Do I think that male bike mechanics conspire to exclude others from their 'hierarchy of knowledge?
Do I think that male bike mechanics conspire to exclude others from their ‘hierarchy of knowledge?
Do you think that a male bike mechanic has never taken the piss out of, or made an unwanted advance at, or talked down to a female customer?
Discrimination doesn't have to be a deliberate conspiracy to be real.
Perhaps, but the assertion is evidence-free. A few anecdotes don't prove anything. We've all encountered asshole people.
That sounds like a great event @ahsat. I saw some photos on Instagram of a similar ride in the New Forest that looked great.
Oh yes, I would have loved to have stayed for that. It was New Forest Off-road Club's 1-year anniversary. A perfect example of the power of woman/NB led activities to encourage others into cycling https://www.instagram.com/newforestoffroadclub/?hl=en
Going slightly off tangent, I watched the recording of that last night, as I’m a big fan of the videos Lael puts out, but was really interested in Emily’s comment about the number of openly gay women racing endurance but not so many (any?) openly gay men. Not just an issue/non-issue in cycling though, of course.
Yes this was a really interesting and important point. Several of us were discussing it the following morning at the Rapha breakfast. I don't have the answers. My brother is a gay man, and would be an awesome cyclist (absolutely pulls my legs off), but can't be bothered with the faff and far prefers the gym. But he is just one person with his own views.
Do you think that a male bike mechanic has never taken the piss out of, or made an unwanted advance at, or talked down to a female customer?
Yep! Been on the receiving end of that - lots! And in academia, where I am an Associate Prof. And in the street, getting my car serviced, at the climbing wall.... etc etc
The thing is that men also talk down to and take the piss out of other men. We don't form some kind of holy brotherhood! I'll grant you that men aren't hit on as often, but we're in danger of seeing any hint of a sexual advance as some kind of transgression by default. I don't think that's healthy.
A few anecdotes don’t prove anything.
What, you don't believe there is any sexism?
The thing is that men also talk down to and take the piss out of other men.
Yes, of course they do, but as a man who listens to women I can assure you it's nothing like on the same scale. Not even close.
Thing is - you're asserting there isn't a problem. And yet, there are millions of women and trans* people telling you there is a problem. Why don't you believe them?
It’s because the implication is that a vast swathe of the population are born villains.
I have no idea how you reach that conclusion. Are you in the closet? Homophobia on your level often comes from the closet
I have no idea how you reach that conclusion. Are you in the closet? Homophobia on your level often comes from the closet
No idea what you're talking about. Intersectionality asserts that white men are the oppressor class, i.e, born villains.
More and more in life I am reminded of the saying “there are none so blind as those who will not see”.
@i_scoff_cake How many times have you taken YOUR bike/car to be repaired which you are paying for, and the mechanic talked to your wife/gf about the work needed/done, solely because of your gender?
"oh boo hoo hoo. I'm a hard done by middle aged white man. It's so unfair when anybody that isn't exactly like me is given any of the advantages I've had in life"
Get over yourselfs boomers, the world has changed.
Intersectionality asserts that white men are the oppressor class, i.e, born villains.
No, I think you've misunderstood.
Society is the problem, not actual men. Well - some men are, they are the ones deliberately trying to perpetuate the status quo.
All that's required is to listen to people and understand their concerns. That's all. If you don't do this then yes, you are part of the problem. Regardless of your gender and colour.
@ahsat Don't you think that we're in danger of raising a whole generation of women who just can't interact with men because they view them as inherently strange and dangerous? One thing I've noticed over the years is that women who have brothers are much better at dealing with men. They respect them but don't take them too seriously and they know how to assert themselves. Good advice in life.
Society is the problem, not actual men.
It's always some great abstract process that's to blame but it's people who go to the gulag or get made an unperson.
go to the gulag
So much drama. What was it over again? More women learning (and then teaching) how to fix bikes? Get some perspective.
Given you don’t really read or listen to what I say, I’m going to only reply once more. I have a brother (see above), I never said I find the vast majority of men strange or dangerous (Christ I’ve hung out here for 12 years, mtb and work in a male dominated field!) but I have many many times not be considered equal or capable solely because of my gender (and trust me I’m pretty capable!). Therefore initiatives such as the one given at the start, provide a welcoming space for minorities to learn new skills.
Right, that’s it from me. I’m off to chat to my woman-led bike club 🙂
Y'know there's something wrong when minorities learning new skills gets more flak than a Rapha breakfast! 😉
Seriously, this is a good news story. Less gulag and more dignity please.
Intersectionality does not assert that white men are an oppressor class. The definition of intersectionality is “the interconnected nature of social categorisations such as race, class, and gender, regarded as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage”.
Y’know there’s something wrong when minorities learning new skills gets more flak than a Rapha breakfast! 😉
Proper laughed at that. Another peak STW
It’s always some great abstract process that’s to blame but it’s people who go to the gulag or get made an unperson.
Really? I have to say, I rarely get any flak from feminists, trans people, gay people or women in general. I'd like to think it's because I make an effort to try and understand the situation. Sometimes I get it wrong, they explain and I apologise.
If you are being criticised or 'sent to the gulag' perhaps it's because you aren't listening?
I bet STW are really chuffed with their decision to link homepage news stories directly to the forum. It's gone really well here.
Person 1. "I'm cold."
Person 2. "You can't be I'm hot, it can't be cold as I don't feel cold."
Person 1. "but you're by the heater."
Person 2. "I can't see the heater. I'm not cold."
Person 1. "Its just behind you turn around."
Person 2. "I'm not cold you can't be cold, its not cold."
Person 1. "I am cold, can I at least wear my jacket?"
Person 2. "I'm not cold you can't be cold, its not cold. No jackets."
I bet STW are really chuffed with their decision to link homepage news stories directly to the forum. It’s gone really well here.
Better than the Facebook cesspit.
I actually think this debate has been quite good with a few folk trying to explain and few folk outing themselves as homophobes / transphobes
I don't care who services my bikes, probably still going to do it better than me when I am out of my depth on a repair.
Is it more the 'Funded' wording that has upset people ? Surely the courses would offer help to anyone who struggles to afford a course, regardless of gender/race etc.
Having a safe space training zone for people who want it makes no difference to anyone, hell a course that took longer to explain to us slower on the uptake old un's would be appreciated.
We all are riders, we are one community, and great friends come in all forms if you let them.