[Closed] 18/09/2014.

Bencooper think the 79 vote was for devolution, but either way the 79 referendum was rigged

Despite having a vote, I think I shall abstain.

Not being 'local' and all that. I do hope folk can get through it as best as possible without being dicks about it.

Anyone read Charles Stross's books [i]Halting State[/i], and [i]Rule 34[/i]? His descriptions of an independent Scotland are rather interesting. He currently lives in Scotland, I believe, and has an outsiders view of how things might work out.

This Charlie?

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/10/politics_1.html old blog

I'm very proudly British, and quite frankly don't think that Scotland would be the nation it is if it wasn't part of the Union.

Why?

And what would it be?

don't think that [s]Scotland[/s] the Union would be the nation it is if it wasn't [s]part of the Union[/s] for Scotland.

ftfy

Don't leave us, please! 🙁

If Scotland goes I'll be lobbying for The North to secede. Perhaps we can bring Wales along too and form a United Republic of Everywhere In Great Britain That Isn't Populated By Complete Gits (And Leeds).

That sounds good, just carve off the south east and kick it out to sea.

I thoughy the English purchased Scotland fair and square after the Scots Darien disaster - do they get a refund (disinterested of Wales)

Payment made to the nobles of Scotland at the time of Union was in return for Scotland taking on a share of the national debt of England. I'm sure we could pay it back if we're wiping out our share of the current national debt 🙂

I am a proud Scot who is happy to be in the union. I feel no crisis in identity and like institutions such as the BBC. Unlike many I don't feel downtrodden. The mere mention of Tory, London and Westminster from Salmond has many nationalists foaming at the mouth.

Salmond and many others cite the War in Iraq as an example of a government taking Scots to war against our wishes. Unlike the English who it appears were keen to go to war. Lets not forget that it was a government WE in Scotland voted for that took us to war.

I also don't wish to consider my wifes family in England as foreigners.

I also feel a hint of pity to those that want rid of us. You would be saying goodbye to a great part of the UK. Perhaps there is a sense of jelousy hidden below a veneer of ill informed jingoistic xenophobia.

Labour took us into the iraq war based.. on a lie. Alex Salmond spoke out against the war.

Perhaps we should have voted in larger numbers for such a great man sooner.
I don't doubt he has a bit of charisma. But we are in danger of playing personality politics with the highest stakes possible.

Fair points athgray but don't you fancy trying to do things better than they are now? If the undemocratic house of lords had been abolished and proportional representation been brought in then I might be more likely to keep things as they are. As it is, Westminster is never going to modernise and will continue to drift further out of step with other forward looking nations and will never represent the views of the people who live in Scotland.

I won't ever think of England as a foreign land, we do have a lot in common after all. Hadrians Wall will remain in ruins.

Simples.

All you English buy somewhere in Scotland by mid-2014 and then you can vote for independence. Then move back home. 🙂

And remember, none of us are actually (legally?) English, Welsh, Scottish or NI, we are all UK/British.

In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?

I don't disagree that the parliament in Edinburgh is a bit of a breath of fresh air in relation to Westminster. Perhaps I am being overly hopeful that changes can be made such as the adoption of PR. I still don't personally see that Westminsters faults should be enough to drive a wedge between our countries, which is what I think can happen next year.

I am not sure what Scottish labour position on the Iraq war was, I'm guessing they would have taken the party line from Blair maybe if the government had been honest with us we wouldn't have gone to war that's a moot point now. But I believe all the decisions would have been taken in Westminster. I for one don't think that voting for independence will really affect my friends and family who are not Scottish or living in Scotland. Don't believe it will change the way I think of them. That's probably because I think of myself as Scottish and I don't have a strong sense of British identity.

I also feel a hint of pity to those that want rid of us.

You would be saying goodbye to a great part of the UK.

Perhaps there is a sense of jelousy hidden below a veneer of ill informed jingoistic xenophobia.

personnally I'm agnostic on the whole issue and I think Wales could pottentially benefit when a significant part of the MoD moves south post independance. I don't have a vote. Lots of Scots by birth don't have a vote, lots of EU nationals do have a vote. If it's a tight result it could be decided by non-Scots votes

I'd hope that relations would improve post-independence. With no political points to be scored and clearer boundaries we could have a proper grown-up agreement between two countries.

[quote=athgray ]Perhaps we should have voted in larger numbers for such a great man sooner.
I don't doubt he has a bit of charisma. But we are in danger of playing personality politics with the highest stakes possible.
TBF most of the "personality politics" are being played by the No campaign.

In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?

ask Alex, he has all the answers 😉

Don't personally care one way or the other - i probably wont even notice the difference to be honest.

I would like to know though, how the rest of the UK can be considered a 'rump' when approximately only 10% of the population would be leaving?

Oh, just realised i WOULD notice the difference - we could have our daylight back! 😛

I am not sure what Scottish labour position on the Iraq war was, I'm guessing they would have taken the party line from Blair maybe if the government had been honest with us we wouldn't have gone to war that's a moot point now. But I believe all the decisions would have been taken in Westminster

decisions by the expat Scot Tony Blair and the Scottish Westminister Mp for a Scottish constituency Gordon Brown?

which one of them made the decision that despite Saddam having weapons of mass destruction at 45mins to deployment over half the British forces crossing the Line of Departure wouldn't have the appropriate NBC equipment ❓

[quote=b r ]
In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?
It's quite likely that you could end up with some form of dual nationality. Check out the Irish Republic for an example of what could happen.
[quote=big_n_daft ]
I think Wales could pottentially benefit when a significant part of the MoD moves south post independance.What part would that be? The MOD footprint north of the border is much smaller than you must believe.

It's quite likely that you could end up with some form of dual nationality.

the Scottish passport when you open it will have Mel Gibson shouting "you'll never take our freedom" like those novelty cards you get 😉

big n daft
If its a tight vote it could be decided by kids

Why not? They are the ones who will have to deal with the results in the long term are they not?

I'm looking forward to seeing how a late medieval concept will translate into the C21st.

My son is 4 and my daughter is 10 months. I am sure any decision made next year will not affect them?! Do we think we made our best decisions at 16?

What part would that be? The MOD footprint north of the border is much smaller than you must believe.

I'm in, where do I sign.

I do feel a bit sorry for many down south, when we go what's it going to be like?

Sorry to everyone in England who wants Scotland to stay part of the union, but it's time to go

is is a lot bigger than that in the North west of England or Wales, both areas will be glad of the change in direction for MoD spending post independance

big n daft
If its a tight vote it could be decided by kids

most whom will be dressed like Mel on election day dragging grannies to the polls 😉

Probably not, so its up to the people of Scotland to educate them on the pros and cons...

or you could be as cynical as me and think the yes campaign is banking on immature and unformed opinions..

[quote=big_n_daft ]
is is a lot bigger than that in the North west of England or Wales, both areas will be glad of the change in direction for MoD spending post independance
Aye - but one would assume that the MOD budget would also be less without the contribution of the taxes raised in Scotland?

My son is 4 and my daughter is 10 months. I am sure any decision made next year will not affect them?! Do we think we made our best decisions at 16?

Some of the decisions I made at 16 make this quite a disturbing prospect.

I'm sure not all 16 year olds are as stupid as me.

[quote=muddydwarf ]Probably not, so its up to the people of Scotland to educate them on the pros and cons...
or you could be as cynical as me and think the yes campaign is banking on immature and unformed opinions..
Myth. Any independent polling of teenagers shows a pretty even split between those in favour and those against independence. Strathclyde Uni recently had their own hustings and voted "no".

I am sure they will big and daft.

Here's hoping for vastly different VAT rates so we can do some cross border bike part smuggling.

Stevewhyte - it may or may not surprise you that many people in England i have spoken to about this want Scotland to leave as well.

Would be interested to see some stats on that if anyone has them?

and the army

The MoD said the upheaval would ensure more stability in the future as the army settled around the seven hubs.

They will be at Salisbury Plain, Aldershot, Colchester, Stafford and in the east Midlands. There will be two more hubs in Scotland – in Edinburgh and Fife.

how many in the North West?

Regards MOD spending, I've kind of got the impression that Whitehall has been winding down in Scotland more than south of the wall already. Due to just have the one RAF base for instance.

Aye - but one would assume that the MOD budget would also be less without the contribution of the taxes raised in Scotland?

the split of the budget isn't balanced in terms of where it is spent, there would be a significant rebalancing towards E, W and NI of the remaining 90%

It was Alan Hansen who said "you can't win anything with kids" and look what happened then
🙂