I said i wouldn't be involved but in an attempt to sort of facilitate* - another period and page of posts has passed and still one of the very important parts of Hannah's very well written and thought out piece is being roundly ignored.
* I know, it's a free debate and it'll go where it chooses.
Competitive sport doesn’t trump human rights
Let’s go back to this idea: ‘we’re a welcoming and tolerant society that embraces everyone’. Remember how women felt fettered and kept down by being told we couldn’t play this sport, or do that job, or wear those clothes? Remember how people of colour were told they couldn’t go to that school, or walk through that door, or drink from that water fountain? History is full of one part of society telling another part that they’re not allowed to do this or that, and it doesn’t cast the tellers in a favourable light.
If we agree that the freedom to do the things we love, live safely with the people we love, and live full lives are human rights, then how can we place competitive sport as some kind of exemption where rights don’t apply? Clearly rights do matter when it comes to sport – no one is happy to learn of athletes being abused, or pressured into unhealthy training plans in search of ‘results’. And women have certainly fought hard enough to be allowed to participate that it seems fair to assume that participation should be seen as a right. I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I could be allowed to stand on a podium because someone else better than me wasn’t allowed to be there. That’s not protecting me, or women’s sports. That’s removing the human rights of others.
another period and page of posts has passed and still one of the very important parts of Hannah’s very well written and thought out piece is being roundly ignored.
I'm not entirely convinced it is that great e.g.
History is full of one part of society telling another part that they’re not allowed to do this or that,
Nobody is being told they can't compete. They just can't choose the sex they want to compete against
and
women have certainly fought hard enough to be allowed to participate that it seems fair to assume that participation should be seen as a right.
They did indeed, and now they usually have their own category where they compete against similar biological women (again, sex not gender)
Finally
am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I could be allowed to stand on a podium because someone else better than me wasn’t allowed to be there
this just seems to be mixing sex and gender again
As others have said, the current situation just looks like the least bad approach - for now.
P.S. despite this apparently not being a click-bait article - you know it's going to go on the STW Facebook feed and be a shit show
I’m an athletics coach, so obviously this is an area I’ve had to put some thought into. Full disclosure, I don’t, and never have coached a trans athlete, so I don’t yet have first hand experience of that.
But I have coached a lot of adults and children.
I believe everyone should be able to live the life they want to live, but I agree with British Cycling’s position at the moment, as I think it’s the best thing that can be done at the moment.
Sport and competition need to be seen as different things. Sport can be totally inclusive, but competition cannot, otherwise it’s no longer competition. And like it or not, for some people competition matters just as much as anything else. It can be their livelihood, it can be their passion, it can be how they define themselves, it can be how they express themselves. To them, it really matters.
And thus competition, not sport, needs to be fair. Not equal, but fair. Female competition categories exist primarily for a single reason. If they didn’t, a female athlete would never be able to win. And whether you like it or not, in competition winning is the whole point. It is why competition exists in sport.
It’s not just a problem for elite competition either, but amateur too. The same reasons why people compete at an elite level also exist at an amateur and grassroots level. How do I coach a 14 year old girl to her first county level 200m race and keep her in the sport, when a 14 year old boy who identifies as a girl could beat her without even training?
Whenever anyone chooses to pursue competition they make sacrifices. Whether that is not spending time with their family because they need to train, losing weight (gaining weight!), not having an income they’d like, or a social life, or a myriad of other things. There are always sacrifices to be made if you wish to excel in competition. And I feel that this is something that trans athletes perhaps need to consider. What is more important to them? The competition or the transition? Until there is a way to concretely determine that a transitioned male has no more advantage in a given sport than any female competitor, then in my opinion, they cannot compete. If the competition is more important, then they cannot transition until they no longer wish to compete.
But we are not denying people any rights any more than we are denying an older person to compete in a lower age category or an larger person to compete in a lower weight category, if we have sex based categories (that are separated based on innate advantages of one sex over another) then we need to have them as sex based not gender based.
Don't get me wrong I'd love there to be a time when nobody feels the need to be labelled and we are all considered as equals whatever sex gender or persuasion we are and I recognise the struggles that people who don't fit the so called normal pattern face but I think the whole sports gender/sex debate genuinely does them a disservice.
I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I could be allowed to stand on a podium because someone else better than me wasn’t allowed to be there.
So you'd be quite happy for a woman never to be stood atop of a podium again then, purely in the spirit of inclusivity? Or there any competitive sport in the world where a born woman would feature in the top 10 fastest times including both sexes?
I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I could be allowed to stand on a podium because someone else better than me wasn’t allowed to be there. That’s not protecting me, or women’s sports.
But this is a fundamental truth about the entirety of women's sports. The top woman is only there (in the vast vast majority of cases, sure there are about 3 exceptions worldwide) because men were not allowed to compete in the same event.
It's hard to know how to debate someone who either isn't aware of this, or chooses to ignore it completely. Without a boundary for what "woman" means in sport, there is no women's sport, and no women on podiums, anywhere, ever.
But we are not denying people any rights any more than we are denying an older person to compete in a lower age category or an larger person to compete in a lower weight category, if we have sex based categories (that are separated based on innate advantages of one sex over another) then we need to have them as sex based not gender based.
My daughter was (is) a black belt in Tae Kwon Do - 2nd Dan - so half sensible at it.
She did fine when competing as a child as classes were based on height not age. When she had to go to adult categories based on weight (like boxing) she didn't stand a chance. She's not even 5ft and the lowest weight was still way above her weight. She got pummelled every time she fought and eventually stopped. She didn't want to but accepted it was just how it is.
There is a very simple way of solving this, just dispose of gender catergories and have open competitions.
Competition is rarely fair so why worry.
I'd like to mention (again) that the definition of what it is to be a woman also has to consider the various DSD/intersex cases. While it's somewhat different, the issues are still quite similar: what is a "woman" for the purposes of competitive sport? I don't think the answer necessarily has to the the same for every sport.
There is a very simple way of solving this
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
Bruce
Full Member
There is a very simple way of solving this, just dispose of gender catergories and haveopenmens competitions
because this is what you'd end up with 99% of the time
and one more point (I know)
the ability to compete in elite level sports isn’t the problem.
It is if there is a trickle down and athletes who happen to be TG are no longer allowed to participate in 'grass roots' sports as a result. You might think it only matters at National / international level but there are many voices that feel it's unfair at all levels. And to reiterate - an 'other' category or 'they can still participate in means' is not a solution.
@thecaptain - the definition of "woman" also has to consider whether or not any form of chemical or surgical change has taken place, or are we happy that self-id is sufficient?
Coincidentally (or otherwise?), there's now a parallel thread on doping in sport, where it's generally accepted that folk need to be protected from themselves in their pursuit of competitive advantage. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile that with the notion that nobody would be willing to "fake" transition for the same reason, particularly if that transition amounted to little more than wearing pink. Various sports bodies allowing transitioned athletes were setting some boundaries (e.g. testosterone levels) but that's still exclusionary.
It is if there is a trickle down and athletes who happen to be TG are no longer allowed to participate in ‘grass roots’ Competition as a result.
To be blunt, it is unfair to expect grassroots competitions to allow TG athletes to have an unfair advantage over the other athletes in a competition. It's widely seen that keeping teenage girls in sport is already really difficult due to to a number of factors. Removing / reducing their ability to complete and win on a fair playing field is not going to help keep girls interested in sports.
So what about a grass roots women's football or netball team? Inclusive or exclusive? make them play in a men's team? Or a team only for transwomen?
Keeping all young people in sport for the health and mental benefits is important; I'd argue the MH impacts are even more so for someone to be accepted as they are and welcomed as a person rather than othered.
@bensales, great post.
Firstly, I respect that Hannah has chosen to write this. She will have known what the comments would look like and the potential backlash and did it anyway. That deserves credit.
I agree with much of written, but like many here, competitive sport is where I have questions.
This quote made me think:
"But then I saw a social media post from a trans athlete who should have been representing her country at the UCI World Championships."
Whilst this is true, that place on the team was taken was taken by someone else, someone who may well have been somewhat upset had that place on the team been taken by a trans woman.
It isn't a zero sum game, the place taken by the trans athlete could have been taken by a cis athlete.
Right now, what the cycling, swimming and running world is doing seems about right. It's not perfect, it's a bit blunt, but at the moment it seems like the best option.
There are basically four choices.
You allow anybody who has transitioned to compete as a woman.
You have one open category.
You make anybody who is trans compete with men.
You have an LBGT category.
None of the options are satisfactory.
<p style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; font-size: 16px; line-height: 1.5rem; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">So what about a grass roots women’s football or netball team? Inclusive or exclusive? make them play in a men’s team? Or a team only for transwomen?</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; font-size: 16px; line-height: 1.5rem; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Keeping all young people in sport for the health and mental benefits is important; I’d argue the MH impacts are even more so for someone to be accepted as they are and welcomed as a person rather than othered.</p>
<p> </p><p>and that’s where it’s difficult - I think there is two options; firstly is three categories - men, women and open. The other option of competing with it the sex category as assigned at birth. <br /><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"><br />On the whole, the first option of 3 categories is probably the least worst option </span></p>
None of the options are satisfactory.
Bingo, a bit like democracy it's the best bad solution that should prevail.
firstly is three categories – men, women and open.
Why 3? Women and Open would cover all bases. A third category for open strikes me as something that would get attention for all the wrong reasons
I know I said I wasn't going to get into this again but I couldn't help having a look. It's disappointing. I see multiple falsehoods and opinions being stated as fact and it's the same falsehoods and opinions that have been challenged and shown to be wrong or just opinions on multiple threads and yet every thread they are once again stated as facts.
I just have to remind myself that the UK is particularly hostile towards transgender people, people over 45 are particularly hostile to transgender people, and men are particularly hostile to transgender people. The demographics of this forum are very much skewed towards being a hostile crowd. Hence why @hannah sticking her head above the parapet was very much appreciated.
I particularly appreciate the 'scientists' who have turned up, as they always do. I tend to view people who say, 'I'm a scientist and biological sex is very simple' in the same way I view people who come into the bikeshop and say, 'I'm an engineer and...'
Funnily enough, you seldom hear anyone say, 'I'm a scientist in the field of Developmental Biology and biological sex is very simple.'
I just take solace from the fact that the younger generations are far more accepting than older generations and acceptance of transgender people is a question of time.
Oh, and if you are going to say that transwomen have a purely physical advantage over ciswomen in sport (as opposed to a cultural advantage by being raised as boys and thus having more access, support, and encouragement to take part in sport) then please show your working.
That means posting a link to research.
That doesn't mean posting a link to a BBC article reporting on the research.
It also doesn't mean posting a link to paywalled research that only gives you the abstract and conclusion.
Once you actually read some of the research, as I have, you realise the conclusions don't always tally with the results. And that's assuming there aren't glaring problems with the methodology to begin with. Which there always are.
The only conclusion you can really draw from the limited research so far is 'More research needed.' Which is made more difficult when you ban trans athletes. But I suspect that is the idea.
@scotroutes:
the definition of “woman” also has to consider whether or not any form of chemical or surgical change has taken place, or are we happy that self-id is sufficient?
Are you talking sex, or gender?
If we're talking sex - the definition is clear. It's genetic. And no amount of chemical or surgical operation can change that reality. You can suppress hormons, but if you grow up a girl or a boy then your body grows that way.
If we're talking gender - again surgery doesn't matter. The vast majority of transgender women still have penises. Does that mean they're not proper women? We've agreed that - when we're talking gender - that's not the case. So again, surgery or hormone replacement is largely irrelevant. Conversely - self-id is sensible, doesn't hurt anyone and allows transgender people the dignity to live their own reality.
You have to separate sex and gender. They're very different things.
You have an LBGT category.
What the hell would be the purpose of an 'LGBT Category' for sport? I am women and a lesbian. When I play competitive sports my sex (female) is important, my sexuality is irrelevant.
You have an LBGT category.
A category based partly on sexual preference?
This type of thread is just pure poison on here these days ☹️
I'm not here for a debate. In my books it's not a debate, it's a side show. Thank you Hannah for voicing your support.
What I will say is that trans elite athletes are a tiny percentage of a small percentage of the population. However, EVERY trans/non-binary person I know has seen a huge increase in the amount of hate and intolerance since this has become "news". So, just think before you speak/type please and thank you.
@ BruceWee Bravo sir! (Particularly the Engineer piece. . .)
@chevychase - I chose my words carefully by using woman and not female. I don't think that anyone on this thread believes one can change their sex. If self-id is sufficient then any category based on testosterone level or genital appearance is irrelevant anyway.
I’m not here for a debate. In my books it’s not a debate, it’s a side show. Thank you Hannah for voicing your support.
What I will say is that trans elite athletes are a tiny percentage of a small percentage of the population. However, EVERY trans/non-binary person I know has seen a huge increase in the amount of hate and intolerance since this has become “news”. So, just think before you speak/type please and thank you.
Most of the 'hate' you mention is just women asserting their boundaries. The 'news' is increasing awareness of the extent to which these boundaries are being trampled. Just a couple of weeks an established lesbian speed dating event was shut down due to complaints by trans rights activists. The complainants also reported the organiser to her employer in an attempt to rob her of her livelihood.
Most of the ‘hate’ you mention is just women asserting their boundaries.
Some are asserting their boundaries others are definitely not and for any other protected human characteristic they would be charged and prosecuted for their hateful language/actions.
Some are asserting their boundaries others are definitely not and for any other protected human characteristic they would be charged and prosecuted for their hateful language/actions.
Are you perhaps referring to the 9 protected characteristics in the UK's Equality Act? Sex is one of those characteristics, 'gender' is not (gender reassignment is) yet organisations everywhere are swapping sex for gender in their policies. My sex is a protected characteristic, so is my sexual orientation. You cannot discuss the issues without using clear language. Trans women should be excluded from women's sports because they are male. It is not hate to state that.
The attempts to confuse language are deliberate.
a number of people say once you read the research it becomes a little more muddled. I agree it’s not black and white.
there is no consensus between the IOC and British cycling for example, yet I expect both have done at least as much ‘research’ on the matter as any poster on here.
Until there is consensus, based on scientific evidence, I think the relevant sporting bodies should be allowed to reach their own conclusions based on what they think is fair for their sport. If that means it transpires later down the line that a small number of trans athletes are unfairly treated then that’s unfortunate, but far better that than woman’s sport as a whole suffering if the evidence comes down on the other side..imo
<span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">they would be charged and prosecuted for their hateful language/actions
</span>
Agreed, but I’m not seeing any of that on this thread. If a thread is started about this subject then it is to be expected that view and opinions on both sides are aired, and as long as that’s done respectfully then I don’t see the issue
just because someone thinks it doesn’t make for fair competition doesn’t make them a transphobe.
if alternate opinions aren’t welcome I suggest that threads started on this topic should be banned.
edit..what on earth is going on with the quote function on this site.!!
but I’m not seeing any of that on this thread
Pity the Mods. Imagine their delight in seeing yet another thread/article on this issue popping up. 😂
if alternate opinions aren’t welcome I suggest that threads started on this topic should be banned.
If a forum member had started this thread (or one of an opposing view) it would have been closed in double-quick time.
I support sporting categories that exclude.
I support categories that exclude on the basis of ability, so that disabled athletes can be included in sport.
I support categories that exclude on the basis of age, so that youth and senior athletes can be included in sport.
I support categories that exclude on the basis of sex, so that women can be included in sport.
Everyone here supports exclusion too. It’s simply a debate about whether the women’s category should exclude on the basis of sex or on the basis of gender identity.
Sex matters in sports, folks. That’s why we have women’s categories.
Nailed it. If we support separate categories for differently abled people then it's plainly obvious to me that separate categories for trans athletes are also required. You maximise inclusion through the process of exclusion.
Alot of of STW middle aged gammons have, and do, work in a very ‘inclusive’ environment – I know I do...But there is something a little different at elite sport level, and we have to acknowledge that. We can’t shuffle this under the table.
I mean, you and I (both middle aged gammons who aren't ever going to compete at elite level, I assume) could quite easily not bother to acknowledge it and shuffle it under the table. It would not make any difference to elite sport at all.
But if spout our opinions in a disrespectful or hateful way (and I am not saying you are, and I hope am I not), we could end up having this effect:
What I will say is that trans elite athletes are a tiny percentage of a small percentage of the population. However, EVERY trans/non-binary person I know has seen a huge increase in the amount of hate and intolerance since this has become “news”. So, just think before you speak/type please and thank you.
It does seem weird to discover such rabid support among my fellow male gammons for women's rights, despite so few having ever done much for women's sport before the "trans issue"...
Like many I've been pondering this for quite a while, expressed my views, and probably altered them a bit as the whole concept matured. We are clearly a long way from resolved however.
Where I have come to is that both 'sides' could do with a bit more understanding and cooperation.
1. Sports and their governing bodies - people 'playing' or doing their sport at a recreational level is a great thing - great for the popularity of the sport you care about but far more importantly great for the participants overall well being. Making your sport welcoming and accessible for anyone of any gender at any level so they can do it recreationally should be the primary aim of every governing body - more important than elite sports. Very easy for a sport like cycling - buy bike, then go ride. Job jobbed. No need for it to be a race and start dividing participants up - just a road or a track and crack on. Do it solo, do it with friends or clubmates. Do it for the scenery, do it for the social aspect or do it to destroy yourself physically - it's all good. Probably a lot harder for sports where doing it by necessity involves competition - you need someone to play and winning or losing is inherent to participation. But find a way - it's your job. Too many sports (and cycling pretty much falls into this) have the narrative that "once you are competent, you can turn it into a competition". That where I ended up with cycling. It's bollox - yes competition is one way forwards, but how about a default mindset change - why do we need to make it about competition at all?
2. The transgender participants - If we are allowed to talk in collectives, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is a lot of egocentric thinking going on - it's all about them as far as some of them are concerned. What can they do, what are they entitled to do or are being deprived of. I think in the big scheme of things too much of a shit is being given. I sit here as a man, and I'm lucky in that I've never gone through the anxiety of questioning it. But if I did go through that momentous change being able to participate in competitive sport would be way way way down on my list of priorities of what would most important to me going forward. Maybe it's easier to be objective because it's not about me; but I could totally see that some would question any unfair advantage I might have from my past history. They might not be right - hell, as a science orientated person I'd probably want to be a research subject in some research to help further the understanding. But whatever, I would not be stamping my feet and making it about me - I wouldn't want it in my head. With so much going on in my life and so many many alternative things I could be doing in my life I just don't think I'd be going there. I'd probably be riding a bike or paddling a kayak to view the scenery, have social time or beast myself....just like I do right now.
So to conclude - governing bodies need to make access for all to recreationally participate a much higher priority than it does, trans wannabe competitors need to get some perspective, and we all need to chill and stop making competition outside of our professional lives such a biggie - we'd all be better off for it.
Sidenote - if we are talking professional participation....someone with better statistical analysis might be able to help...what proportion of the population are predisposed to elite level sporting performance - one in a thousand, one in 10 thousand? And what proportion of people born biologically male are considering a gender change - surely a similarly tiny number. If the distribution was even between the two groupings the intersection between the two must be microscopic - one in a million, 10 million of the population maybe. Please lets not have all policy dictated to make judgments for this tiny group when getting everyone enjoying life and just plain participating, regardless of gender is so much more important.
Sidenote to the sidenote - if I was a male athlete and was very much a mediocre also-ran in terms of performance who then changed gender to female and found I was suddenly capable of elite performance I might be having a word with myself about why that be. If I was still an also ran I probably would be kicking off about wanting to carry on participating for wellbeing reasons because I'm still no threat to the medal tables or taking someonelse's funding.
BruceWee
Oh, and if you are going to say that transwomen have a purely physical advantage over ciswomen in sport (as opposed to a cultural advantage by being raised as boys and thus having more access, support, and encouragement to take part in sport) then please show your working.
That means posting a link to research.
That doesn’t mean posting a link to a BBC article reporting on the research.
It also doesn’t mean posting a link to paywalled research that only gives you the abstract and conclusion.
Once you actually read some of the research, as I have, you realise the conclusions don’t always tally with the results. And that’s assuming there aren’t glaring problems with the methodology to begin with. Which there always are.
The only conclusion you can really draw from the limited research so far is ‘More research needed.’ Which is made more difficult when you ban trans athletes. But I suspect that is the idea.
I'm just gonna come out and say it: I'm not smart enough to be pointing out errors in scientific research in a field I am not an expert in.
I let the experts do the research and trust the peer review process to ensure it is valid, and I think it is entirely reasonable for a lay person to do this.
If however somebody is smart enough to do so, then I would dearly hope that they write to the authors of the paper and the editors of the publication to inform them of the errors, rather than just asserting that the research is invalid on a mountain biking forum.
if I did go through that momentous change being able to participate in competitive sport would be way way way down on my list of priorities of what would most important to me going forward.
Anyone undertaking a F-M transition will have had to face this issue already as there are few sports where they'd expect to remain competitive, but those aren't the transgender voices we all hear.
let the experts do the research and trust the peer review process to ensure it is valid, and I think it is entirely reasonable for a lay person to do this.
agreed, but the ‘experts’ have come to different conclusions, which imo is where the issue lies. If every scientist with knowledge of the subject said they have a distinct advantage, then the arguement would be purely about inclusivity. And for me fairness for majority trumps the right to play competitive sport for the minority
but it’s not that clear cut, otherwise why has the IOC not banned trans athletes? Brucewee’s opinion based on what he has read is valid, as you’ll find qualified people who actually know what they are talking about agreeing with him. Equally you’ll fine many opposing viewpoints within the scientific field
i suspect that both sides may be right to an extent, some trans athletes will retain an advantage whilst others may not. How do you possibly legislate for that?
I chose my words carefully by using woman and not female.
Unfortunately, you can choose those words as carefully as you like - woman and female can be used to describe either or both of sex or gender.
Language - especially English - is the root of a lot of these problems. There are 18 different words in Thai to describe different genders and there ain't the same outrage over there as there is here.
We should be doing that in English too...
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If M-F trans are allowed to compete then, given the history of elite sport, it doesn’t take that much of a leap to suggest that some nations, of a more authoritarian regime, would quite happily have athletes transition in the name of national pride and winning lots of elite sport. Many virtually did this via doping in the past, do people not think this would be exploited in the same way?</span>
Anyone undertaking a F-M transition will have had to face this issue already as there are few sports where they’d expect to remain competitive, but those aren’t the transgender voices we all hear.
Yes, good point. I suppose they would not be officially excluded but might well find themselves effectively rejected from their current sport as where they were once the first name on the team sheet, they can no longer even get a place to warm a seat on the bench. And yet for lots of very good reasons they still went ahead with their decision. It would be interesting to hear the story of someone who undertook a F-M transition and how they tackled a change in mindset towards sport afterwards or if they went off and found other things to fill their recreational time.
