Forum menu
Just reading about the number of electric bikes at Interbike this year and it go me wondering.
This is purely hypothetical so bear with me.
Would it be fun if we could build a bike that didn't take away the physical effort and skill of actually riding, but did increase the speed with which you cover the ground by virtue of having some sort of motor assistance? So for example something that sat in your rear hub and added say a couple of horsepower to your efforts.
If you think about it, this is pretty much what suspension has done for us anyway.
As I can see it, you'd be able to cover more ground, which would be no bad thing, for the same effort/work done. You'd be able to ride up more and it still be challenging, physically and from a skills perspective.
I think it would be awesome.
I think you need a Stannah Stairlift and a lie down.
[img] 
[/img]
Is it not then called a motorbike stricktly speaking?
no.
Always fancied a rocket pack addition.
Rather than getting lazy I just would have tackled the 50 miles commute a bit more often
J.
Really don't see the point, why not just get a motorbike?
Could be useful in some situations. A bit of extra power for getting a heavier bike up a hill for some descents, as not many places have an uplift. Somewhere like Stile Cop, or Leckhampton as examples some might know, where you want to maximise your riding down. Some sort of dynamo for recharging on the descent?
Could be useful in some situations. A bit of extra power for getting a heavier bike up a hill for some descents,
As al said
just get a motorbike, if you must - just kill the engine for the descents for that authentic bicycle feel
Really don't see the point, why not just get a motorbike?
Because a motorbike is a motorbike and that's not what I'm suggsting.
You wouldn't be able to rid it on anything other than road or a green lane.
You wouldn't be remotely responsible for powering it yourself so there's no satisfaction from having propelled yourself or done any exercise.
You'd have to pass your CBT and wear a full face helmet.
It spews CO2.
Do you want me to go on?
I'm talking about a very low level of power that say increased your speed overall by around 15-20% and would still be a bike, just one that had a little extra in the tanks.
Let's say you're time constrained. You want to get out for a quick 2 hour ride but you want to take in all you best bits of trail and that means you really need 3 hours. This would get you round.
Not a couple of HP (that would be like having a tandem, with 2 caverndish's pushing your allong!).
But I'd have one of those seat-tube mounted ones, or even as a development of the nicolai style gearboxes?
Say with 2 settings, a 100w 'fireroad' setting for getting up boring hills quicker, and a boost button that charged via regenerative braking for powering out of corners.
We were discussing the E-bike whilst at Eurobike and they make a lot of sense in countries where the bicycle is commonly used as a form of everyday transport. In the UK where they are predominantly seen as a toy then they don't really work that well.
Personally I would rather push my bike than have a motor on it.
are we talking about some kind of hybrid between a motor bike and a home gym?
No
some sort of rocket thruster maybe?
[img] 
[/img]
A funny thing happened to me and a mate the other day.
Were were on a training run and we noticed a guy up front. We were not gaining on him despite our race bikes and him on a fairly hefty looking bike with normal clothes and wellies cycling with his heals. We go to a fast flat section and started to pass him. He said hello without being out of breath. We stopped further up the road as my mate had inhailed an energy gel and he came past. Hmm had a motorised hub - we were relieevd 🙂
Might have been seen by you all before, but something like this?:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/ghost-e-ndure-electric-eurobike-2010.html
OP I think you just need to get fit. I'd just do the 2 hour ride.
Seriously though, you don't think something like this will have significant weight, cost and maintenance issues? You'd need say 50W for 2 hours...needing a 12V 8Ah battery
I'm talking about a very low level of power that say increased your speed overall by around 15-20% and would still be a bike, just one that had a little extra in the tanks.
Learn to pedal faster/harder? Most, if not all the fun is in the pedaling. Yes, you'd go further but you wouldn't benefit personally.
No, I wouldn't be interested in one.
I guess the answer will only depend on what you want from your riding in the end.
It spews CO2.
Much like the power station you would need to charge the battery on your electric motor bike, I suppose.
No. I like pedalling, and I like my motorbike. I'd quite like an MX bike, too, if I'm going offroad with an engine I'd like to do it properly!
no
No fun when there is a big hill between you and home when the battery has died and you are on a long ride.
Also that much weight in the hub will make handling challenging too.
You would inevitablt freewheel for the first third of the ride then have to pedal the frikkin lump home 😡
You can imagine it happening though can't you. Not because keen cyclists want it but because people are lazy and don't like pedaling. I wonder how long it will be before mid range mtbs appear with a little helper out back.
How much are these systems? I chatted to a chap on an electric bike a few times on my commute (he thought it was amazing that I kept up with him up a hill) and the machine he was riding cost about £1500. He said it was rather a posh one so, if that's the case, how long until the motor part is a couple of hundred quid or so and can be attached to a £300 mtb.
Just ask Spartacus if an electric assist bike is a good idea, you might get an interesting answer. [/url][url= http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/06/news/cancellara-calls-motorized-bikes-claims-stupid-as-uci-looks-at-scanning-bikes_119452 ]Allegedly[/url]
I presume these bikes would come with a fluorescent jacket that read "I'm a Fat Biffer"?
I saw a chap on an electric Marin FS today (actually, I've seen him a couple of times now) - electric rear hub & battery packs on a seatpost-mounted rack.
Can't see the point, myself; as has been said above, for commuting, it's probably not a bad thing (although I'd have thought it would remove one of the major benefits of commuting by bike, namely getting fit) but for the trails it seems pretty pointless.
It's also heavy (so increased ground pressure & trail damage, especially when they're like sludge) and if you're hooning about with electric boost it may be seen by other BW users as a hazard, and might lead to pressure from horsey/walker groups to reduce MTB access.
Andy
I think some of you are being a little short sighted on this which is strange because MTB is normally a very forward looking technologically advanced sport.
In my opinion what geetee1972 is proposing is very much in keeping which the original ethos of the bike. Which is to improve and extend a persons capability to traverse the landscape.
Also I think people are getting confused with the mention of MX bikes they're not the same as a bike. Not only are there legal barriers to taking them cross country there are also practical barrier ie can one man lift a MX bike over a stile can it fit between the tree etc...
geetee1972 is proposing an electric assited bike you can take pretty much anywhere just like a mtb (if you dont mind riding on footpaths that is).
Also I think people are getting the wrong idea they are thinking of turning on a switch and not pedalling in the case of the current cheap e bikes but once your got a power source on the bike your'll be able to do some very clever things with modern electronics.
Power assist would just be that the bike could be set up to help you maintain a certain speed or help with the initial acceleration and then you take over to maintain the current speed. Or it could be even clever and kick in just when you need it ie making sure you have just enough power to make it out of that bomb hole. All this would either be invisible to the rider or controlled by their pedal strokes.
Some kind of sensor that monitors traction could also be developed and the motor may help to smooth out pedal stroke on loose ground making climbing easier.
Suddenly what was a slightly uphill boring singletrack through the forest would become an exciting technical challenge with a bit more speed.
I think wether this is possible and will come to be is very much dependant on the development and research into battery technology. Im sure powerful and very light motors can be developed as long as people are keen to throw money at them which currently seems to be the case with MTB suspension tech. Its just whether light weight energy dense rechargeable batteries can be developed and as mentioned earlier there is the possibility of recharging the batteries on the downhill.
There will still be a challenge and the best rider will be able to push new advances and will still be the best rider. In the same way not everyone is a downhill god now we can all buy 170mm DH bikes the courses have got harder and the best riders are still much quicker than the average joe.
I dunno, part of the appeal of biking (for me) is that it's good exercise without ever being boring. It might be useful for downhilling where there's no uplift as pushing a heavy bike back up can get annoying, but again it's good exercise.
I dunno, part of the appeal of biking (for me) is that it's good exercise
As geetee states your end up pushing your self just a hard your just go further/quicker.
In the same was as if I decide to go out for a run or a cycle now I'd probably push myself just a hard doing either but I'd cover alot more distance cycling.
No - for MTBing the extra weight of a battery and motor would be enough to spoil the fun.
For touring once I get a bit older - then yes.
No - for MTBing the extra weight of a battery and motor would be enough to spoil the fun.
from a man that lugs another half bike and the missus around behind him 🙄
😆
Ok bit by bit:
[i]"Just reading about the number of electric bikes at Interbike this year and it go me wondering." [/i]
Fair enough.
[i]"This is purely hypothetical so bear with me." [/i]
Slightly suspicious now...
[i]"Would it be fun..."[/i]
If you need to ask then the answer is probably no anyway, but still...
[i]"...if we could build a bike that didn't take away the physical effort and skill of actually riding, but did increase the speed with which you cover the ground by virtue of having some sort of motor assistance?"[/i]
Oh boy. No. No way. Why would you do that?
[i]"...So for example something that sat in your rear hub and added say a couple of horsepower to your efforts." [/i]
I'm pretty sure that certain conspiracy theorists say that pro roadies already have this...
[i]"If you think about it, this is pretty much what suspension has done for us anyway." [/i]
...Has it? I confess I'm no fan of full suspension bikes but that's taking it a bit far! How have you figured that one out?!
[i]"As I can see it, you'd be able to cover more ground, which would be no bad thing, for the same effort/work done. You'd be able to ride up more and it still be challenging, physically and from a skills perspective." [/i]
So you're saying...you want to make something to make it all physically easier, but you still want to be physically challenged? I think you're re-inventing the horse here. Derailleur gears have been around for a while now and I'd suggest that they cover that particular job description pretty well.
[i]"I think it would be awesome."[/i]
Fair enough. If you actually manage to design something like this I'd be interested to see it from a design perspective (not just for mountain biking but the applications for the motor trade etc for the purposes of fuel efficiency), but as for something I'd ever want on any of my bikes...no. No way.
Anyway, nice idea...just a bit...out there for my tastes I'm afraid!
Motor assisted is for the infirm and elderly. 🙄
yeh i need one im too ****ed when i get to the top of a hill to enjoy riding down it 😥
GW - its like having an extra motor - mind you she does only do about ten miles per pint.
Does anyone else think 'sports mixture' are really nice? I think I'm going to finish a whole packet.
scu98rkr
Finally someone with some freakin imagination!
I can't believe how luddite and conservative the rest of you are being. It's like each and every new development to allow you to ride faster, further or harder must be resisted at all and absolute costs as if progress is an assault on your sensibilities. I'm talking about an idea executed at some point way beyond the next five years, not what's currently available.
It's called being visionary. Much like saying a 27lb, 160mm, DH capable carbon nomad is a game changing machine.
Oh and as for the 'get fit' remarks, well when I was single, had no kids, very little mortgage (i.e. I had time), I was a national champion in karate and could ride up Jacobs Ladder with one dab so you can stuff that in your camel back and suck on it like a lemon!
I can't believe how luddite and conservative the rest of you are being. It's like each and every new development to allow you to ride faster, further or harder must be resisted at all and absolute costs as if progress is an assault on your sensibilities
I think the general objection is that folk don't want powered assistance as it removes what separates bikes from powered vehicles. Pretty simple and not really anything to do with your statement above. Folk are quite happy with other developments that assist enjoyment of riding (not all of them are about speed though).
It's called being visionary. Much like saying a 27lb, 160mm, DH capable carbon nomad is a game changing machine.
I'd call that nonsense rather than visionary!
Sorry not sure what part you think is nonsense Cynical?
I would feel like I was cheating if I had a motor on my bike. Part of the fun of a good downhill for me is feeling that I've earned it by riding up to the top entirely under my own steam. I like totting up the miles I've covered on a ride precisely because they're self-powered. A motor would detract from the achievement. So no, I'd not be interested in a motorised MTB.
Having said that, I've only just cracked and bought my first bike with suspension this year (a hardtail), so I'm clearly a bit of a puritan Luddite where bikes are concerned, and therefore not a good indicator.
(Certainly wouldn't fancy lugging a motorised bike over the last few hills with a flat battery, either.)
Whether we like it or not I think it's inevitable.
A lot of the manufacturers are looking at this.
I wont knock it until I've tried it.
If you can get the additional weight to a point where it's not a burden for carrying or when the battery runs out, then I think we'll see them all over the trails.
Legality is another issue - I think we'll see some heated debates and access problems come out of this. For every bike that offers pedal assist there'll be ones which don't require pedalling - meaning more erosion as wheels spin up climbs.
I do get the whole challenge thing and feeling of personal achievement. But here's my point:
At what stage does a mechanical improvement inhibit that feeling of personal achievement?
I guess the answer is different for everyone and on STW I suspect the majority of people are less progressive than say those on the Dirt forum. And I think that's fine; not that anyone needs my approval of course!
What I think is a bit odd is that people would readily accept one mechnical aid but not another. So let me put it like this.
If I could, by virtue of magic, give you an extra 20% on your average speed across terrain, without taking away any sense of your own personal achievement, without inhibiting your sense of connectedness to the bike and trail, without it being illegal or detrimental the environment and without it adding weight to your bike, would that be a good thing?
Sorry not sure what part you think is nonsense Cynical?
That a 27lb carbon Nomad is as DH capable as a proper 35-40lb DH bike.
At what stage does a mechanical improvement inhibit that feeling of personal achievement?I guess the answer is different for everyone and on STW I suspect the majority of people are less progressive than say those on the Dirt forum
"less progressive" for disagreeing with you? 🙄
If I could, by virtue of magic, give you an extra 20% on your average speed across terrain, without taking away any sense of your own personal achievement, without inhibiting your sense of connectedness to the bike and trail, without it being illegal or detrimental the environment and without it adding weight to your bike, would that be a good thing?
You can't though - that's the point.