Don, the answer given only answers the question on a very simplistic level. Edit, infact it doesn't really answe the question at all, but does solve the problem. There is more that can and has been explored plus three pages are needed to dedicate to abuse.
Just noticed the 'how many times do you land on your head' posts. And I am surprised head/----- interfaces aren't that common.
I've broken three lids since the days of the first Tomac hardshells.
Slipped on diesel and my head slid into the kerb, broken Bell.
Hit a fallen branch training on my usual XC route, broken Met.
Hit by car, head hit tarmac, broken Giro.
I've had no end of impacts with things across the trail that weren't there the day before!
When we wore the hairnet lids for racing and never for training, I broke my nose twice and lost teeth on three occassions. At least since I've been wearing a lid I've not bust or lost any body parts.
So I'm surprised that lots of folk haven't hit their heads whilst riding and thought 'good job I was wearing a lid'
I will say, a lot of the older clubs and older riders don't wear them.
how do you make them less sweaty.
Sweating is not bad. Sweating is healthy.
Fourbanger, it's a very simple question.
Fourbanger - what answer is going to satisfy you?
I suspect that they believe that having a helmet is safer or cooler or looks better, or reduces the chance of them being inconvenienced by you cracking your nut. Doesn't really matter which. They want to ride with people who conform to their values and rules. Arguing the toss with them or looking for a cast iron reason which would convince you who does not want to conform to these rules is pointless. Perhaps your unwillingness to conform to this team approach also will tell them something about how you might fit in?
If you need to query this you need to ride with someone else.
despite the idiocy of some comments on this thread from both sides and the temptation to respond I'm not going to rise to it... I'm intelligent enough to decide when and when not to wear *insert protective thing here* when I'm doing *insert activity here*
what I am curious to know is this...
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...
I understand and respect your right to choose to wear, or not wear a helmet.
I also understand and respect their right to *ask* you to wear a lid if you want to join their club rides, or even to refuse you entry into their club (if it has a proper membership subs etc).
But I do not understand them saying that you can't ride *with* them. Unless it is on private land then you are be free to ride the same route at the same speed and they can only *ask* you to wear a lid, not force you. What would they do if you turned up again and refused? just stand there and not do their club ride? I think not....
They could of course blank you the whole way and not interact with you in any way. Could be fun to turn up to half a dozen rides with them without a lid and chat merrily away to them as you ride and see what happens 🙂
Matt
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...
I'm intelligent enough
😆
amedias, a bit creepy though.
Don, the answer given only answers the question on a very simplistic level. Edit, infact it doesn't really answe the question at all
I'm at something of a loss as to know what sort of answer you are expecting? Are you expecting people to say that this case breaches fundamental human rights? Is it an example of the tyranny of the majority view? You asked a simple question: You got a simple answer. What's the problem?
creepy maybe, might not even be very enjoyable for either party, but it this kind of thing annoys me.
don simon - I said i was intelligent enough to work out what to wear and when, not that I knew anything about the intricacies of roadie club rides 🙂
I should know this really, but clubs under the BC are encouraged to produce a set of rules or a code of good practice for their members.
Riders pay membership to enjoy the benefits that a club can offer including insurance, and the BC do push the wearing of helmets.
I do feel that this again is a dig at clubs rather than the issue of wearing hemets. Especially road clubs. And bear in mind that many road club members are engaged in a sporting aspect of cycling all of which will enforce the wearing of helmets.
That said the wearing of a helmet is just a given amongst roadies, just like wearing shoes for riding in, we just do it, it's not an issue.
[b]Amedias[/b] annoying you to the point of forcing yourself on people who don't want you? 🙁
Why does it annoy you?
TBH I would have thought that most people would know that wearing a helmet is a requirement of a club ride.
No one rejected the OP,and they have invited him back to join them, but asked if he would wear a helmet.
As I mentioned above, clubs are asked to provide a set of rules for such ride. The BC guidline on this says 'riders MUST wear helmets.
It is rather strange after all I feel to join a club and not expect to have to concede to any rules. That is the nature of clubs, again I thought this would be common knowledge.
The OP has been asked to do just one thing, if the OP does not want to do this one thing, then perhaps finding another club might be a good idea.
I don't think persuing them, and becoming an agitator a very good idea. I'm pretty certain neither side would enjoy it, it just seems to lack any social grace. Rather like the dog walker that insisted on letting his dog off the lead and poo'ing on the grass in the middle of a kids football match, yes he had every right to be there as he did every other day, but most folk would accept him as a social retard.
Oldgit
As I mentioned above, clubs are asked to provide a set of rules for such ride. The BC guidline on this says 'riders MUST wear helmets.
Where is this written? I don't know of any clubs around here which enforce this rule and they are all are BC affiliated, I know it's a requirment for BC racing (but not the arguably larger sport of time trialing) but have never come across the idea of BC having any input on club runs
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...I understand and respect your right to choose to wear, or not wear a helmet.
I also understand and respect their right to *ask* you to wear a lid if you want to join their club rides, or even to refuse you entry into their club (if it has a proper membership subs etc).
[b]But I do not understand them saying that you can't ride *with* them.[/b]
I can, and can quite easily see them vocalising it if you wind them up by doing this if they continue to request that you wear a helmet if riding in their group. Being a twunt isn't going to change their minds 😉
Not the law of the land....but
Have a predetermined start time and communicate the route to all participants.
All participants should comply with the Highway Code.
All adult participants are responsible for their own well-being during the ride and
should be prepared for situations such as adverse weather conditions,
mechanical problems and flat tyres.
Have emergency procedures and communicate them to all participants. This
should include emergency procedures for incidents that riders may experience
during a ride (eg punctures, mechanical problems, changes in environmental
conditions, accidents involving one or more members of the group).
Have procedures in place to ensure that individual riders are not left on their
own during the session.
All riders should be aged 12 years or older, and be competent at a level
equivalent to the Level 2 Cycle Training Standards.
There is a greater duty of care for riders under the age of 18 years. Therefore, if
there are riders aged 12-18 years in the group, somebody will need to take
responsibility for these riders and ensure they are not left on their own during
the session.
Have a signed parental consent form for all riders under the age of 18 years.
All riders should be encouraged to take part in activities that are within their
capabilities.
All riders must wear a helmet
flid lid
What's a flid?
fit people and those of the correct weight sweat less as a general rule.
Lol. Bollox. Especially when you are using ephedrine or yohimbine etc.
"I should know this really, but clubs under the BC are encouraged to produce a set of rules or a code of good practice for their members.
Riders pay membership to enjoy the benefits that a club can offer including insurance, and the BC do push the wearing of helmets."
I don't ride in Britain (at the moment).
There are no subs.
My insurance is paid by me.
That said the wearing of a helmet is just a given amongst roadies, just like wearing shoes for riding in
That's not always been the case though has it? Only really relatively recently in the history of competitive cycling has it been a "given".
I don't ride in Britain (at the moment).
Where are you riding, at the moment?
Helmets have been compulsory in NZ for as long as I can remember, and the constabulary are quite happy to pull u and ticket u for not wearing one. Whiles there's been many great debates on the merits or otherwise, it's now seen as the norm.
The upside is every kid grabs his helmet first, it's not seen as "spazzy" or otherwise, it's become the norm and I'm sure many spills have been lessened as a result, mine included.
Kids like to emulate, be it cycle helmets, rugby head gear (aka the proliferation of black covers with peace symbols following mr kronfields protest) or Steve Peat body armour.
I guess that's why clubs have their policy, set the example.
The upside is every kid grabs his helmet first
The downside being (I read) that less are choosing to ride now.
Actually, forcing people to wear a helmet to nip down to the shops for instance is redicules. I accept the risk of falling in a chain gang might be higher and offroad probably higher still, but the risk riding to the shops at a sedate pace is insignificant. I can't see it being any higher than walking to the shops. This is a step too far.
Where are you riding fourbanger? The reason for the questionis that wearing a lid is a legal requirement in Spain, it won't be the club telling you, it'll be the Guardia Civil. And clearly will have an effect on the question.
Sorry don simon, didn't answer you. I'm in the middle east. Think loons in 4x4's careering past at 200Km/h whilst I'm sweating my body weight on the hardshoulder of the 8 lane highway, which is really the only place to ride. No legislation relating to helmet use exists here. If I get hit, chances are the verdict will be I shouldn't have been (in the country) here.
If I get hit, chances are the verdict will be I shouldn't have been (in the country) here.
I think that can be taken for granted.
Is it too much to ask to wear a helmet so that you can participate in something you enjoy?
Doesn't seem like too high a price to pay.
Heat wise, I tried both with or without the helmet and found the shade offered by the helmet was much more comfortable than having the sun direct on my head, only 40ºC there mind.
The downside being (I read) that less are choosing to ride now.
My Mrs is a casual cyclist, she cycles mainly on forest trails with the dog and her health benefits from it. Rightly or wrongly, if she was forced to wear a helmet I doubt she would ever get on the bike again.
Twice a helmet has saved me from serious head injuries. Once on my commute onto tarmac which left me with a very sore neck for weeks but saved me.
First time I had no idea who the Prime minister was/is when asked. I remember getting very frustrated as I knew the answer and throwing up. If I wasn't wearing it then I imagine itd been very serious.
At the end of the day OP its your life however its unfair to expect your GF and/or Mother to take you to the toilet and bathe you for life huh
don simon, you have to believe me when I say that no one on this earth has quite as much of an interest in keeping me alive as I do!
As I said, I'm taking a fairly high risk by riding on the road and I think anyone that does serious road miles does the same. If I have an accident it'll be me being splatted by a landcruiser or I'll be a stain under the wheels of an artic. A helmet simply won't offer protection from by far the most likely cause of my untimely dimise.
If I wanted to mitigate the risk of my death on the road, the only real way to do that would be to not be on the road. Taking such a massive risk by being there in the first place and trying to reduce it by wearing a helmet just isn't logical to me. It's reducing the overal risk by such a tiny amount that it ends up being some kind of lucky charm.
OK, to ride with a group I can compromise my beliefs. I guess it just depends how badly I want to ride with a group. I just can't imagine asking someone to compromise their thought-out belief in order to participate, when it will have no direct effect on anyone else.
Anyway, does anyone know of any cheap road lids on offer? Mine has a peak and that would never do.
[i]OK, to ride with a group I can compromise my beliefs. I guess it just depends how badly I want to ride with a group. I just can't imagine asking someone to compromise their thought-out belief in order to participate, when it will have no direct effect on anyone else. [/i]
so your rights are everything and theirs are nothing ?
mightymarmite - MemberHelmets have been compulsory in NZ for as long as I can remember, and the constabulary are quite happy to pull u and ticket u for not wearing one. Whiles there's been many great debates on the merits or otherwise, it's now seen as the norm.
The upside is every kid grabs his helmet first, it's not seen as "spazzy" or otherwise, it's become the norm and I'm sure many spills have been lessened as a result, mine included.
Unfortunatly the research show no significant reduction in head injuries, massive reduction in people cycling and hundreds of extra deaths as a result of people stopping cycling
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4689
How do you infer that? (klunk)
Thats what the research says - the CTC estimate 200 extra people would die each year if helmets were compulsoy in the UK 10 deaths from head injuries saved, an extra 200+ deaths fro diseases of inactivity
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4641
That was aimed at klunk.
TJ, I've warned you before about bringing tangible evidence to the thread in the face of such overwhelming anecdote.
Sorry.
Thats what the research says - the CTC estimate 200 extra people would die each year if helmets were compulsoy in the UK 10 deaths from head injuries saved, an extra 200+ deaths fro diseases of inactivity
I'll always wear a helmet and will always recommend people to wear one but if they say No that's their choice.
I completely agree with the study above and would be against compulsory wearing of helmets for adults (kids is different IMHO but not really looking it fully)
The £90 tesco bike crew would rather walk than wear a helmet for example.
My dad has started leading some mtb rides, and hasn't quite decided whether he should make people wear helmets. I've told him he should. I would not want to have to deal with someone who has glanced their head off a rock or tree and has a massive head injury because they couldn't be bothered with a helmet. Exactly the same applies to road.
Except the risk of slipping and banging your head on the road is tiny compared to being taken out by a motorised vehicle where a helmet will have negligible effectiveness. The activities aren't the same, the risks aren't the same. The two aren't comparable.
[i]How do you infer that? (klunk) [/i]
fourbanger, you refuse to except it's their right not to ride with you if you're not wearing a lid.
Klunk, no I don't, but I do question the mentality and thinking behind it.
you've been bitching about it for 6 pages, get over yourself.
JHC ... I was reading this during breakfast yesterday and thought
just about sums it up.its your choice not to wear a lid, but their choice not to ride with you if you're not wearing one.simple
they have just as much right to make that choice as you do yours.
... nope, the whittering continues ... 🙄
I have to ask, those that don't wear helmets do you insist your kids don't wear helmets also?
Just read some of the things certain club riders are responsible for. Under my duty of care I'd want youth riders to wear lids, and I'd be pretty pissed off if senior riders didn't lead by that example.
You can fire off your arguments, BTW how many times have you severely hit your unhelmetsed head? I'll just say that when 'that' time comes you'll be glad you had a lid on.
As I said, I'm taking a fairly high risk by riding on the road and I think anyone that does serious road miles does the same. If I have an accident it'll be me being splatted by a landcruiser or I'll be a stain under the wheels of an artic. A helmet simply won't offer protection from by far the most likely cause of my untimely dimise.
My sincere apologies, I hadn't realised (really I hadn't) that this was a debate about the safety issues of a helmet. Your opening line of
First and foremost I DO NOT want another helmet debate as it's getting dull.
must have confused me.
I have to ask, those that don't wear helmets do you insist your kids don't wear helmets also?
No of course not.
BTW how many times have you severely hit your unhelmetsed head?
unhelmetsed? WTF? at a guess I'd say a few less times than you. 😛
unhelmetsed
Obviously they didn't do the job 100%
Except the risk of slipping and banging your head on the road is tiny compared to being taken out by a motorised vehicle where a helmet will have negligible effectiveness. The activities aren't the same, the risks aren't the same. The two aren't comparable.
This is just silly. I'm calling troll, and I'm out.
I have to ask, those that don't wear helmets do you insist your kids don't wear helmets also?
Don't have kids but if I did I would probably both wear a helmet for all riding, and insist they did the same..
oldgit - Member
I have to ask, those that don't wear helmets do you insist your kids don't wear helmets also?Just read some of the things certain club riders are responsible for.
Not got kids so if i had would I?, don't know maybe because their bike handling skills and roadcraft may not be as advanced, maybe not because nobody wore helmets when I was a kid and I don't know anyone who ended up in a wheelchair as a result. and whatever my desicion the fact that I choose not wear a helmet on the road would not change if I decided they had to
I lead runs in a road club, I organise mtb runs for the same club and at work, I organise the club tt series - my only liability is ensuring the tt's meet the agreed risk assesments. I am not repsonsible for people on club runs, it's their choice to ride along with me there's no payment, contract or agreement that I'll nanny them along.
I insist my kids (4yrs and 5 yrs) wear a helmet and I have to lead by example.
If any other kids want to ride in our group and they don't have helmets they are simply told to f off.
If any other kids want to ride in our group and they don't have helmets they are simply told to f off.
Be very careful with this strategy as they are likely to come on an online forum and start complaining.
I will say I'm using a fairly basic lid at the mo, after the Giro smashing. And it is a bit pants, it's not making me sweat but I do get a nice waterfall effect with it, and it also has a weird 'bit' at the front that got in the way of my vision.
Realman
Fear not,help is at hand .....>
[url= 
]This[/url]
Seems that the main types are Tosserlad,Rimetosser and Ringlefinch 😯
Brilliant 😀
[url=
I insist my kids (4yrs and 5 yrs) wear a helmet and I have to lead by example
Why do you have to lead by example? I manual most of the way to School with mine without a helmet on while they do, they also can't manual.
Unfortunatly the research show no significant reduction in head injuries, massive reduction in people cycling and hundreds of extra deaths as a result of people stopping cycling
You should pop down Rotorua way, or any school bike shed in nz for that matter then come back with the statistics of the "massive reduction" in cycling caused by compulsive liddery. Sure didn't look like it last time I looked, in fact quite the opposite. Anecdotal definately ... But then 92% of statistics are made up anyway.
maybe they did not want to ride with you again and knew you would be childish enough to spit the dummy if they insisted you wore a helmet
I struggle with long sentences but after the first page I really cannot beleive the flaming the OP is getting. Club rules is club rules, up to them and you can't really complain. Some guy sued his club after ending up disabled after a crash, I bet all club rules have been tightened up since then.
However helmet choice is still personal preference and should remain so (IMHO) all the cycling organisations I know of are anticompulsion. I know that Cracknell dude wants it coz a lorry driver hit him on the head but not sure why he's not campaigning to get lorry drivers not to hit cyclists instead 🙄 Get hit by a car at 30mph and your inch of polystyrene aint going to do you much good. So can we chill with the "you're a retard if you don't wear a lid" comments.
for the record I wear a helmet pretty much all the time off road and [i]mostly [/i] on road too but that's to (maybe) help protect my head if I do something stupid and fall off [b]not[/b] to protect me against 1 tonne of speeding metal or to absolve drivers of responsibility.
I would just put one on, get on and enjoy the riding.
It's not about what you wear / don't wear its about the ride!
Kids wearing helmets to ride on the road defeats natural selection horribly. If they really can't do it then we are much better off without them whether you like it or not. 🙂
But then 92% of statistics are made up anyway.
you just being funny right?