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My Wolftooth 30t has been working without fault for the handfull of rides i've done on it so far.
Can't wait until there's a few other people making them and the price comes down a bit.
Great - thanks for the update guys - looking forward to my 32t arriving this week
On the whole wear thing - XX1 has been in use for a while now - well over a year, as there were quite a few pros running it at the Olympics, but I guess their stuff gets replaced quite regularly
On the cost of the wolftooths - I bought a second hand shifter, cheap kcnc chain and 10spd xt cassette from bike discount, so all in I have spent <£200 vs >£1000 for xx1
That's a lovely norco but 30t with a 40t cassette, that's alpine gearing surely?!
I am looking forward to my works ring with all of these pictures now....
If the consensus is that a clutch mech is needed what are the benefits of these new profile rings? Apologies if it is a daft question!
Option 1: 254g
A clutch mech (XTR 986- 214g) and wolftooth ring (32T- 40g)
Option 2: 265g/ 245g
Normal mech (XTR 980- 174g), chain guide (e13 XCX BB- 56g/ shift up carbon- 36g) and ring (e13 32T- 35g)
There isn't significant weight in it (XX1 rear mech is fractionally heavier than the XTR example above- of course cassettes will vary too but that is a different matter, plus sub 40g chain guides such as Shift Up are an option to reduce option 2 weight), the running costs are less with option 2 (or at least the same with these newer cheaper rings) and there is the extra security of the chain guide of option 2 is surely an advantage????
If the clutch mechs were lighter then great! But they are not and I can not see the advantages of option 1.
Why risk less performance (no chain guide) for no other apparent gains or am I missing something? Purely aesthetic? Are we taken in by yet more marketing 🙂 It is a genuine question as I don't really get these rings at the moment.
Ta!
No guide means less faff. That's it.
No guide means less faff. That's it.
My guide isn't any faff but dropping the chain even occasionally is a real pain. Why invite the chances with no guide? I really am skeptical sorry!
Dan on a lot of setups, especially those not using a clutch mech a top only guide isnt enough to ensure the chain will stay on - add a clutch mech and one of these rings and it should be solid.
For long travel trail and am bikes (my kind of thing) thats very welcome,I don't like lower chain guide rollers as I hate the drag and unreliability.
For the same cost as a standard ring what's not to like? I wouldnt pay £70 or whatever the wolf one costs no but RF E13 and the works components one I have on order make It a cheap experiment....
My guide isn't any faff but dropping the chain even occasionally is a real pain. Why invite the chances with no guide? I really am skeptical sorry!
My frame offers limited options for chainguides, especially for the size chainring I want, so for me it would be awesome to ditch the guide altogether. I don't see any reason whatsoever to run anything but a short cage clutch mech on a single ring setup anyway.
If it doesn't work quite satisfactory, fine, I'll run a top guide and still be happy with the setup being silent and drag free.
Dan on a lot of setups, especially those not using a clutch mech a top only guide isnt enough to ensure the chain will stay on - add a clutch mech and one of these rings and it should be solid.
This approach I can understand- using the rings to add even more chain security. Makes sense
mrtee - do you have any close up pics of the front ring and general lee rear cassette at all please?
I see the RaceFace ones are available now in 30-38t. £50 if that's your thing.
these will be available as well very soon.
http://absoluteblack.cc/xx1-style-shimano.html
Tehan nice product are you the seller?
No 30T though it seems. Wolf Tooth now offer free postage
First works ones are mailing out, should have mine tomorrow apparently. I am ridiculously excited about this, it's quite sad.
Waited >4 weeks for my wolftooth - got a refund now and ordered a works. Had all my 10 speed kit ready to in for weeks 🙁
Moda- yes, i am a designer of absoluteBLACK.
30T is sooo uncommon guys. In scope of this thread it looks like it is popular, but in big picture it's less than 2%. 90% people buy 32T.
I am kind of against 30T for 104BCD. This puts bigger stresses on the crank and chainring. Is very prone to mud as the clearance is soo small and put the chainring 3mm inwards. Not to mention higher price because a need to use thicker plate to mill from (and time).
If you really need to use 30T why not to change the crank?? Sram is a lot better option in that regard. Using spiderless rings gives you freedom of choice + you don't have to bother about bolts, clearance etc. I am not trying to convince anyone - just giving another point of view. What you guys do now is trying to fit a square peg into the hole. Why?
Bought some SRAM cranks so I can get a spiderless 30 tooth one from works (when they machine them). Just seems like a neater solution than all the messing about trying to get a 30 tooth on 104bcd cranks
Is very prone to mud as the clearance is soo small and put the chainring 3mm inwards.
The wolftooth hasn't shown any signs of clearance problems on my setup and it's about 1mm more inboard than a standard ring which has had no ill effect whatsoever...
Though if you could make a 30T for a lot cheaper that'd be great. 😉
Just seems like a neater solution than all the messing about trying to get a 30 tooth on 104bcd
Bolt Wolftooth on and ride. No messing anywhere. 🙂
At the moment i have no plans to do 30T. It's waste of material from reasons i posted before:)
It can't be 1mm as it sticks out 2mm (thread extensions) + center of tooth offset. I am not saying it will fail for sure - but that it's more prone to failure.
I spot one more thing on this thread. It sounds like people are confused with compatibility of 9spd and such chainrings.
My chainrings can be used wit 1x9/10/11 but in case of 9 you MUST use 10spd chain. Such setup works great and it has been tested extensively with non clutch type rear mech. It just works because our directional tooth shape. So you will not drop a chain.
anyone seen these??
its a 30t with bash and guide built in...looks like a good idea
[img] 
?11[/img]
[url= http://www.widgit.com.au/products/widgit-for-3-ring-crankset ]Website...its australian[/url]
works out about £90 i think
Was there not some sort of STW customer service lynchmob thing about the Widgits? Seems a nice idea.
It can't be 1mm
Say's the man who can't make one. 😉
Northwind.
Think you're confusing that with Homebrew.
on mtbr a lot of people says that it rubs and these "bashrings" are quite prone for bending and breaking. Not my personal opinion but that's what i read.
Not messing about to fit, but to make. The sram spiderless ones just really appeal but I'm sure the wolf tooth ones are great but cost more than a SRAM one from works
not can't, but not willing to by purpose. Designing such ring is not even an 1h job if you have all other bits already.
I owned Extralite ring which was the first one out there back in a day in 30T and it is 2mm to let it work properly. same with WT. 1mm is too small for it.
not can't, but not willing to by purpose.
put the chainring 3mm inwards.
it is 2mm to let it work
You sound confused.
How many more post before you come down to 1mm. 😆
That's fine though.
I'll carry on giving my money to someone else while you find the last mill. 😉
Pridds - mine Sram spiderless works out for 48 plus 2 postage.
singlespeedstu - i can't make everything:). I have some rules and am not making things i am not sure of. Sram option is a lot better and lighter AND cheaper in that regards. That is my personal opinion and i fully respect yours.
singlespeedstu - i can't make everything:). I have some rules and am not making things i am not sure of.
I'm just messing.
Trying to get you to make one for a good price that's all. 8)
singlespeedstu - you cut from my post in quote "tooth offset" that makes it for 3mm. I thought it was obvious.
*Trotts off to Work Components to get a 30T for Mrs ssstu's geared bike.*
Even if it is 3mm more inboard it'll make very little difference.
Ordered. Will they be in stock on the 2nd?
Northwind.
Think you're confusing that with Homebrew.
No, there was a Widgit lynching, IIRC someone ordered one, it didn't fit, Aussie bloke told him to lump it.
That was a storm in a teacup.
Thread was started by a mate of mine (Bonesetter).
The Homebrew thread on MTBR was where the real pitchforks were at.
thank you Pridds. Yes they will. First batch shipping tomorrow (lots of backorders to cover) if something left before next batch (2nd june) you will get it first!
edit- i will actually have one for you this week. Just checked..
It not on the site but I have assumed that the spiderless ones are thick/thin as well as directional like the xx1 shimano rings. If they are not then I'll cancel the order and wait for the works one cheers
they are not thick-thin. They don't have to be as i have came up with excellent tooth shape which was tested by XC World Champion Marek Konwa. This just works. I am making on the other hand Shimano thick-thin just because people pressure. They don't understand main principles why it actually works and why you don't need really thick-thin profiles. Tooth shape is the main key to it! Thhoth shape is identical on my Shimano and Sram rings - just photos are from last generation ones (new coming soon)
We can make a deal - if it does not work for you then you can return used chainring within a month and get your money back.
Fair enough, but won't have it built up til start of June so a month from then ok?
sure.
I will only not accept one totally worn after 2000mil saying "i just done 50:)"
when you do some miles write me please on the email what you think as i don't visit this forum everyday.
Will do
I just got one of the X-Type Snowflake ones delivered.
[url= http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5458/8757266086_dc58674125.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/65116677@N02/8757266086/ ]IMG_2077[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/65116677@N02/ ]marcusandcath[/url], on Flickr
However, after closer inspection, it seems that it has a completely different offset to the middleburn x-type ring, which makes me think that they've got their sums wrong. Pic below of old next to new.
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/8757266342_cc06c7ae89.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/65116677@N02/8757266342/ ]IMG_2171[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/65116677@N02/ ]marcusandcath[/url], on Flickr
Which is further exacerbated by the ring being 2mm thicker at the spider, meaning that the space between the ring & the LH crank is narrower then the BB shell & bearings.
Well I've just ordered a Wolf Tooth, easiest option for me
[b]tehan[/b]: who would be best to contact regarding reviews? I'm currently writing up Hope's IBR but quite keen to cover a SRAM Spiderless option… email in profile.
email sent. thanks
Nothing received yet…
hmm, i have just resend it.
Got it now, ta!
Ordered my 30T from Wolf Tooth two days ago, it was shipped last night! 8)
Interesting thread. I've been looking for one of these too and there seem to be a few options now. Someone said RaceFace have some? Details? I tried contacting works components as they are UK based but they have not replied to me. NSB, Raceface, Wolftooth, Absolute black, MRP? all do them? Are they all pretty much doing the same job and have similar tooth profile and design, or are they likely to be different and perform different to each other do people think?
I like the idea of an integrated bash guard on the wolftooth, but dislike that they made it a bespoke BCD to only fit their stuff. It would be good to see 104 BCD mount holes on a SRAM direct mount chain ring purely to mount a bash guide to, but I'm not sure I really need a bash.
Race Face Narrow Wide chainrings now up on Wiggle, end June apparently.
I received my Works Components 34t a few days ago - looks good, waiting to get my broken cranks off (bloody silly Truvativ (non-)self-extracting design) so I can try it out...
I like the idea of an integrated bash guard on the wolftooth
The Wolftooth doesn't have an integrated bash.
Done quite a few rides on mine now including the Dyfi enduro and it's been faultless.
Received my Works one too - again looks rather good and has worked fine so far 🙂
I can see the other immediate player being Raceface @£40.00 and £45.00, wiggle are already discounting 10% as expected 🙂
The wolf tooth is too much money and cba to order a chainring from the USA - too much hassle. E13 will no doubt be on price-point too, Works still cheapest at £35.00 and for a consubable item that wins me over.
My works one has just turned up.
I'll fit it tonight, and let you know how it is after it stops raining. 😀
Got my Works one on and took it out for a spin sans chain device on tuesday- no fuss at all. [i]Possibly[/i] a wee bit more drivetrain noise than usual? But zero drops. It wasn't the harshest test but it's a good start, will try and give it a proper rattle next week.
I've ridden this same bike with the clutch mech, E13 singlespeed ring, and no device before and it didn't really work at all so it's definitely an improvement. Yet to find out if it's enough.
I tried emailing Works components twice and no response. If I click through to the webpage to order a 32, it says out of stock but it looks like I can still add to basket and checkout. Advice?
The Wolftooth doesn't have an integrated bash.
They're probably referring to [url= http://www.wolftoothcycling.com/products/bash-ring-for-sram-direct-mount ]this.[/url]
Yes I was refering to that but:
a) It's a bespoke WolfTooth fitment and locks you into an indy outfit based in the USA.
b) It's $47 for something that may break
I would pay £35 for the works one in the UK right now, or as said above, RaceFace have now appeared on Wiggle available end of June @ £40. the RaceFace ones look like they have a nice engraved logo on them.
Problem with RaceFace is that it may not work properly. Please don't jump on me as i do absoluteBlack rings and am their competition, but to be perfectly honest thick-thin profile does NOT solve the problem. It's a tooth profile that plays major role in that. They are wider, more square and a tiny bit taller. Tolerances are also smaller that means chain will almost not move back-forth on the chainring when fiddling with fingers.
If you look now at RF and E13 offerings they only added thick tooths to the already existing design. That means it will not work like it should in my opinion as i already done that long time ago and know the outcome. Thus completely different tooth profile on my side.
time will tell. Please note that on their site is no word that chainkeeper is not necessary, only this: "Now with performance enhancing chain retention technology" which means it retain bit better which is true some way, but will it allow you to drop the chainkeeper off of your bike?:)
this is my personal opinion and i am not trying to convince anyone. Just show you a point of view of someone who done some work in that topic.
forgot about other side of the story.
Thick tooths do wear out quite quickly - especially during weather like we have today in UK:) When chainring is new there has to be already small play between plates and thick tooth. But after a month in the mud this play is around 0.1mm bigger. That means thick tooth does not hold chain at all at this point as there is a fair distance from both sides to the chain plates. So the only thing which help to keep things still on place is that square-ish tooth profile.
But that will not last forever as well. Sram admits that also.
So unless you want to replace your chainring every few months you'll still need a chainguide. Oh well.
So unless you want to replace your chainring every few months you'll still need a chainguide. Oh well.
What does this mean? It reads to me that you are saying that there is some kind of correlation between wear rate and requriing a chain guide. Please explain.
I think that Tehan, you as a manufacturer of your own chainring are entitled to your opinion and to talk up your product. To me though, I would think that they are all very similar in performance if they have basically used SRAM XX1 as a guide to how to achieve better chain retention. Otherwise why bring one out at all. We have enough chain rings on the market that are considered "normal" chain rings. It will become obvious as more get out into the wild as to which ones are sub standard if at all.
What does this mean? It reads to me that you are saying that there is some kind of correlation between wear rate and requriing a chain guide. Please explain.
tehan explained it in last post of the previous page. Long time reports from XX1 owners seem to indicate the same thing.
Tehan in own product big up shocker.
Tbh rings don't last forever anyway do they, run them with a top only guide and be happy 🙂
I am sure xx1 users have been on them longer than a month with no issues?
Oh and of course, the key is that the works and Rf rings are as cheap as standard rings, so what is the point in not buying them over a normal ring? Makes no sense!
I can honestly see every ring manufacturer moving to it... Any benefit is a selling point after all?
I still want x9 11spd to happen, then I will be happy!
Tbh rings don't last forever anyway do they, run them with a top only guide and be happy
That's exactly what I'm doing. I didn't mean to sound negative - I was myself dead set on ditching chainguides altogether but I decided to go for a top only guide just to avoid any potential problems once the ring wears down. I now run a Wolftooth spiderless with a Superstar top guide and it works well, even without a clutch mech. Maybe I would have just as much luck with a regular SS chainring (bling ring in my case), but there's not much in it price wise so why not.
I'd probably give it a go without a guide if I was still on a hardtail, considering that I ran my Soul with a regular SS chainring and only very rarely dropped the chain (clutch mech essential in that case).
Ok so once again.
IF chainring does not have a special tooth shape(profile) it will not work good without chainguide (even if it has thick-thin profile). So RF or E13 will require something to hold the chain on top. As i said time will tell when people start using that. I went that way on the beginning of my development and i know what's the score. Big companies add thick tooths as everyone expect that to happen. But unfortunately it looks like afterthought as tooth profile is not changing - that is really critical to that system.
XX1 rings- as someone already said long term tests already show that chainrings don't hold chain as when new after XXX miles. This is normal. There is no miracles as if chainring wears out the tolerances are bigger.
What distinguish XX1 or my rings from others is the tooth profile- this does not wear out as quick as thick tooths. So it means it will hold chain much longer than other chainrings. Simple as that.
this is a video of my ring to let you know how good they are:
Rider - Marek Konwa. Silver MTB World Champion, National MTB Champion, CX National Champion and so on. It's his personal video, so not moded by me etc.
First ride today on my works componants ring, around the roughest trails tunnel hill has to offer. 😀
I deliberately ran it down the rougher stuff in a higher gear, with the pro_pedal on, throwing the bike about a bit, and the chain didn't budge.
Took half a lb of weight off losing the chain device, less noise, and a little less drag. At 35 quid, I can't fault it.
I'd still like the stupid low gears mrtee has though.... 😀
This is to show you how good retention this chainring has. It's all about the tooth shape which can keep the chain in place. Only 5 links is enough to hold more than 2 pounds (in fact you can hang much more. Regular chainrings require at least double that.
Try to do it with yours and see result.
This is not glued, tied or anything else. Chain just meshes perfectly with chainring and will not come off that way.
[IMG] http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9627092/p4pb9627092.jpg [/IMG][IMG] http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9627088/p4pb9627088.jp g" target="_blank">
http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9627092/p4pb9627092.jpg [/IMG][IMG] http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9627088/p4pb9627088.jp g"/> [/IMG]
Just back from a proper ride using the Wolftooth chainring (30T) not a single dropped chain. Some pretty bumpy, rocky stuff, finishing with a downhill track. (Admittedly I minced down that, but I'm on a hardtail).
No. chain devices or owt.
Tehan, do you have 32T black SRAM spiderless rings in stock now?
Can you stop spamming the forum now Tehan!
We get that yours is the best and everyone else's product you've not tried is rubbish, but I'm interested in first hand opinions of all the different options, not bloody adverts of yours!
i have never said that someone else's is rubbish. If you got such impression then i am really sorry njee20. I will not post more about it unless someone asks me. Is that ok with you? If you want to test it yourself email me.
MrGFisher- Wednesday in as i just posted last one on sat.
Tehan, the problem i cant get out of my head with your ring is chainsuck. When the ring is a little worn wont the taller teeth just hold the chain? How does it fare in gritty mud?
Tehan - do you intend to make middleburn x-type UNO rings?
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also, does it keep that performance when worn? If it's all about the clever tooth profile does that hold up over time?
Might need to give one a crack next time I need a ring to compare.
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also, does it keep that performance when worn? If it's all about the clever tooth profile does that hold up over time?
He does say on website works better worn than xx1 style, id just like to know what exactly it is that helps, dont doubt just curious and id want a little more explanation before spending that amount of cash.
do you intend to make middleburn x-type UNO rings?
I asked matthew at middleburn the same question last week, they're in development at the moment and he said to keep an eye on facebook for details.
hi guys, i start being more busy than i thought so not much time to read that all, all the time. If i miss something important just write me an emial and i will answer so someone can writie it here is necessary.
But to answer few questions.
There is no chainsuck. Believe me or not but chain goes on that chainring as on any other one (almost) - it's almost ideally calculated so it fits like a glove on hand if you know what i mean. So it meshes like it really should. On some new chains(kmc and xx1 as i know for now) i found that sometimes there is a need of 20miles "bedding in time". That means chainring is a touch more louder than normal. But after that it's all good and silent like on a regular chainring.
Mud - tooths does not wear out down. I mean recesses between tooths almost does not deepen in time. What wears out most is the right hand side of each tooth profile if you look at the crank from the front. But what really helps to keep chain from coming off is the right hand side of that tooth. I can't write more:)
What you have to understand is that thick-thin profile will wear out in mud quickly (in dry a lot longer) and will not hold the chain good anymore (my tester is sponsored by Sram as well and he already has to use chainkeeper on World cup races with XX1 ring after two months in mixed conditions - check marek konwa facebook page). Once that is worn(thinner) and you have regular tooth profile like RF there is absolutely nothing which helps to keep the chain on.
Honestly - no one will be able to make chainring which will keep chain forever. It is not possible and customers need to know that. XX1 dies in two months in hands of a pro rider in any possible condition (UK mud included). Mine will hold same distance from tests we have made, but you get it chaper. I have few amatour testers as well doing bike marathons and they are still happy after 4.5 months with chain retention.
What really matter in era of such chainrings is the question "how long" not "if". So designing it as best as it could be done let you to use it a bit longer.
If you guys doing really big stuff, the the longer you use the chainring (mine or xx1 or other) you will eventually drop the chain. Next year this time it will be obvious when there will be enough people using it.
uff. thanks.
No middleburn x-type UNO rings - sorry. The offset is huge as far as i remember so i would have to use really thick sheets to mill that. I think they use a press to make a dish and that is far too much complications for me to make one ring.
hope you understand.