits.
Wouldn't sell it off my left bollock. Do you get this stuff straight from Dom Cummings email blasts?
Huge chunks of NHS service delivery have been sold off, that has been the major contributor to inefficiency in the past 10 years, not the fabled army of bureaucracy. For the tories the NHS has become a major tool for syphoning tax payers money into private hands.
The demographic thing is interesting to me and I have an obvious theory.
I'm 49 and have never voted any further right-wing than lib dem (back when there was still a glint of actual liberal in them). Those of us my age and fiercely anti-tory will have grown up during the 80s and will have come of voting age at the heights of Maggie's power.
Anyone with even a smudge of humanity will have seen what that government did to the working class I grew up as part of, even if they weren't directly affected by it. I have no idea how you could live through that and still think a Tory government has any empathy for the 99% at all.
I think (hope) that the boomers may well be the last majority 'automatic' Tory voters we see for a while until the circle turns again. Gen X and onwards will hopefully be increasingly empathetic and community-minded in their political choices...
Plus Scotland’s had tax raising powers for yonks now and they *still* haven’t put income tax up to be significantly more than the rest of uk.
My P60 would disagree with that, SRIT is a thing. Unless you want them to tax everyone to the hilt which nobody has proposed.
Couple of humble brags on previous page from a couple of wealthy/talented/gifted members who grace these pages with their presence.
I call both bullshit.
If they were both wealthy, as they claim, why not become paid-up subscribers?
With their wealth, the subscription costs would be an irrelevance to them.
Yawn.
kimbers
The oldies are screwing us all
(prays for snow, or just a cold snap)
Kimbers - don't get carried away; those numbers are meaningless.
Total sample size; sample size for each age group; unequal age bands; split by each group by gender - would be helpful in attaching any meaning or relevance.
...
Well there you have it. The reason we are in the shit right now is the likes of daveylad. Oh sorry, was that a personal attack?
The English are selfish bastards who would rather vote to keep another 1p in their wallets and purses than pay extra to fund public services
Thanks for that. Popping back a couple of pages to report your post.
those numbers are meaningless
Come on Frank, show us one single study/poll/survey that suggests anything other than older people are far more likely to support both Brexit and the Conservatives… taking away rights and opportunities from young people.
If they were both wealthy, as they claim, why not become paid-up subscribers?
With their wealth, the subscription costs would be an irrelevance to them.
How d'you think they got rich? It's pretty well known that the rich got rich by being tight and are less likely to give to charity, pay for stuff they don't have to etc.
Kelvin, I'm one of the 'older people' and I can state categorically that almost everyone I know in my age bracket are unequivocal remainers, irrespective of their party political allegiance.
How many 'older people' do you know and how much/little do you know about their political views?
Polls/studies/surveys are much devalued as a result of their proven unreliability.
Are you seriously suggesting that 'older voters' are deliberately taking away 'rights and opportunities from younger people'?
In answering that question it would be helpful if you could explain what you mean by 'taking away rights and opportunities.....'; what rights, what opportunities?
Well that's timely. The Observer has learned that patient data has been sold to US pharma Giants by the NHS.
You keep clinging to your fantasy that's it's not for sale though.
Of course it's for sale. Under free market capitalism, everything is, if the price is right.
cromoly - think we're both agreed that their claims of wealth are bullshit.
I was 50 this year and have never voted conservative, and hope to christ I never have to. But, and it’s a big but, suppose one day something worse comes along and looks like it might take your seat?
If you're juggling with the morality of 130,000 dead benefits claimants and the shitshow that is Breixt, may I suggest that we've hit rock bottom?
Near 50 and never more anti labour. If I was poor and/or northern maybe, or expect the state to support me, but im none of these. Boris it is 🙂
Wipe yer tears haters!!
You seem nice. Hope that you don't catch some disease that requires expensive medication.
How many ‘older people’ do you know and how much/little do you know about their political views?
Plenty. But I still only know a tiny number compared to the millions of voters. Just like you. Your experience does not equal data. Older people are FAR more likely to be proBrexit and proTory, both of which are removing rights and opportunities from younger people. Every single survey shows this. Show me some ‘meaningful’ numbers that suggest otherwise.
Are you seriously suggesting that ‘older voters’ are deliberately taking away ‘rights and opportunities from younger people’?
Some think that they are not. Some think that it’ll only effect young people that they don’t know. Some don’t care even when it effects young people they do know. Some think the young have ‘got it too easy these days’. Some think it is a price worth paying, if they don’t have to hear bilingual people in their market towns. Some think it is ‘all about priorities’, and their priorities are different to that of younger folk.
The English are selfish bastards who would rather vote to keep another 1p in their wallets and purses than pay extra to fund public services
Thanks for that. Popping back a couple of pages to report your post.
Did you even bother to read the post preceding it?
think we’re both agreed that their claims of wealth are bullshit.
Maybe - I'll stay on their good side just in case they aren't - and they decide to spread it around.
If you want the government to concentrate wealth, carve up the nation's services and protect your own personal empire (although that's only relevant if you're absolutely loaded) then it's the Tories.
If you want to reverse the sickening downward slog of free-market economics, support the struggling, and give the country a direction and a chance then it's Labour.
Corbyn is a good man, a fighter and exactly what we need right now - despite his character assassination from the centrists/right (Guardian you are culpable) who have helped undermine him - he's still here offering the majority of people a direction of hope.
Oh and see what is happening to the Libdem's? Pretty much falling apart because they based their entire campaign on Brexit, Jo's ego and the silly idea that centrism would be a vote winner in these desperate times was always misguided and distracting.
(Oh and all you tactical voters - fair play.)
You seem nice
What he seemed like was a Troll trying to trigger the snowflakes*
*AKA people not totally devoid of empathy/morality and who want to see an improvement in the quality of life for the vast majority