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I keep thinking I'd like an XC race-ish hardtail frame, Al. Something simple light and effective, fun on average XC trails, not too head-down. 110mm SIDs, Decent trail tyres, a higher-rise bar. Downcountry maybe but more like 2-3hr loops at a pace and I like climbs as well as the descents. The Scalpel HT layout is good but carbon only now.
Can't see much in Al apart from the Procaliber and Chisel. Procaliber looks more my thing reach/front end geometry-wise apart from a slack ST angle and a daft 90mm head tube in size L that maybe a typo. I'm also too tight to pay £999 for a Chisel frame.
I looked at Mondraker but they're all carbon. Al Scott Scale frames don't seem available, only full bikes. Am I missing anything obvious? Is there anything Al, <67 HTA for short forks and decent reach for a 50-60mm max stem?
I bought a Cannondale Trail SE not long ago for the frame, having bought one for my GF... Lovely frame too! It's under 4lb, 66.5HA with a 120mm fork... I bought a complete bike "as new" (it was a C2W purchase that got ridden around the block once) for £450... Even managed to sell the Rockshox Judy off it and repurpose the 11spd Deore stuff elsewhere too... This was after looking at Chisels and deciding they absolutely weren't worth the extra cash, even for the 1/2 price deals that were going on full bikes a while back.
The thing is now, I actually haven't built it up and used it for myself, and I can't see it happening any time either now given my health and work situation! 😂 It's just sat there waiting... It's a Large if it was of any interest... I've even got some brand new 120mm SID Selects to go with it too with a very long steerer still.
Same as this if it was of interest... https://www.cannondale.com/en/bikes/mountain/trail-bikes/trail/trail-se-3
Not Alu, but Cotic have the Solaris in Green size C4 on offer at £899.
Alu options seem to be limited.
Clockwork Evo? Discounted on the Orange website.
Not alu, but i loved my One One whippet for this sort of stuff.
Chisel is a really nice bike and builds up very light. It's always been much better value as a bike. I'd be tempted to look for a second hand bike in your size and vgv, then strip it and rebuild with parts of your choice.
Trail SE is a good option, I was hoping to pick up a frame while I was at CSG but it didn’t happen. I think it’s too short though, I’d need a long stem to get enough room on it. Or the XL.
Solaris looks lovely but I want to try out the snappy feedback of an Al frame.
Assumed the Orange would be a bit trail weight or chunky but it’s a good shout. My early 90s XC race bike was an Aluminium O. Wish they made a proper XC bike still. Most brands seem to make something beefier or it’s high end steel or carbon for short forks.
Chisel is a really nice bike and builds up very light. It's always been much better value as a bike. I'd be tempted to look for a second hand bike in your size and vgv, then strip it and rebuild with parts of your choice.
It does look good. Might hold out for a SH frame set.
Wish they made a proper XC bike still.
You're about a year early. My prediction remains that we'll see a return to simple XC hardtails in 2027.
Trail SE is a good option, I was hoping to pick up a frame while I was at CSG but it didn’t happen. I think it’s too short though, I’d need a long stem to get enough room on it. Or the XL.
Only 10mm shorter reach than the Scalpel HT size for size, and I think that's to do with being measured with a 120mm fork rather than a 100 or 110...
I replaced my alloy pro calibre with a chisel, I have a small Chisel and it has a long top tube where as in the Trek I rode a medium. The medium Chisel just felt way too long in the top-tube for me.
I've got a Chisel too (Chisel Comp actually). Picked it up as a complete bike for pretty much half price in an insane end-of-season sale. It's the HT, it was before they introduced the FS version.
Plus points - it's brilliant, a really nice bike. Handles very well, very capable (much more so than me but you can say that about most bikes!). The frame is fantastic and they apparently build up very light, I've seen some YouTube stuff where they've been built up with top of the range kit and they can be everything from a full on XC race bike to a light / fast trail machine.
Downsides - Buying as a complete bike gets you a frankly fairly average build at best. SRAM GX / NX mix (it works well but it weighs a ton), RS Judy Gold forks (functional but heavy) and a load of no-name / own-brand alloy finishing kit. It all works fine. It is not light.
I swapped the bars for some Prime carbon ones which I got for £15 in the CRC closing down sale (instead of something like £140!). That dropped a load of weight and improved comfort no end. Oh and I swapped the woeful SRAM brakes for some XT ones, again on a half price sale. That made a huge difference, like actually being able to control speed.
But its potential could really be improved by putting it on a diet.
My daughter's small is 10.7kg with rebas, slx/deore mix, DT 350s on the stock rims, flat pedals and an one up dropper. Sub 10 should be easily achievable.
What are these like?
https://kinesisbikes.co.uk/collections/framesets/products/kinesis-frame-ff29-black
Although they seem to be designed around a longer fork than the OP's Rebas.
Only 10mm shorter reach than the Scalpel HT size for size
RE the Scalpel, so it is - for some reason I had 460 in mind, it's 450. That would fit ok with an XC race stem length but I have a different layout in mind.
It's the DSW frame of the Chisel that appeals, heard good things about it. It's only 5mm longer than the Scalpel though.
You're about a year early.
It's been suggested as the answer to 'what comes after gravel?' for a while and the potential extent of it is a good debate.
What are these like?
https://kinesisbikes.co.uk/collections/framesets/products/kinesis-frame-ff29-black
Although they seem to be designed around a longer fork than the OP's Rebas.
I was looking at these, but no reviews or owner experiences that I could find. Even joined the Kinesis owners group on FB (but it's very very quiet on there!)
I was still really tempted, but a Pipedream Moxie frame came up and I went for that instead (not as a XC bike by any stretch, but an immensely capable and fun SS Trail HT).
I reckon the Kinesis would be a good frame, but it is designed as a more trail-focussed rather than strictly XC frame/bike.
I was finding my Nukeproof scout too much for XC bashing and also not comfy at all, although swapping the Assguy and DHR2 for XC tyres did help slightly, I bit the bullet on the Chisel FS, its a lovely bike which is a nice place to be for 2-3 hour rides, maybe consider second-hand frameset or complete too...
Sonder Falco? 66-Deg Head Angle (unsure if that's sagged or static) and built around a 120mm fork. You can get a Deore build for about the same as a Chisel Frame:
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-falco-120mm-hardtail-trail-bike
Sonder Dial is more what jameso is looking for, I think - race ready, fast xc. The Falco is more trail.
Edit: I thought wrong. Should have read betterer! "fun on average XC trails, not too head-down. ", the man said. Ignore me!
The Sonder's similar to the others layout-wise, not bad but not really what I'm after. I'm thinking more of a reverse mullet bike, long and loose (trail geo) up front and clipped and efficient (XC/race) at the back. May have to get a sample made and say it fits into a range plan somewhere.
After recent experiences with both alu and steel hardtails, I'd go steel/chromo over aluminium every time. I think they ride so much better and the slight increase in weight and cost is worth it.
Specifically in response to the OP, I'd be tempted by a Stanton Sherpa.
^ Generally I'd agree. But I'm not convinced there's much more to the ride feel than the level of front end spring/twist, at least not in an MTB with a short seat tube, dropper and big tyres. A steel HT that copes with forks, bars and reach tastes now is never going to be particularly light if it needs to be reasonably stiff and as much I like some spring generally (on a road, gravel or MTB), also there's a time and place for something that's lighter and a bit stiffer. But if you get into 'XC Race' or roadie mentality where stiffer is better as an absolute you can get an overly harsh MTB frame.
That's where the Chisel appeals, by all accounts it's light and has moderate stiffness, not harsh.
Any reason you want to stick with Aluminium? I've got a Procaliber 9.6 carbon, it flies. (replaced a Nukeproof Scout which was slothlike in comparison)
It's not as head down as I expected, the isospeed bushing in the seat tube really seems to work, the back is nice and nippy but without trying to ping you off the saddle every time you go over a bump.
When I bought mine there was a fair few on eBay for tempting prices, the newer version with the isobow loses the need for a knockblock headset too.
Any reason you want to stick with Aluminium?
Lower price, works very well when used well but these days generally it's the only low end option or something more clunky and over-oversized.
I got a Team Marin 2 early last year. Alu frame, 120mm Fox 34s, decent enough spec other than the brakes and cheap wheels, which are about to be replaced. I raced it a couple of times and it worked very well, unlike me. It climbs better than any trail bike I've had since my Klein, twenty+ years ago, and handles everything else as well as you'd expect it to.
https://marinbikes.com/en-gb/products/2024-team-marin-2
No idea how it stacks up against the others you've mentioned, but bought a Niner Air 9 from Paul's cycles the other week for £800 in the sales. Last XC HT was a scandium Niner 10+ years ago so nothing recent to compare it to, but my god it flies. First ride was a night ride at Glentress which was also first time clipped in for many years so felt pretty tentative but it set PBs on Strava up every single climb. These climbs all showed 100+ efforts over the years.
Does seem to be a few years old and some sizes had sold out, but was a few hundred less than any Chisel I'd seen second hand so seemed worth a punt. Not felt overly comfortable jumping it yet and steep rooty sections of off-piste trails were too much for me on it, mostly due to clipped in being weird, but it has properly impressed me.
Any reason you want to stick with Aluminium?
Lower price, works very well when used well but these days generally it's the only low end option or something more clunky and over-oversized.
If price is a major consideration then how about Chinese carbon bought direct? The Meinier Snake frame has decent geometry and a good reputation for about £300.
ebay link
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405955915080?%3F
guy kesteven raved about his chisel.
guy kesteven raved about his chisel.
Guy Kes raves about most things 😉
I've been riding this kind of bike for 18 months or so (but Ti), and agree that XC as an all rounder is due a comeback. It needs to stay pretty much within the kind of boundaries you're looking at to retain speed, agility, and genuine versatility. I agree that HA needs to be <67 degrees to keep it sharp. Long, low, not very slack.
Need the Scandal to be the alloy version of the whippet really! Chisel has always looked spot on and the DSW genuinely good, but it's not amazing value. Air 9 looks decent, and it's a shame the Chameleon is now more trail orientated. For similar chisel frame set money you could go Ti, like the Gloria FKTi which has spot on geo. https://gloriacycling.com/products/titanium-all-terrain-frame
I'm just building up a Scandal frame with a 130mm fork.
The frame was impressively well made and light-ish (but not XC light).
65deg HA might be a bit more "trail" than you want OP, but I expect it to cover ground very well.
I specifically chose alu for the same reason as you anyway: comfy enough, light enough, durable, affordable - and just a bit more pep than steel
guy kesteven raved about his chisel.
Guy Kes raves about most things 😉
There's a more toned down (in terms of presenting style!) review of a custom Chisel here (Flow MTB):
65deg HA might be a bit more "trail" than you want OP,
It'd prob be fine. It's the short stem and fork travel plus the Al frame that will make it feel quick. I don't believe the steering geometry also needs to be overly light or quick. But at the same time floppy-slack steering can be annoying in an XC bike, just needs some balance. £199 for a frame is tempting.. is that the standard price or do Planet X prices still go up and down week to week?
The Chine direct carbon bikes would be a sensible option but I'm not a fan of the material unless it's done to a high standard, I just don't trust unknown carbon. Plus I like welded metal frames, seems like the proper way to do it somehow.
a Niner Air 9 from Paul's cycles the other week for £800 in the sales
Jeez.. I missed out there. No L left. That's was a great buy - I get a lot of kit at trade price and that still looks like a bargain. Niner are owned by the same company as Huffy now so maybe some overstock clearance still coming through.
Edit, thankfully for my FOMO it's a bit short in a L.
Guy Kes raves about most things 😉
I really like his enthusiasm for bikes. It was his review of the Chisel that made me take proper notice of it in the first place. Truth is there aren't many bad bikes around and to stay positive and not get too personal-subjective, to always keep the reader or viewer's likely perspective on a bike in mind, is a skill. And he's a good writer.
£199 for a frame is tempting.. is that the standard price or do Planet X prices still go up and down week to week?
I paid £150 some months ago, which is as low as I've seen them go. Would still have bought at £199 and considered it a good price. They are more usually £299 (and they were asking £600 at one point, which was daft).
The sand colour is really nice IRL too.
There's also the Giant xtc SLR 1, well reviewed even though it has a steep HA. Definitely in the mould you're after. Canyon grand canyon another possibility, though reach isn't ideal.
Giant xtc SLR 1
Dropped stays aside I quite like the look of that, in a 'Why not, in for a penny... ' way. But I already have a fast 29er with a 70 deg HTA and that's rigid with almost road bars : )