[Closed] 2 New Laws in force next week, good news for the environmnet

Tesco are giving away free bags for life. Both laws are great moves IMO.

2nd one I agree with.
1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference. And don't forget it only applies to Large shops, so not smaller Express types or corner shops.

Carry on discussing..

Can't see why we can't ban smoking in vehicles totally, but saying that using phones whilst driving is banned but definitely not on the decrease, until there is enough police out there to do more enforcement is not going to happen.

We've had the 5p bag charge in Scotland for a while. I think it's a good thing, it has changed behaviour in our office. We all take bags to the shop for lunch now. It's cut our bag use from 1 per person per day to probably a few a week.

Placcy bag law should have come in ages ago - as in Wales, where it has made a huge difference to shoppers habits

Aldi donating profits from plastic bags to the RSPB ..... *Aplauds*

Whilst I get the not smoking in cars and WHY I dont really see how you can enforce it or why we have bothered as they will still do it in their homes.
I am not sure what has been achieved by it either ban it or dont but this is s strange creeping draconianism

Non smoker FWIW

Scotland here, I reckon quite strongly that the charge is reducing use of them. My local Coop told me they're getting through loads less.

Smoking banned in all vehicles with a person under 18 also in it.

Not going to be enforced, according to a police source. So says The Times, anyway. But then the police aren't enforcing mobile phone use, red light jumping, speeding, or other dangerous driving.

The smoking in cars one I pretty much agree with. It's already seen as being unacceptable and harmful by a big majority I'd say. The law is just reflecting thst rather than trying to alter or lead public opinion.

1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference

Seems to have had a huge impact in Wales. The main difference isn't the 5p, it's the fact that they don't automatically give you one. So you buy a few things, you pick them up and leave. When I come to England now I'm slightly horrified to see how they automatically hand out bags like nobody's business with one or two small items in.

We used to have a cupboard stuffed with the things, even when we tried to remember to bring our own bags, but the charge and the habits of the shop helped make us remember. Cupboard is now empty.

If people don't care enough about their kids to not smoke in an enclosed tin box with them I doubt they give a hoot if it's made illegal.

Use of carrier bags in Scotland is down by 80% since the 5p rule came in, that's pretty amazing tbh, and it generated a million quid in charitable donations too. Usage increased in England, in the same period.

I buy my lunch at Sainsbury's because it comes with a free bright orange carrier bag. I don't buy my lunch at M&S because they charge you 5p for a boring green one. Carrier bags have a multitude of uses.

If they start charging 5p every where, at least I might end up with a healthier lunch.

When I come to England now I'm slightly horrified to see how they automatically hand out bags like nobody's business

This

It's really bad news for anyone who owns a business making plastic bags 🙁

How does this affect a seventeen year old who wants to smoke in their own car?

Just make them slightly larger and call them bin liners

Co-op do biodegradable ones for 6p now too which are really good, if you forget your bag you can get some of them and then use in the food recycling bin.

Only problem is every so often I need a few plastic bags and have to pop out and buy some 😳

midlifecrashes - Member
How does this affect a seventeen year old who wants to smoke in their own car?

It doesn't, since 2011 the legal age to smoke is 18 so they're not allowed to smoke anywhere or at any time.

Bag charge has made a massive difference here (Scotland).

We had "bags for life" for supermarket shopping and reused most other bags we got but we still had a surplus. Now we are working through that and I reckon I've only bought about 10 bags since the charge came in.

The balancing skills of people in Sainsburys and Boots at lunchtime are pretty astonishing too, I reckon if they brought back Crackerjack the Scots would beast it.

Smoking in cars should be banned anyway, on what level does it make sense to let people hold something that's on fire in a vehicle when they are meant to be concentrating?

I reckon if they brought back Crackerjack the Scots would beast it.

It doesn't, since 2011 the legal age to smoke is 18 so they're not allowed to smoke anywhere or at any

That applies to buying cigarettes, not smoking them.

Under 16 police can confiscate cigarettes, over 16 there's nothing they can do.

I've probably spent a few quid on carrier bags since this came in! doesn't bother me tbh.

on what level does it make sense to let people hold something that's on fire in a vehicle when they are meant to be concentrating?

Its safer than having them driving angrily whilst rushing home for a smoke.

point of order

the smoking in cars thing is about public health...not the environment.

As others have commented..in Wales the carrier bag thing had huge amount of media gnashing and wailing in advance which turned out to be hysterical over reaction. people just got on with it and it became normal within weeks. I now wear a baffled look when the assisstant tries to foist bags on me, until it dawns on me that I must be in England

on what level does it make sense to let people hold something that's on fire in a vehicle when they are meant to be concentrating?

A regular smoker isn't distracted in the slightest by smoking a cigarette. Totally second nature.

Far more dangerous to have a driver desperate for a fag and unable to have one.

I'm a regular phone user. Doesn't distract me using it while driving

In the shop where I work in Scotland, before the charge we were giving away about 30 bags a day. Now it's about 6 a month. I haven't bought one yet - I just use the bags for life and chuck them back in the car once I've emptied them. Not exactly hard...

You dont need any bags when you have two young kids, just be prepared for bruised fruit and squashed bread when they drop it...

[i]1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference. And don't forget it only applies to Large shops, so not smaller Express types or corner shops.[/i]

It's made a difference in Scotland, we use far less bags.

this is a great day for the supermarkets.. they ve been trying for 20years to reduce the cost of carrier bags and here in one fell swoop is the answer delivered on a plate.. the last tesco store i managed used about 3600 quids worth a month.. thats one store out of 1000 12 years ago.. they ll be dancing in the streets of cheshunt tonight..

1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference. And don't forget it only applies to Large shops, so not smaller Express types or corner shops.

According to high heid yin in Morrisons the reduction in use of new plastic bags in Scotland is down between 80-90%

I'm a regular phone user. Doesn't distract me using it while driving

Fair enough.

project - Member
Plastic carrier bags to be chargeable and not free anymore in England.

Smoking banned in all vehicles with a person under 18 also in it.

You think they would have compromised.

Make it ok to smoke in a vehicle so long as you have a plastic bag over your head.

We've used the same bags for several years. I don't see why fresh plastic bags are needed every time you shop.

How does this affect a seventeen year old who wants to smoke in their own car?

It is legal so long as they are the only occupant. If any other occupant it would be illegal (even if the second occupant were an adult and also smoking!)

"Far more dangerous to have a driver desperate for a fag and unable to have one."

Does their car not stop.

And the door not open.

Or can they only smoke at home ?

I had a chuckle this morning at the lady the BBC interviewed in Waitrose about he new rules about charging for bags.

She said something along the lines of "Well I'll just have to buy my shopping as normal and then pay 20p extra" Said with a smug grin that implied 20p was noting and she wasn't going to change her habits.

Or can they only smoke at home ?

Pretty much these days. Yes.

(Non smoker btw)

Does their car not stop.

And the door not open.

Or can they only smoke at home ?

Shall I give a politicians answer back and not really answer?

An addict in need of their fix wont make good decisions
Would you like to dispute this or would you rather than do that ?

Sounds like they shouldnt be driving then.

Its a baby robins face at stake here !

I've already decided I'll be asking for a quids worth of bags when I go shopping. Can't see how they're any worse than using swing bin liners etc.

No bags in most of Oz, everyone uses the fabric or tough plastic reusable ones. Up in Queensland this week and was back in the UK recently and you get so many bags it's embarrassing. Also the fabric ones are much better for carrying heavy stuff like beer.

As for smoking there was an idea circulated that you could increase the minimum age for smoking every year...

I think the plastic bag law is a load of PR crap from one perspective.

what percentage of the cost of your food is for actual food and goes to the growers and how much is for pretty packing,glossy inks and advertising.

Supermarkets and manufacturers/distibuters should be forced into selling items that are not packaged in uneccessary plastics that are not biodegradable as well as having tons of printing and photographs on the packaging.

how about banning all that thrash that gets dumped into your post box and goes directly in the bin as well.

And recycling in general is also a way to make unnecessary consumption more acceptable and consumers less guilty/pre-occupied by the amount of trash the gather and dispose of.

less is more.

iffoverlord, some really good stuff in there but plastic bags are an easy, worthy quick hit. And also, a really nice example of how relatively minor changes in law can spur major changes in behaviour.

Mind you- I forgot to take a bag to tesco today and ended up doing the juggly walk of shame back to the car. Didn't have enough hands or pockets so I just did up the belt of my coat real tight and poured stuff in there, like the world's most overt shoplifter. And still ended up carrying a cake with my face. Because hell with paying 5p for a bag!

I got given a box when I was last in Wales, forgot a bag and trying to do the juggly carry. It felt a bit like cheating.

When I took my old bags to the supermarket last week to reuse (in England, have been doing that for a while anyway) the checkout lady insisted on giving me a load of new ones anyway to "stock up" while they were still free. I felt a bit insulted at the time, but on reflection she had a point - and I suppose otherwise those of us who already recycle bags are at a relative disadvantage.

No bags in most of Oz

Not in my bit (Sydney CBD). They are rife!

We have had to pay for shopping bags in China for ages.
From all shops, big and small.
It has cut down on the amount of rubbish floating around the streets.

Now, if they can focus their attention on packaging, that would be a real bonus.
The amount of unnecessary packaging around virtually everything is just crazy.

Now, if they can focus their attention on packaging, that would be a real bonus.

That with bells on. I'm looking at you Marks & Spencer and Waitrose.

And yet diesels engines are still legal, even though air pollution kills more than smoking

But diesel engines don't cause all air pollution, shutting vulnerable people in an enclosed box and filling it with toxic smoke seems like a shitty thing to do. If people can't get that it needs banned

It's carrier bag sculptors I feel sorry for.

[img] [/img]

But yes, good idea I think. I already do things differently because of Aldi/Lidl charges so will just change habits.

Agree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping. Makes transport more tricky too I suppose, but packaging is a terrible waste of resources.

kimbers - Member
And yet diesels engines are still legal, even though air pollution kills more than smoking

That's just VWs and Audis isn't it?

😉

40% of air pollution in that London from diesels, where 3000 deaths a year are attributed to air pollution

Of course smoking in cars with kids should be illegal, is pect that it will be as enforceable as the mobile phone ban tho

Bag charge should be higher than 5p. That's not enough to make people really think about using their own bags - double it.

gree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping. Makes transport more tricky too I suppose, but packaging is a terrible waste of resources.

Would have agreed wholeheartedly 18 months ago, but some recent work with a food packaging company has been a real eye opener...

Food packaging is primarily designed to keep the food safe - damage, chemical, bacterial contamination etc. In a litigious environment it protects food companies against genuine claims as well as deliberate tampering and fraudulent claims.

seems these companies are also totally committed to recycling and waste reduction

i assume kimbers car runs on Co2 and emits oxygen.

I'm in favour of the bag thing, got a fair few big bags for life that are in the car. What I always did wonder though is why we / supermarkets didn't try switching to paper bags like our friends over the pond. Recyclable and surely a better option. It would they be more expensive for the shops themselves?

Sigh - two more pointless laws - why bother to do anything when you can get away with trivia an neatly avoid the BIG Issues.

Politics seems to be like a swan in reverse - have to be seen doing a lot whilst achieving very little.

(Dogs had the runs all night and ive been letting him out and then carrying him up stairs for about 15 times this morning between 2-4am so im a tad Cynical)

I think paper bags are probably more expensive to produce.... The amount of plastic in a plastic bag is minute.

why bother to do anything when you can get away with trivia an neatly avoid the BIG Issues.

Because the little stuff is really was to do, and th big stuff really hard.

There are charges for a paper bag if the have a gusset (flat bottom) too..
The shop i manage has a charity donation box on the counter and if customers want a bag then 5p goes in the box (I live in wales btw). Customers seem happier to put the money straight in a box rather than let the retailer handle the bag money for which they are entitled to a handling fee from the 'donations'. It has certainly cut down on bag usage and is hilarious watching the english people on holiday grumbling about how stupid it is (its so stupid to have cut bag usuage by millions and raised hundreds of thousands for charity)

scotsman living under the law

The only negative ive found is - i dont have a bag for my lunch. So i just stick it in a tupperwear. which takes up more room in my pannier , how ever my lunch does arrive in better nick 😀

kimbers - Member
40% of air pollution in that London from diesels, where 3000 deaths a year are attributed to air pollution

thats why ICE should be banned in built up areas

electric only!

of course wed want to invest several billion in fusion power too

Good luck getting anything from your local supermarket then...

In Germany it's been like this for ages.
In shops and supermarkets my now wife would remove all packaging from the product and hand to the checkout operator after scanning.
They would have a bin for it, and they would then have to pay to remove all the waste to be recycled.
The shops buyers would demand that the suppliers reduce the packaging, to save them money.
It works.
You still have a deposit on beer and water bottles, they all come back to the store.
Keeps the homeless alive as well, as they rummage through the bins and collect everything.

Waitrose put their meat in simple bags, btw, to reduce packaging. Just sayin.

When you stop to think about it, our relationship with bags is a bit strange. Going to buy something, the cashier automatically goes for a huge carrier bag for something tiny, when I'm stood in front of them holding a bloody bag! You say "it's ok, I've got a bag," and they look at you like you've just asked whether they accept payment in fish.

The cynic in me is convinced that it's purely for free advertising, companies want people to be seen walking round with their branded bags.

Food packaging is primarily designed to keep the food safe

Food packaging is primarily designed to sell food. That's why crisp packets are a foot high and have six crisps in.

You still have a deposit on beer and water bottles, they all come back to the store.
Keeps the homeless alive as well, as they rummage through the bins and collect everything.

I really miss this, it was a great idea. Spent hours as a kid wombling for discarded pop bottles to earn some pocket money. Imagine that, a system where kids proactively tidy the place up rather than chucking their shite on the floor wherever they're stood.

1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference.

It's already made a huge difference in the rest of the UK.

The French supermarket bags are far superior to the Uk ones. Rips top tarpaulin and a proper square shape. We normally import some when we come back from France.

Cougar - Moderator

I really miss this, it was a great idea. Spent hours as a kid wombling for discarded pop bottles to earn some pocket money. Imagine that, a system where kids proactively tidy the place up rather than chucking their shite on the floor wherever they're stood.

I see Barrs have finally stopped doing it- apparently it was no longer environmentally or cost benificial, it was taking so much resource to get the bottles back to source that they might as well go to conventional recycling and get the economies of scale. But then, it had become a little niche thing, I suppose if more companies did it that'd change. I remember years ago I read that a glass bottle had to be reused 7 times before it was a better option than disposable pet but I've no idea if that's actually true.

We do a thing on campus where we add 10p to the cost of bottled drinks, then refund it if you return the bottles to specific recycling hoppers. Another behaviour mod thing, apparently it cuts the amount of plastic bottles we send to landfill by about 80%- and only about half of that actually goes via the paid-for return system, it makes people more likely to recycle even if they don't get money back. But I wonder, considering the size of the collection machines etc, and the volumes, whether that 80% is really worth it. It's a good result but maybe not cost benificial.

A lot of music festivals do a similiar thing but it works out weirdly. Most people just consider it to be the price of a pint, and throw the glasses on the ground anyway. But then other festival goers collect hundreds of glasses and return them for the money. You know, instead of actually seeing the bands they've paid hundreds of quid to see.

Going to buy something, the cashier automatically goes for a huge carrier bag for something tiny, when I'm stood in front of them holding a bloody bag! You say "it's ok, I've got a bag," and they look at you like you've just asked whether they accept payment in fish.

And that's what doesn't happen in Wales. They don't hand you a bag unless you ask for one, for which you then have to pay of course.

The French supermarket bags are far superior to the Uk ones.

The Carrefour ones and the Morrisons fabric ones are the first choices out of the cupboard. Both about 5 years old. Also great for carrying books when moving house.

There's a tiny part of me that quite fancies a set of these:

Wales have done the plastic bag thing for years, and Scotland a year or so, it does make a difference.

The smoking thing in cars, I can't see that having much of an effect TBH.

Agree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping

electric only!

of course wed want to invest several billion in fusion power too

Good job that we(via theEU alongside just about everyone else in the nuclear club) already are then isn't it? Expect ITER to be generating sometime in the next 15 years.

My father in law still buys the bags for some unknown reason, I cant remember the last time I got one myself. Also realised the bags from rolls and veg (when the grocers run out of paper) make good bin liners.

project - Member
Plastic carrier bags to be chargeable and not free anymore in England.

What 5p per bag? That's nothing at all. 🙄

How about charging 50p per bag? That should stop it dead in its track. What's with this pussy footing 5p shite?

Smoking banned in all vehicles with a person under 18 also in it.
Discuss

I don't agree with that. If you want to smoke until your entire family die then so be it coz that will free up space ...