Forum menu
But if it's that obvious, you'll be able to list it right now. So what are they? And not stuff that will be improved in the future, but stuff that's genuinely rubbish right now.
Who said anything about it being obvious?...some of those products in the list were the best available at that time, people riding around with them thought they were the bees knees....its only as time passes and you look back that you realise how crap some stuff was.
I wouldn't say those were 'worst ever products' then - that's just that new things have improved.
its only as time passes and you look back that you realise how crap some stuff was.
Thing is, they say elastomers were crap (and yes, by modern standards they were) but back then, in pursuit of light weight, simplicity and the available technology, they were pretty good.
Yes motorcycle forks used coil/oil springs so the tech was there but they didn't need to be light - back then light weight meant everything to the extent that MBUK ran an article about how to file down/drill out your components!
RR sort of make sense - making it easy to drop to an easier gear, with the "more difficult" shift hapenign when pedalling.
Make explaining how to operate front and rear mechs to a newbie a lot easier.
[i]"Big button makes it harder, small button makes it easier."[/i]
Northwind - MemberI wouldn't mind a set inboard of the controls though on my xc bike, just to get an extra hand position- like tiny tri bars.
I'd like a leather wingback saddle with arm rests and a small footstool on the crossbar
Thing is, they say elastomers were crap (and yes, by modern standards they were) but back then, in pursuit of light weight, simplicity and the available technology, they were pretty good.
'Industry' changing 'standards' in the time in the name of 'progress' shocker. 😉
Barends still working for me, 740mm bars. Extra hand positions, get weight forward for climbs, get position a little flatter for headwinds. They work for xc. "Mountain biking" is a very broad term, I guess some ppl don't understand that yet.
Fingerless gloves also good for summer. Not worried about the odd nettle.
I wouldn't say those were 'worst ever products' then - that's just that new things have improved.
Get out of bed the wrong side Mr-Pedant?....that list does its job of being slightly amusing, showing how far we've come and highlighting some of the nonsense shoved down our throats by marketing depts over the years....if it makes a few people blush at some of the crap they bought into over the years then thats fine too.
As good as some stuff is at the moment it should undoubtedly be better in 20 years time.
I could chuck a few current things at the list but it would just lead to pointless and repetitive arguing on here, stuff that is crap right now but has somehow still found a niche and will be vociferously defended by certain quarters on the grounds of being 'fun'....which is fair enough but 'fun' doesnt actually advance the bikes we ride and i had 'fun' yesterday taking my BMX on the local singletrack with my dogs but i wouldnt dream of trying to tell somebody that it was the best tool for the job.
I had some of those X-Ray Gripshifts. They were great. Only just sold the bike they were on a couple of months ago, after 16 years' flawless service. They were completely bombproof and worked fine. I've used gripshift on and off ever since, currently have it on my best bike - it's ace. And I've had way more problems with triggers malfunctioning over the years.
Bar ends I don't use anymore, but I can still see the attraction if you're mashing out really long rides over moderate terrain, it is nice to have different hand positions available. They were good when I had one bike for absolutely everything. Not much use for proper off-road riding though, where you need to be on the controls pretty much constantly.
I also had some of those Onza pedals, never had a problem using them myself, and they were cheap and bombproof, which was good for a skint teenager.
Mr-pedant here 🙂
We can just agree to disagree if you prefer. I see that the list contains some products that were generally crap and some that the writer just doesn't like. Hence why I suggested listing products that were really the worst on here...
As you were...
I liked bar ends too....with my old bike they just seemed right.
[i]as with everything though time marches on and can be cruel, what is percieved as decent kit now will i'm sure be seen as borderline dangerous in 20 years time as we make genuine progress with improving the handling, braking and drivetrain efficiency of the bikes we ride[/i]
Really....do you see another 20 years of relentless improvements in speed and ride ability without just adding top end fittings to every bike?
...annoying as the asymmetrical nature of a USB plug...
"When the inventor of the USB plug dies, his coffin will be gently lowered into the ground.
Then removed, turned round and lowered back in again."
back then light weight meant everything to the extent that MBUK ran an article about how to file down/drill out your components!
I remember club rides in the early 90's where riders would compare what they'd hacked off/drilled out since the previous week - chainrings, brake levers, cranks, ultra narrow hyperlite bars etc. Being a skint teenager back then my only nod to the lightweight obsession on my Orange Clockwork was a flite saddle, USE seatpost and some Orange bullhorn bars (no bar end clamps to add weight you see).
Im surprised that crank with the 90 degree bend in it wasn't on there.
I'll be interested to see if all the proliferation of designs available now will be looked back on one day as a golden age of choice.
A bit like the surfboard industry - anything and everything through the 60's and 70's, then performance was everything for a couple of decades and 6'something" 3-fin thrusters were the be-all-and-end-all.
Then people started to rediscover the fun in different designs, and all the experimental 50s - 70s stuff got brought out again, tweaked and played with. Not to mention the old hawaiian designs too.
Really....do you see another 20 years of relentless improvements in speed and ride ability without just adding top end fittings to every bike?
I hope so, i'd like to think the guys at Shimano and Rockshox dont just look at what they've got and think 'good enough'....obviously in the short term features that were the preserve of XTR level components slide down to SLX level and so on but at some point the engineers must have ideas for the top line stuff that would genuinely move things forward.
Why has no one mentioned the derailleur?
Brilliant on a road bike, but the most useless piece of crap if you want to take your bike offroad (as in not on groomed maintained trails).
They're so shit they even have their mountings designed to fail to save the rest of the mechanism. Try riding a narrow deer track with heather on each side, it's just a matter of time.
And now the cogs are getting so skinny that chainrings are folding over from JRA.
And everything mentioned in that list was raved over by the bike journos of the time. They wouldn't do that now, would they? 🙂
I'll be interested to see if all the proliferation of designs available now will be looked back on one day as a golden age of choice.A bit like the surfboard industry - anything and everything through the 60's and 70's, then performance was everything for a couple of decades and 6'something" 3-fin thrusters were the be-all-and-end-all.
Then people started to rediscover the fun in different designs, and all the experimental 50s - 70s stuff got brought out again, tweaked and played with. Not to mention the old hawaiian designs too.
That's a very good point.
damn I guess I wont be putting on those bars ands and xtr dual control levers and calipers in the classifieds.
!
I quite like them and have tried 2 incarnations of them. WHat happened to the bent bits of piping known as a rear mech protector
[img] 
[/img]
epicyclo - Member
Why has no one mentioned the derailleur?
Presumably because it's the best solution we have right now and actually despite it's apparent failings, works really well for the vast majority of us. From memory, I think I've broken two in 20 years mtbing.
I've never read Dirt magazine and based on that load of bollox, I never will.
You'll never read another new issue - that's pretty much for sure.
It does make me chuckle to think their website is strong enough to keep the dirt flame alive. It's always been a truly dreadful page.
bent bits of stainless steel piping nonetheless! Not only real, but also shiny.
Reynolds 953 ProMechTor?
[img] grimacing cyclist [/img ]
"He can take pain, but he can't take it when a broken mech drops him off the podium on stage 8 of the Megnarduro. That's why Dwain Blitzzdor* rocks a ProMechTor!"
*11 times podiumator at the Megnarduro.
Bar ends are excellent.
While we are at it, from an engineering viewpoint flat bars make more sense than risers if the bike has a stem.
Why has no one mentioned the derailleur?
Because chain drive is actually pretty efficient, i remember reading an article on kit cars and whether to spec chain drive r driveshafts...i think the power losses are something like 5% for chain drive but nearer 20% for other systems!
I agree that derailleurs are getting silly with 11 speed cogs out back that are being squeezed onto hubs that were designed for 9-speed....i'd be happy to ditch the cabling system and use electronic shifting based on bluetooth tech (funnily enough like Di2!) but the mechs have to stay until someone can come up with an internal gearbox that still utilises a chain for the drive but doesnt sap 20% f your power in order to work.
Gearbox would have to be centred around the BB for optimum weight distribuation, you could ditch the front mech, still use a chain from gearbox to rear wheel, no need for rear cassettes anymore, no need for rear mechs...there must be a way of getting the CVT (continually variable transmission) from scooters onto a MTB without it feeling like you;re riding through treacle?
I had a thread about that. Thought they were a good idea.cheekymonkey888 - Member
WHat happened to the bent bits of piping known as a rear mech protector
Notice how Biopace wasn't mentioned and that's because it's BRILLIANT
deviant - Memberi think the power losses are something like 5% for chain drive but nearer 20% for other systems!
Yeah, there's a vague rule of thumb of 15% for cars - but there's all sorts of seals and differentials at play there, so it's not a straightforward comparison.
Press fit bottom brackets are a modern one I'll be glad to see gone.
Rapid Rise was ace and I'd use it now if it came in 10sp.
Bar Ends are great in the right circumstances. I was recently using some with 710mm flat bars. Went to risers so the 'no bar end' law applied.
Elastomer suss forks were market leaders bitd, they only started to be outclassed when travel increased. A freshly serviced set of Pace RC35's will still do a decent job of reducing fatigue and increasing speed on a retro bike.
Where as URT bikes look useless now they came from a sound idea. They gave people who were used to rigid bikes a suss bike that felt rigid some of the time. Sounds daft now but had merit at the time.
I have no time for flappy gear levers, Grip Shift or some of the Flexstem type set ups.
DIRT - Should have stuck with Paper.
So you don't all have to go through the pain:
1. Shimano Flippy Floppy Shifters
2. Gripshift X-Ray Shifters
3. Elastomer Suspension
4. Bullet Bros ZZYZX Forks
5. Suspension Stems
6. rEvolution by GildasFire
7. Bar Ends
8. Massive Seats
9. Giro Switchblade Helmet
10. Long Stems
11. Fingerless Gloves
12. Toe Clips
13. Onza HO Pedals
14. Hubs With Loose Spacers
15. URT Suspension Frames
I'd forgotten some of those.
What's wrong with toe clips? SPD's did for them but before that they were the only real option for MTB's. Road based Look efforts didn't count.
With long stems what are we talking? I still think 70mm to 110mm have a place but many won't agree. 150mm+ was going a bit far but even then there was a reason for them. I'm sure at some point the mega short ones currently in vogue will be laughed at, as will 800mm+ bars for normal riding.
Fingerless gloves are great in summer. Why wouldn't they be?
Most of those products were good in the respect that they were an important part of the evolution process to better products. You have to start somewhere. I also remember as a teenager really wanting a lot of those products.
I remember reading a review about bar ends that controlled the brakes. You lent forward on the bar ends to apply the brakes. Never going to end well.
I think that in Order to hit the list you should be at least the worst of your breed, even if you disagree on the types of things that go in there... E.g.
Bars ends? F*** no. Bring me some bull bars, your bar ends are for wimps. Bull bars are not only impractical but need to be made much heavier too to withstand the flex.
Elastomer forks? Naaa. There were lots of great elastomer forks. How about amp forks, might be coil sprung but squeeze the brake and touch your wheel on the downtube? Actually, sod that, girvin forks. Now they all sucked, elastomer or not. Wait, no there's been worse than even those... Actually the zzyzx might have it there.
Toe clips? Ok they were a bit of a knack, but better than no clips on that type of pedal, which had the grip of an ice rink in the wet, or maybe you switched over to some bear traps? Shin kebab anyone? I nominate those pedals [i]without[/i] Clips.
nemesis - Member "
Why has no one mentioned the derailleur?"
Presumably because it's the best solution we have right now and actually despite it's apparent failings, works really well for the vast majority of us. From memory, I think I've broken two in 20 years mtbing.
But they are a limiting factor in what is supposed to be an offroad bike. If I had one on my bike I'd never take it through the stuff I do.
If I stuck to trails, it would be no bother apart from getting clogged up with mud or slush. I'm surprised that those protectors don't get used more, or are they useless?
I don't get the derailleur hate. I've been mountain biking for 20years and have only ever broken two. That is not a bad ratio.
Kirk frames.
Stan's rims.
High Rollers.
Peaks on lids.
Stirrups on longs/bibs.
Toe clips are fine on their own, but do you remember cleats?
Wonder if anyone ever tried that on an MTB?
franksinatra - Member
I don't get the derailleur hate. I've been mountain biking for 20years and have only ever broken two. That is not a bad ratio.
Where do you ride? The point I'm trying to make is they're fine if you stick to established trails, but they are useless once they get tangled up with the undergrowth if you go off piste.
They are a limitation on the use of a mountainbike.
eg, this sort of riding
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1389/5107867263_72497a399c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1389/5107867263_72497a399c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
I've had my rear disk jammed up with heather, so what would happen to a derailleur is anyone's guess.
over the past twenty years (which predate trail centres I have ridden Chilterns, North Wales, Lake District, Highland, Yorkshire, Borders, Alps..........
Maybe I have just been lucky, or I am not gnar enough
franksinatra - Member
...Maybe I have just been lucky, or I am not gnar enough
Sorry, I stuck the explanatory pic in as an edit while you were posting.
But gnar has nothing to do with it. I just don't want to get stuck on the face of a mountain with a borked gear mechanism.
If I had a derailleur I wouldn't be riding in those places, I'd stick to trails.
The dirt subscription I had for Christmas isn't on there??
My only just purchased, Tesco Clubcard funded, subscription doesn't seem to be on there either.
[quote=epicyclo ]If I had a derailleur I wouldn't be riding in those places, I'd stick to trails.
Most people don't ride those places, and don't want to ride those places. So maybe the derailleur makes it onto your personal list of worst mountain bike products ever for you, but certainly not the more general one we're discussing.
Then again I've done more than my fair share of hike a bike (I'd guess more than 99% of riders), and I've only ever broken one rear mech on a bike.
I just don't want to get stuck on the face of a mountain with a borked gear mechanism.
If I had a derailleur I wouldn't be riding in those places, I'd stick to trails.
But if you bork your mech you just shorten your chain and singlespeed it off the hill.
What are grip shifters doing in that list , that's just stupid .
How about the crud comb , hite right pre dropper post thingie , slingshot bikes and Tioga disc wheels .
epicyclo - Member
I've had my rear disk jammed up with heather, so what would happen to a derailleur is anyone's guess.
I've had a few occasions where heather has gotten stuck in my derailleur with no damage to show for it. It's not much different to small sticks getting caught up back there. You quickly realise what's happened and it takes a few seconds to pull it out. They're sturdy things.
What a pile of piddly poo. I still have bar ends on a couple of bikes (stubby ones admittedly, not like the Ned Overends I had back in the day) and they're brilliant for climbing and variety of hand positions. Also help you get weight forward on steep climbs. Would have them on all bikes except DH if it wasn't for the fact most carbon bars don't get on with them. On bikes without them I quite often find myself riding with my hands sat on the end of the bars as if they were there on long climbs.
Had Onza HOs and while a bit inconsistent they did the job for a few years.
I like fingerless gloves in the summer - just rediscovered them actually.
My RS Judy DHs did a good job for several years.
Quill stems were a pain in the arse, as were old style headsets and bottom brackets. The comedy of trying to stop on cantis (even with Ritchey red pads!) still makes me appreciate my discs.
Oblongbob - Member
...I like fingerless gloves in the summer - just rediscovered them actually....Quill stems were a pain in the arse,..
I like fingerless gloves in summer. Can hook my jelly babies out of my pocket without stopping. 🙂
I miss quill stems though. It's nice to be able to change your bar height on a long day. Just need a return to the old prewar Brampton style to make them less hassle.