[Closed] 2 New Laws in force next week, good news for the environmnet

I think the plastic bag law is a load of PR crap from one perspective.

what percentage of the cost of your food is for actual food and goes to the growers and how much is for pretty packing,glossy inks and advertising.

Supermarkets and manufacturers/distibuters should be forced into selling items that are not packaged in uneccessary plastics that are not biodegradable as well as having tons of printing and photographs on the packaging.

how about banning all that thrash that gets dumped into your post box and goes directly in the bin as well.

And recycling in general is also a way to make unnecessary consumption more acceptable and consumers less guilty/pre-occupied by the amount of trash the gather and dispose of.

less is more.

iffoverlord, some really good stuff in there but plastic bags are an easy, worthy quick hit. And also, a really nice example of how relatively minor changes in law can spur major changes in behaviour.

Mind you- I forgot to take a bag to tesco today and ended up doing the juggly walk of shame back to the car. Didn't have enough hands or pockets so I just did up the belt of my coat real tight and poured stuff in there, like the world's most overt shoplifter. And still ended up carrying a cake with my face. Because hell with paying 5p for a bag!

I got given a box when I was last in Wales, forgot a bag and trying to do the juggly carry. It felt a bit like cheating.

When I took my old bags to the supermarket last week to reuse (in England, have been doing that for a while anyway) the checkout lady insisted on giving me a load of new ones anyway to "stock up" while they were still free. I felt a bit insulted at the time, but on reflection she had a point - and I suppose otherwise those of us who already recycle bags are at a relative disadvantage.

No bags in most of Oz

Not in my bit (Sydney CBD). They are rife!

We have had to pay for shopping bags in China for ages.
From all shops, big and small.
It has cut down on the amount of rubbish floating around the streets.

Now, if they can focus their attention on packaging, that would be a real bonus.
The amount of unnecessary packaging around virtually everything is just crazy.

Now, if they can focus their attention on packaging, that would be a real bonus.

That with bells on. I'm looking at you Marks & Spencer and Waitrose.

And yet diesels engines are still legal, even though air pollution kills more than smoking

But diesel engines don't cause all air pollution, shutting vulnerable people in an enclosed box and filling it with toxic smoke seems like a shitty thing to do. If people can't get that it needs banned

It's carrier bag sculptors I feel sorry for.

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But yes, good idea I think. I already do things differently because of Aldi/Lidl charges so will just change habits.

Agree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping. Makes transport more tricky too I suppose, but packaging is a terrible waste of resources.

kimbers - Member
And yet diesels engines are still legal, even though air pollution kills more than smoking

That's just VWs and Audis isn't it?

😉

40% of air pollution in that London from diesels, where 3000 deaths a year are attributed to air pollution

Of course smoking in cars with kids should be illegal, is pect that it will be as enforceable as the mobile phone ban tho

Bag charge should be higher than 5p. That's not enough to make people really think about using their own bags - double it.

gree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping. Makes transport more tricky too I suppose, but packaging is a terrible waste of resources.

Would have agreed wholeheartedly 18 months ago, but some recent work with a food packaging company has been a real eye opener...

Food packaging is primarily designed to keep the food safe - damage, chemical, bacterial contamination etc. In a litigious environment it protects food companies against genuine claims as well as deliberate tampering and fraudulent claims.

seems these companies are also totally committed to recycling and waste reduction

i assume kimbers car runs on Co2 and emits oxygen.

I'm in favour of the bag thing, got a fair few big bags for life that are in the car. What I always did wonder though is why we / supermarkets didn't try switching to paper bags like our friends over the pond. Recyclable and surely a better option. It would they be more expensive for the shops themselves?

Sigh - two more pointless laws - why bother to do anything when you can get away with trivia an neatly avoid the BIG Issues.

Politics seems to be like a swan in reverse - have to be seen doing a lot whilst achieving very little.

(Dogs had the runs all night and ive been letting him out and then carrying him up stairs for about 15 times this morning between 2-4am so im a tad Cynical)

I think paper bags are probably more expensive to produce.... The amount of plastic in a plastic bag is minute.

why bother to do anything when you can get away with trivia an neatly avoid the BIG Issues.

Because the little stuff is really was to do, and th big stuff really hard.

There are charges for a paper bag if the have a gusset (flat bottom) too..
The shop i manage has a charity donation box on the counter and if customers want a bag then 5p goes in the box (I live in wales btw). Customers seem happier to put the money straight in a box rather than let the retailer handle the bag money for which they are entitled to a handling fee from the 'donations'. It has certainly cut down on bag usage and is hilarious watching the english people on holiday grumbling about how stupid it is (its so stupid to have cut bag usuage by millions and raised hundreds of thousands for charity)

scotsman living under the law

The only negative ive found is - i dont have a bag for my lunch. So i just stick it in a tupperwear. which takes up more room in my pannier , how ever my lunch does arrive in better nick 😀

kimbers - Member
40% of air pollution in that London from diesels, where 3000 deaths a year are attributed to air pollution

thats why ICE should be banned in built up areas

electric only!

of course wed want to invest several billion in fusion power too

Good luck getting anything from your local supermarket then...

In Germany it's been like this for ages.
In shops and supermarkets my now wife would remove all packaging from the product and hand to the checkout operator after scanning.
They would have a bin for it, and they would then have to pay to remove all the waste to be recycled.
The shops buyers would demand that the suppliers reduce the packaging, to save them money.
It works.
You still have a deposit on beer and water bottles, they all come back to the store.
Keeps the homeless alive as well, as they rummage through the bins and collect everything.

Waitrose put their meat in simple bags, btw, to reduce packaging. Just sayin.

When you stop to think about it, our relationship with bags is a bit strange. Going to buy something, the cashier automatically goes for a huge carrier bag for something tiny, when I'm stood in front of them holding a bloody bag! You say "it's ok, I've got a bag," and they look at you like you've just asked whether they accept payment in fish.

The cynic in me is convinced that it's purely for free advertising, companies want people to be seen walking round with their branded bags.

Food packaging is primarily designed to keep the food safe

Food packaging is primarily designed to sell food. That's why crisp packets are a foot high and have six crisps in.

You still have a deposit on beer and water bottles, they all come back to the store.
Keeps the homeless alive as well, as they rummage through the bins and collect everything.

I really miss this, it was a great idea. Spent hours as a kid wombling for discarded pop bottles to earn some pocket money. Imagine that, a system where kids proactively tidy the place up rather than chucking their shite on the floor wherever they're stood.

1st one I don't think will make one iota of difference.

It's already made a huge difference in the rest of the UK.

The French supermarket bags are far superior to the Uk ones. Rips top tarpaulin and a proper square shape. We normally import some when we come back from France.

Cougar - Moderator

I really miss this, it was a great idea. Spent hours as a kid wombling for discarded pop bottles to earn some pocket money. Imagine that, a system where kids proactively tidy the place up rather than chucking their shite on the floor wherever they're stood.

I see Barrs have finally stopped doing it- apparently it was no longer environmentally or cost benificial, it was taking so much resource to get the bottles back to source that they might as well go to conventional recycling and get the economies of scale. But then, it had become a little niche thing, I suppose if more companies did it that'd change. I remember years ago I read that a glass bottle had to be reused 7 times before it was a better option than disposable pet but I've no idea if that's actually true.

We do a thing on campus where we add 10p to the cost of bottled drinks, then refund it if you return the bottles to specific recycling hoppers. Another behaviour mod thing, apparently it cuts the amount of plastic bottles we send to landfill by about 80%- and only about half of that actually goes via the paid-for return system, it makes people more likely to recycle even if they don't get money back. But I wonder, considering the size of the collection machines etc, and the volumes, whether that 80% is really worth it. It's a good result but maybe not cost benificial.

A lot of music festivals do a similiar thing but it works out weirdly. Most people just consider it to be the price of a pint, and throw the glasses on the ground anyway. But then other festival goers collect hundreds of glasses and return them for the money. You know, instead of actually seeing the bands they've paid hundreds of quid to see.

Going to buy something, the cashier automatically goes for a huge carrier bag for something tiny, when I'm stood in front of them holding a bloody bag! You say "it's ok, I've got a bag," and they look at you like you've just asked whether they accept payment in fish.

And that's what doesn't happen in Wales. They don't hand you a bag unless you ask for one, for which you then have to pay of course.

The French supermarket bags are far superior to the Uk ones.

The Carrefour ones and the Morrisons fabric ones are the first choices out of the cupboard. Both about 5 years old. Also great for carrying books when moving house.

There's a tiny part of me that quite fancies a set of these:

Wales have done the plastic bag thing for years, and Scotland a year or so, it does make a difference.

The smoking thing in cars, I can't see that having much of an effect TBH.

Agree about excess packaging but pretty sure people will not accept the possibility of squashed shopping

electric only!

of course wed want to invest several billion in fusion power too

Good job that we(via theEU alongside just about everyone else in the nuclear club) already are then isn't it? Expect ITER to be generating sometime in the next 15 years.

My father in law still buys the bags for some unknown reason, I cant remember the last time I got one myself. Also realised the bags from rolls and veg (when the grocers run out of paper) make good bin liners.

project - Member
Plastic carrier bags to be chargeable and not free anymore in England.

What 5p per bag? That's nothing at all. 🙄

How about charging 50p per bag? That should stop it dead in its track. What's with this pussy footing 5p shite?

Smoking banned in all vehicles with a person under 18 also in it.
Discuss

I don't agree with that. If you want to smoke until your entire family die then so be it coz that will free up space ...

How about charging 50p per bag? That should stop it dead in its track. What's with this pussy footing 5p shite?

As others have said, 5p was enough to massively reduce carrier bag use in Wales and Scotland.

It's just a Nudge Tax, it doesn't need to be punitive to work.

If you want to smoke until your entire family die then so be it coz that will free up space ...

By that logic it should be legal to murder members of your own family. 😕

GrahamS - Member

How about charging 50p per bag? That should stop it dead in its track. What's with this pussy footing 5p shite?

As others have said, 5p was enough to massively reduce carrier bag use in Wales and Scotland.

It's just a Nudge Tax, it doesn't need to be punitive to work.

Make up your mind. Do you want it or do you not want it? What with this halfhearted environment approach? 5p ... ya, that's shite!

If you want to smoke until your entire family die then so be it coz that will free up space ...

By that logic it should be legal to murder members of your own family.

FFS! Only in Britain you get people smoking in their house/car with all windows closed. I was surprised (a bit shock) that this actually happened ... so so stooppid.

I remember the first time I traveled on a double-decker bus in London where people were smoking like chimney with all windows closed. I thought these people must be half pint to smoke with all windows closed.

Even the head hunters do not smoke like chimney in a fully air conditioned bus ... their women folks will smoke while carrying their baby on their back but never in an enclosed space.

If people intentionally want to kill my family then I should be able to defend them.

However, if I am stooopid enough to smoke like you lot with windows closed then I think it should be wise that my gene should not be passed down to the next generation. In that case I have done you a favour so you need to thank me. Oh yes ... you have the permission to shoot them (my family) if they are so stoopid to smoke with all windows closed in a confined space, if you don't I would do it myself because they are so stoopid.

they were talking to a guy on radio4 who started a plastic bag recycling firm, highly commendable, but one thing that struck me a "as a bit nuts" was that one of the item they recycled the bags into was bin liners 😕

It's a step in the right direction. Works well in Wales, although it is frustrating when you forget to take your own bags with you.

On a related note, I really wish supermarkets could/would sell a reduced packaging version of products for 1p less than the retail packaged item. Toothpaste particularly annoys me. I see no reason for tubes to come individually in a laminated cardboard box. I would gladly buy the same toothpaste in a white tube with the type printed in simple black ink. They could ship them in shelve sized boxes of ~20 tubes.

Been paying for plastic bags in South Africa for years. Became necessary to introduce a charge because of the litter aspect. You'd have thought SA's national flower was the plastic bag there were so many of them snagged on barber wire fences out in the veld.

Sat in front of a woman of the plane back from the UK last week who was outraged with the new smoking law. She said to the person sitting next to her that it was her car and her kids. No one else had a right to interfere. Funnily enough, and I've only just put these two things together, the captain on the plane made an announcement that two smoke detectors had gone off in two toilets during the flight and that if they found out who the culprit was they'd be handed over to police on landing. Maybe it was her.

She said to the person sitting next to her that it was her car and her kids. No one else had a right to interfere.

I wonder if she views all child protection laws in the same way? 😕

I would guess so. She didn't sound like a very pleasant individual.

According to high heid yin in Morrisons the reduction in use of new plastic bags in Scotland is down between 80-90%

...and their trade in kitchen bin liners has gone up 80-90pc. 😀

"CHAOS!" "FEARS!"

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Too funny...

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2015/10/05/twitter-reacts-5p-plastic-bag-charge/

Lolz.. Scottish and Welsh definitely more intelligent than English, then. And better at rugby.