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My old Toshiba Satellite is on its way out and I have £1000 to spend on a new computer. The new iMac caught my eye. I want to start doing web designing in my spare time so a computer that will be ideal for this is needed. Will I be better off buying a PC rather than a Mac or won't it matter?
Link to iMac here: http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html
For £969 I can get the basic 21" model with 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor and 4gig DDR3 ram , 500gig harddrive and NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory3.
For just under £1000 I could get a Dell StudioXPS 8100 - Intel Core i7 Processor 860 (2.80GHz, 8MB)
Graphics Card - Single 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 240
6 gig Ram and 2 Terrabite harddrive.
24" Dell screen.
If one looks at the figures the Dell obviously has a lot more going for it, but will it be overkill?
Like I mentioned earlier, I want to start doing wed design, so which one would be best suited for it.
I would get the dell and if you really want a Mac put a dual boot on [url= http://www.hackintosh.com/ ]Hackintosh[/url] it.
Graphic design - probably a mac, as much as anything becasue it's the industry standard.
Though make sure your wardrobe is properly prepared - polonecks and frameless glasses and ensure that you have the correct facial hair. 😉
They will both be fine for web-design. Same toolset is available on each.
I went over to dark side (iMac) a few years ago and have never looked back. It just works. Always. Compared to a PC the user experience is light years ahead, though you have to accept some compromises in terms of software availability etc. Nothing in life is perfect.
The mac screen will be alot better than any cheap dell LCD but the dell spec is very good as you can see. Either will work.
has to be an imac -1 year of solid use so far for me - no spyware, malware, trojns etc - no crashes, blue screens it all just works!
Dont worry about spec differences either as the mac doesnt need as much spec to run
Last month I bought exactly the iMac you mention, and it's amazing. I'm not remotely into IT and I'm no designer (I'm actually a freelance copywriter) but the iMac is my main tool for work, and it's seriously improved my efficiency as well as the pleasure I get from doing my day-to-day job. I paid for 'applecare' to extend the warranty and support for a further 2 years. My other half works in a school, so I got an educational discount on the whole bundle, saving £100 overall.
I would get the dell and if you really want a Mac put a dual boot on Hackintosh it.
Yeah, you can do that but worrying about whether every system update is going to prevent it booting and niggles like sleep not working etc subtracts from the appeal.
Get the iMac! They're nicer to use and hence more productive.
Yup, the Mac screen is a LED backlit 1080HD screen, so will be very nice.
As far as the extra grunt that the Dell has, not sceptical about Quad core and all that, but I am of the school of 'how many more blades does a razor need???' 😉
I really like the idea of getting the iMac, and won't be able to spend that much money on a computer again for a very long time, hence my 'what other options' thinking to avoid buyers remorse.
YHM
The new iMacs are beautiful - the screen is amazing. You won't be disappointed.
having seen comments about setting up php, apache etc on Windows, it is a breeze on a mac. Everything is included out of the box. Not saying you should host a website on your mac but would allow you the chance to learn some of the server scripting should that be your thing.
When you say a very long time how long do you mean? The biggest problem of the iMac is that it is not upgradable like your standard PC box. I am all for the Mac but if you are thinking that a very long time is longer than 3-4 years then a PC might make a tad more sense.
All you can essentially upgrade on the iMac is the Hard Drive and the memory. Both very important but sometimes it is not enough.
Having said that Macs are simply brilliant. Let alone that if you absolutely need to Apple provides all the tools for you to install Windows as a second operating system hassle free.
And for the guy that mentioned the Hackintosh, I have one but I wouldn't ever consider it as my main machine or use it as such. The smallest thing that goes wrong might have a detrimental effect on your OS. I have it to play around cause I am a geek, my work is done on a Macbook Pro.
if you buy from John Lewis you get a free 2 year warranty...
Picking up the new 27" iMac this afternoon....
Made the switch and bought the new imac 3 weeks ago, fed up of windows/PC related niggles forced my change, very impressive so far, apart from the cost all good, just works.
I've got a MacBook and a Sony laptop running Vista, similar speed Intel 2 core processor in each. The Mac is way quicker in actual use, the Vista machine spends half its time running anti-virus and downloading endless Windows and Flash updates, etc.
There's plenty of Mac software for what you want to do, and in fact it comes with some fairly good software to get you started.
No contest. iMac a very pleasant experience. On top of the benefits already mentioned (esp screen quality) they are virtually silent. Worth the money for that on its own.
Put it this way, how many people go back to PCs?
The Fopster - MemberI went over to dark side (iMac) a few years ago and have never looked back. It just works. Always. Compared to a PC the user experience is light years ahead, though you have to accept some compromises in terms of software availability etc. Nothing in life is perfect.
We've just got a new imac and it's been riddled with problems. If you take the headphones out of the jack it doesn't kick the speakers in, and sometimes randomly crashes. Apparently this is a common problem and there don't appear to be any fixes for it yet as it's so new.
Shame as otherwise it's a nice computer.
So its riddled with [b]A[/b] problem? Sounds like an annoying thing for sure, but that isn't multiple problems.
Switched back from Mac to Windows 7 and it was like going from Vista 👿 to Mac all over again.
I did look at upgrading my mac but I just couldn't justify the frankly disproportionate hardware cost over the ability to use Mac OS when Win 7 is pretty much the same if not better than Mac OS when all things are considered.
I have a Studio laptop and the build quality is significantly better than the Dell budget range.
Get the Dell and Hakintosh it up for when you need Mac specific stuff, you'll have more money left over to upgrade it later as the parts costs fall, which doesn't happen with Mac stuff.
glenp - MemberSo its riddled with A problem? Sounds like an annoying thing for sure, but that isn't multiple problems.
There are more that I can't be arsed going into, and then things that are just a bit annoying. But that's the main one. Which is damn annoying when you're a video editor. we've got autosave running every 2 minutes to cover our backs now. Crazy.
Fair enough - does sound bad. Very different to my iMac experience.
We've just got a new imac and it's been riddled with problems. If you take the headphones out of the jack it doesn't kick the speakers in, and sometimes randomly crashes. Apparently this is a common problem and there don't appear to be any fixes for it yet as it's so new.
the only problem i have had in 10 years was upgrading from Leopard to Snow Leopard, it was very flakey, crashing all the time, wouldn't run flash. Formatted the hard drive and reinstalled Snow Leopard and it has been fine since. i am guessing something i had installed at some point was conflicting but no way of being certain. always worth a shot.
I'm a PC man myself. Mac is definitely nicer but is way more expensive, and you can't get half the software.
You can easily avoid trojans and spyware etc if you're not a total numpty, and Windows 7 is quite nice.
However I would NOT NOT NOT EVER go Dell. Pepole I know have had tons of problems with their laptops; they were installing all kinds of crap and spy ware on their systems a few years ago too.
I'd call someone like Aria or Overclockers and ask them to spec a system for what you want out of real branded components.. for example you might find (as I have done) that whilst something like a Dell has this CPU and this graphics card, the motherboard (which is never mentioned in the specs) is a piece of junk and has say a rubbish hard drive controller on it, and your system will run like a two legged dog.
you can't get half the software.
What software is that then?
molgrips
....they were installing all kinds of crap and spy ware on their systems a few years ago too
🙄 Yeah right, Spyware FFS !!
Dunno about spyware but my GF's Dell came with all sorts of rubbish preinstalled on it. You can't even easily reinstall the OS and start again because it's all included on their startup disks - and you need the special drivers to make the screen work etc
All PC's from major manufacturers come with their feature set preinstalled, just uninstall them, it not hard.
I'd call someone like Aria or Overclockers and ask them to spec a system for what you want out of real branded components..
For the love of god don't do that and then compare it to a Mac or a decent Dell.
You'll end up with the PC equivalent of this...
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It's a racecar innit!
However I would NOT NOT NOT EVER go Dell. Pepole I know have had tons of problems with their laptops; they were installing all kinds of crap and spy ware on their systems a few years ago too.
This is only true of the Inspiron/Dimension systems which you've priced yourself above.
worth looking on the refurb store on the apple site too - still come with the usual one year warranty and usually 25% cheaper
Do you want to do work with your computer? - get a Mac
Do you want to work on your computer? - get a PC
(Not quite as clearcut as that these days)
For the love of god don't do that and then compare it to a Mac or a decent Dell.
Only if you get the blue lights and clear sided case and crap. They do actually do normal components too, you know.
All PC's from major manufacturers come with their feature set preinstalled, just uninstall them, it not hard.
It can be... Oh yes... And if you don't have the full Windows disc and only the stupid system restore.....
This is only true of the Inspiron/Dimension systems which you've priced yourself above.
Sure about that? I'd not trust Dell unless every component was named, and even then I'd need to be convinced it wasn't a cut-down OEM special part a la Specialized.
Yeah right, Spyware FFS !!
The spyware thing was about something called My Way which was an annoying piece of 'useful' pre-installed junk that bugged the hell out of people:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/15/dell_my_way_controversy/
On the Dell we had (and my Dad too) the junk installed was excessive, intrusive and resource hungry. I'd certainly call it malware.
If you call a component vendor and have them help you spec, you'll get quality supported kit and a plain Windows 7 disk which I guarantee will run faster more easily than a Dell of equivalent spec.
I want to start doing web designing in my spare time so a computer that will be ideal for this is needed.
What exactly is this then?
If you want to make a nice looking functional web site a PC for £500 will do the job quite happily. No need to spend more than that unless you are thinking about hosting it yourself. Web site design is hardly resource hungry.
If you want to do 'graphic design' then get a MAC. Graphic designers explode if they use a PC. Fact.
i went to a new imac just before christmas. originally wanted a macbook pro but the spec on the imacs is so much better and we didnt really need a laptop.
I would say stretch the extra £150 for the 27" one though. If you get the small one and then see the bigger one you will be so disappointed 🙂
I hate to sound like a fanboy, but everything we have done on it is soooo much more simple than on a pc. The iMovie and iPhoto software are excellent, and the screen is fantastic.
I should perhaps have gone for the 2TB hard drive upgrade though, as HD video is filling it up very fast!
edit: if you can get one through the educational discount scheme it will save you a good few £.
I went over to dark side (iMac) a few years ago and have never looked back. It just works. Always. Compared to a PC the user experience is light years ahead, though you have to accept some compromises in terms of software availability etc. Nothing in life is perfect.
A PC does not have an intrinsic user experience as it is just hardware, which incidentally is basically the same as the hardware in a Mac these days. You CAN compare the software, and in this case I suspect you mean to compare MacOS and Windows. Other operating systems are available.
In regards to the OP, if you're not that tech savvy (and can stomach the extra cost) I would recommend the Mac. You get a decently secure OS, which is bundled with your hardware so much less likely to have problems, and you don't have to do much work to keep it working.
If you think you are a bit more tech savvy, or fancy learning a little more, try chucking a linux of some kind on your current machine. You may find it gives it a new lease of life, and flavours like Ubuntu are very, very easy to use these days. If you like it you can always spec up a custom computer of some kind to run it on.
Which is damn annoying when you're a video editor. we've got autosave running every 2 minutes to cover our backs now. Crazy.
if you are a video editor then why are you using an i-mac?
a mac pro with better graphics card, fast scratch disk and another disk with chrono-sync running would be a more sensible solution for paid work.
not to mention a monitor with a larger colour gamut and faster response time.
If you want to make a nice looking functional web site a PC for £500 will do the job quite happily
+1. Spend the rest on some Magura Thors.
Go for the Mac.
I use both PC and Mac, and have both in my house, so can not be accused of outright bigotry. But I also drive Volvos (with the Mac sticker in the window), shop at Ikea, wear turtlenecks, and have wire-framed specs.
So my bias is clear.
A decently secure OS? Mac? Hardly. The Mac OS is not the most secure OS around and is arguably less secure than Windows. The main reason it seems to be more secure is the fact that the Mac OS has not really been the target of hackers as the installed base is not really that big, or hasn't been. It is getting bigger now so don't be surprised if there is a rise in the incidents of Macs being hacked or the target of malware. There is a lot of tosh spoken on this and other sites about how wonderful and sparkly Macs are and how crap Windows is although, to be fair, Vista was a bit of an abomination. A lot of people like to hate MS and seem to construe that because we hate MS everything they do must be crap. Intelligent thinking there chaps. Very bright. And because Apple is cool and sexy looking everything they do is brilliant and perfect. It's not. There are some fundamental differences between them in that Windows is not written for a specific set of hardware that is controlled by MS. Apple on the other hand manufacture their kit and can therefore tune the OS to that hardware.
Ultimately it will come down to how you want to spend your money and what represents good value to you. If you like the Mac and want to spend more omney on it (comparable to a PC) then go ahead and do it. If you think it is a bit steep then go for a PC. But don't get sucked into the hype that by buying a Mac you are buying a more secure machine.
Sony laptop running Vista
There is your problem right there.....even MS admit Vista was a shower of shite. I am a Mac owner, but recently set up a laptop for my mum using Windows 7 and its very nice to use and alot quicker than Vista.
Thank you guys, some very usefull replies so far.
@ llama : Agree that that a £500 PC will be capable of web design. I would however also start to dabble with graphic design, hence the interest in a Mac. I have no idea where all this will lead, but I have a lot of spare time and want to make better use of it.
Won't be buying any bike parts molgrips, as I have a budget of £1000 for getting my @rse in gear and making myself more productive 😉
Just for the record, if you are planning to 'get into design' is your £1000 budget going to include software? As photoshop ain't cheap.
Despite people always claiming otherwise there are *demo* versions of things like Photoshop available for Mac - so I'm lead to believe.
Now why would you write the word demo like that then?
@ llama : Agree that that a £500 PC will be capable of web design. I would however also start to dabble with graphic design, hence the interest in a Mac. I have no idea where all this will lead, but I have a lot of spare time and want to make better use of it.
There's no advantage of the Mac over the PC for either web design or graphic design. Pretty much all the standard software is Adobe stuff, which runs pretty much the same on either. It is worth buying a mac because you want a shinier looking operating system, or like the way Macs work generally, but it'll make bugger all difference to how well Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign etc. run. They all run great on Windows too.
Depending on what kind of graphic design you want to do (i.e. if you want to do things with print resolution photos) the processor spec could potentially make a big difference.
Also, my top web design tip, is that web design isn't really about writing web pages any more - nowadays anyone doing anything vaguely professional is using a content management system, so the only time they write much HTML is when programming templates for the CMS (which also often involves a fair bit of PHP or javascript programming). If you're writing a website that is ever going to be updated, you want it in a CMS. If you find yourself using Dreamweaver etc. to create core content for a website, you're probably about to build a rubbish hard to update website.
A side effect of that is that you really don't need to worry about what operating system you're using, as long as it has a web browser and general photo editing etc. tools.
having seen comments about setting up php, apache etc on Windows, it is a breeze on a mac. Everything is included out of the box. Not saying you should host a website on your mac but would allow you the chance to learn some of the server scripting should that be your thing.
The mac comes with a slightly dodgy setup of various web stuff installed, which probably isn't exactly what you'd want in the end. Changing it is a complete pain. Setting similar stuff up on a PC is really awfully hard, you have to go to [url= http://www.wampserver.com/en/ ]wampserver.com[/url], click 'download', run the installer, and then you have a pretty well thought out setup of all the web server stuff you'd need, which updates itself nicely, and even lets you install multiple older versions of things if you want to test against them. It is a million times easier than pissing around with the config files on the default setup you'd get on a Mac or Linux.
Joe
More to the point, there are cut-down versions ie Photoshop Elements available for a very reasonable £60 or so instead of £800. And it's pretty good too, layers and all.
Joe, thank you for insightfull reply. I must admit that the Mac does appeal to me because of it's ergonomic design, also, having been using PC's untill now, rather keen to try something different. I have always believed that Macs are more suited to the creative side of computing (music and graphics) and Pc's more suited for spreadsheets and 'office' use. Can't really say what my believe was based on, but that was just how I thought. I hope you don't mind if I ask more newbie questions about web design related stuff once I get going.
Jamie, £1000 just for hardware, will worry about software once I have exhausted all the free web tuorials etc and know a bit more as to what I want to do.
Get a Mac... you will not regret it... I've convinced quite a few devout Wintel fans to convert and none of them would consider going back now. Plus if there is something you really need Windoze for you can always Bootcamp or use Fusion.
Joe, thank you for insightfull reply. I must admit that the Mac does appeal to me because of it's ergonomic design, also, having been using PC's untill now, rather keen to try something different. I have always believed that Macs are more suited to the creative side of computing (music and graphics) and Pc's more suited for spreadsheets and 'office' use. Can't really say what my believe was based on, but that was just how I thought. I hope you don't mind if I ask more newbie questions about web design related stuff once I get going.
Jamie, £1000 just for hardware, will worry about software once I have exhausted all the free web tuorials etc and know a bit more as to what I want to do.
You can use GIMP anyway which is free and apparently pretty powerful.
I have to say I do think the Mac is much better generally for creative/design stuff - the built in software it comes with is generally great and it all nicely integrates together and with the OS. Don't know if you are into music but Garageband is an awesome piece of software.
Yeah if you are using all the pro stuff will work just as well on either - though you do get a lot less funny device/hardware conflicts on Mac than a PC.
A Mac seems to work faster for a given spec than a PC too ime - perhaps partly due to not having to run bloated virus/spyware software etc
If you're spending all day on it then things like it being a nice place to "be", it being near silent, the screen being really nice - all those things make a big big difference.
You can use GIMP anyway which is free and apparently pretty powerful.
Last time I tried the user interface was an impenetrable nightmare, but that was a while ago.
I have always believed that Macs are more suited to the creative side of computing (music and graphics) and Pc's more suited for spreadsheets and 'office' use. Can't really say what my believe was based on
The Apple advertising campaign 🙂
Oh and for those struggling with bloated antivirus - don't use McAfee or Norton - they are both awful. Use Eset instead.
If you're spending all day on it then things like it being a nice place to "be", it being near silent, the screen being really nice - all those things make a big big difference.
Yep.. which is another reason for speccing your own. If you ask someone to spec it, you can ask for a silent PC and you'll get one.
Last time I tried the user interface was an impenetrable nightmare, but that was a while ago.
It is a bit better nowadays, although not perfect by a long shot. It is great for web graphics and other stuff that will be primarily digital, although I understand it is lacking in colour handling features that some people doing stuff for professional printers require.
Joe
Add also: all in one "box", really small footprint, minimal wires and power leads, its an Apple…
Add also: all in one "box", really small footprint, minimal wires and power leads, its an Apple…
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😆
my nearly 4 year old iMac is still rocking along just fine, webcam still works too 😛
So if the webcam goes on the fritz on an iMac you'd send it back? No, you'd buy a cheap USB cam and just carry on. That's if you actually gave a toss, never had a webcam, never had a need for one, can't actually foresee a need for one. That's only over the last fifteen years of using a Mac, so who knows. Also, use the above pic, then remove the tower from the PC pic. That's what you'll be left with if there's a serious hardware problem with the PC. The iMac is no different to using a laptop for your main computer if there's an issue, or any other integrated computer design, of which there are a number styled after the iMac.
Go for the Mac, put VMWare on it then you can install any number of alternative OS on it, so you could have Linux, Windows 95/2000/Vista/7/Mac OS9, and have them open and copy-and-paste between them.
So if the webcam goes on the fritz on an iMac you'd send it back? No, you'd buy a cheap USB cam and just carry o
...or you pop to an Apple store who fix it for free within a couple of hours an let you pick it up later on the same day.
Good luck getting that kind of service from dell or *shudders* ebuyer when you have to send something back.
A decently secure OS? Mac? Hardly. The Mac OS is not the most secure OS around and is arguably less secure than Windows. The main reason it seems to be more secure is the fact that the Mac OS has not really been the target of hackers as the installed base is not really that big, or hasn't been. It is getting bigger now so don't be surprised if there is a rise in the incidents of Macs being hacked or the target of malware.
I never meant to say MacOS was the most secure operating system around, we have OpenBSD for that! What I did say is that it is 'decently secure', as in not completely and utterly rubbish. Which it is. Not just because of a narrow install base, but because the core of the system is derived from Nextstep, which was derived from BSD, which means it's got some proper kernel scheduling and core stability in there.
Admittedly adding "ease of use" stuff on top reduces security (I don't think MacOS encourages a separate root user for instance) and admittedly I've not dug down properly into the MacOS kernel, but I guess from your response neither have you 😉
I had the same question just after Xmas,
went with the MAC ...
FANTASTIC decision ( so far)
Boots way quicker,
Looks great
Any software I want / need is there
and
It's not loaded with Bloatware 🙂
wish I'd made the change ages ago
At the end of the day the fact is, you get more for your money in terms of outright performance if you spend £1000 on a PC than you do if you buy an Apple; drop dead, stone cold, fact of life.
I have Apple's and PC's and to honest I only uses PC's for gaming, i perfer to use the Apples for everyday stuff, there just less hassle.
I use a newly bought MB Pro and its the best thing Ive ever bought
Just back from the Apple store in Kingston. Had a demo on the iMac, and wow, it is fantastic. The photo and video editing software just works so nice. I will definately be getting one. Just waiting for a cheque to clear 🙂
Thank you to everyone for the replies.
A decently secure OS? Mac? Hardly. The Mac OS is not the most secure OS around and is arguably less secure than Windows. The main reason it seems to be more secure is the fact that the Mac OS has not really been the target of hackers as the installed base is not really that big, or hasn't been
This is such BS - MacOS is probably the biggest target as it's so publicised as being secure and mac users are so smug about it - and still nothing has touched it.
I'd go mac by the way - but if you need to actually buy CS, that's another grand. If you could, y know, borrow it - go for that one