[Closed] Winterfold Estate (Surrey Hills) update - Keep out of the private land

Why don't they just put a big ol' fence up?

Never knew any of it was private land, thought it was some big national park or something ooops. I live in Wales now anyway, but the point I'm trying to make is it was unclear to me where one plot of land ends and the other begins.

D*ckheads. Gives all of us a bad rep.

Thanks for that DK.. have shared and steered cleared of Winterfold for the time being.

Jack - Lots of small signs posted around the private drive. Folks have just chosen to ignore it. Plus where the trees have been dumped on the above pic is just off a Public Footpath... doesn't help that riders choose to ignore the original intention of that recently built trail (i.e. climb back around the switchback avoiding coming down on to the road) but instead found the easiest solution.

[i]Why don't they just put a big ol' fence up? [/i]

Cost?
the knowledge they can't patrol it and prevent breaches?
an apparently misplaced belief that other people will behave responsibility if you treat them like grown ups?

All things considered, we (mtbers) have got off lightly there. Shame about switchbacks as I still have to master two of the corners and Evian. Rather than reroute, perhaps that should simply be left alone for some time now.

I will have to learn to master Eric instead!!!

Thanks for the post DK. Hope people, respond sensibly

I mostly ride on my own over there, is there any actual map or anything of where we can/can't ride?? It seems like even the areas we can ride are a bit of a "grey area" so no-one likes publishing anything which makes navigating around the real no go areas very tricky.

Will do. There is no need for idiots to put trees over his driveway. I was originally annoyed at the tracks being blocked but after a lengthy thread some weeks back I can understand Jim's POV. Lets not let a few trails closing ruin the access we have for all the others.

Horatio stick to Pitch / Holmbury and the South Side of Reynards.. plenty of riding to be had.

Just leave Winterfold be for the time being till some agreement is reached by possibly P&S and JMcA

Oh right, I haven't been down there for yonks. Hmmmm sounds like nobbers being nobbers to me, there are loads of other trails in them there hills.

I'm not 100% certain on the ownership but I believe the red area is the main Winterfold Estate that's of concern and should keep out of. End of Evian dumps into this, Switchbacks, Twix, 3 Amigos 2/3, SS even are all in this area.

South of that is Hurtwood land.

However it's important to note that while the new Hurtwood land owners (inc Jim) are keeping to the open access agreement, they won't tolerate idiots and uncontrolled digging (any digging there without permission is actually illegal, even if overlooked in the past). Of all the SH, only Summer Lightning, Yoghurt Pots & BKB are accepted & funded trails (sort of official, or at least accepted by land owners. SL being the only one with sign posts).

Grey shaded areas are Hurtwood land.
[img] [/img]

The attached picture shows action caused by a small minority of MTB riders who blocked his private driveway

I don't know the area so this might well be a stupid question, but how does anyone know this? All I can see is a pile of branches on a track - in the absence of people in bike gear bearing cheeky grins, who decided it was done by mountain bikers, and on what evidence did they reach that conclusion?

What a shame.

I don't know the area either, but it seems to be well loved and well ridden.
I may be wrong, but it seems from previous threads that the land owner has been extremely accomodating in the past, which makes it even sadder.

I honestly know very little of the demographics down there, scale, opportunity for riding, density/type of trail use etc.

I presume the official 'bridlepaths' etc that are marked on the maps and run through the estate are still ok to use?

Rights of ways are fine

I honestly know very little of the demographics down there, scale, opportunity for riding, density/type of trail use etc.

Scale of riding around Peaslake area is huge. Typical weekend will see car parks overflowing.

Stats back in 2011 found that 700 people were riding BKB in a day, and it's a lot busier now than it was then.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130210203052/http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167:amazing-hurtwood-mountain-bike-statistics&catid=23:news&Itemid=269

Typically a lot of people rocking an enduro look and riding similar bikes, but wide variety really as there's something for everyone.

Very dense with trails, although concentrated particularly around Pitch and Winterfold.

Thanks for the post DK. Hope people, respond sensibly

you have two hopes and Bob is dead

I presume the official 'bridlepaths' etc that are marked on the maps and run through the estate are still ok to use?

if they are on the definitive map and not subject to a closure or other restrictive order they are open

What's the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

The access issues in this area are a long time brew, going back to 1929 when the Bray estate took the very open-minded decision to open up access to its land over and above what the Right to Roam bill provided. This led to the creation of the Hurtwood Control, with all the rather amazing freedoms we and other recreational users enjoy in that area.

One of the catches is that this activity (and also some rather unfettered and enthusiastic building) has always spilled over into neighbouring areas that aren't under HC management.

The amount of trailbuilding / use has also put a great deal of pressure on the Control itself: it has a remit to allow *all* kinds of use (horses, pedestrians, even for a while husky sled racing) and is obliged to act when one typen of user starts to impede the enjoyment of other users. It also has suffered from a funding crunch as local authority spend and central government support has dried up.

I've been involved on and off (quite lately, due to parenthood, off) with some of this stuff since about 2000m, and I've ridden in the area for longer than that. Ther have alwauys eben problems, frustrations, reconciliations and advances over the years. Often it's come down to things that a small group of riders have done, and a resulting lack of communication between users, managers and owners. The way to keep trails open is twofold: responsible use (all of us) and good communications (as many of us as can be involved).

This is probably preaching to the choir, but please, everybody, respect the wishes of landowners. They own the land we enjoy riding on, and aside from Rights of Way, their good humour, tolerance and relationships wih their insurance agents is all that allows us to keep riding the less recognised stuff. Charlie's first rule, and all that.

What's the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

Leith is still good, Redlands and Ranmore have had some recent closure from what I heard but it is 2nd hand news so could be wrong

Like others say above, it looks like we've got off lightly here. Unfortunately the dickheads won't abide by the "new agreement" and will no doubt antagonise Jim as much as before.

What's the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

All fine from what I know, other than Redlands which is still off limits. Bit of logging happening in a few parts, resulting in the odd trail, eg Waggledance / Regurgitator being a no go. They're rideable, but you might well upset peeps in the vicinity.

Ranmore

Really, which part? Abba Zabba and surrounding area?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

You build up impressions of places from posts, but it's nice to have some context.

I've been up Snowdon and to Lichtenstein more often than I've visited Surrey, but the riding sounds fun.

We're used to hardly seeing anyone out on the trails apart from a few honeytraps and at trail centres.

Good luck.
🙂

SM - don't go by what I said on Ranmore it was 2nd hand news passed down.

Redlands, Ranmore, Mickleham are all sensitive. Redlands in particular is out of bounds and signs go out every now and again saying to keep to rights of way. Ranmore has had similar about illegal digging not being tolerated. Mickleham has Stick Man 😉

Even Wolvens Lane after Summer Lightning has issues as technically you shouldn't be on the "ancient" bank. Though it's impossible to ride the lane especially when wet. Hence moves to try to direct people after SL back towards the tower.

I don't know the area so this might well be a stupid question, but how does anyone know this? All I can see is a pile of branches on a track - in the absence of people in bike gear bearing cheeky grins, who decided it was done by mountain bikers, and on what evidence did they reach that conclusion?

Given the verbal abuse he's sustained from some MTBers who have decided that he HAS to allow them onto his land then it's a logical assumption. Of course it could be local anti-MTB people running a false flag operation to get him to ban people from his land who are already banned from his land.

Basically it's the only rational conclusion as to who put that there.

I'm concerned this will just shift the problem and we will see a spate of new trail features going up on the other more accessible hills. Some people just have to have things their way I suppose.

Redlands, Ranmore, Mickleham are all sensitive. Redlands in particular is out of bounds

and signs go out every now and again saying to keep to rights of way.

That actually applies to pretty much all of England. The Hurtwood is very unusual in being 'open access':
[i]
As The Hurtwood allows public access by a Deed of Dedication, this supersedes any current legislation on public ROW. This effectively means everyone is allowed everywhere unless we specifically deny it; which we have done on particular paths near the villages.[/i]

Anywhere else, legally, you should be keeping to rights of way - a bit of privately owned woodland is no different to a farmer's field. National Trust land is owned by the NT who tend to be very tight about access.
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/rights-of-way-law-in-england-and-wales/basics-of-rights-of-way-law.aspx

Likewise digging in someone's wood in which you're (in theory) trespassing, is legally no different to digging in your neighbour's front garden.

Whether a lot of 'unofficial' trails actually do any harm, and whether a bit of time with a spade to improve drainage and stop erosion from water run off is a positive impact or negative is another matter. For all the fuss about the banks on Wolvens Lane one idiot in a 4x4 will do more damage than 20 years of people riding a bike up it - there are a couple of sections which have just been destroyed.

Rusty - the SH are my main MTB area - along with the Lakes. We are very fortunate to have such incrediible riding accessible to us all. The variety in such a small area is remarkable and it is easy to combine days out with a very large variety of riding in it. I am always amazed when people talk about large number of cyclists. In all the years I have cycled there, the overwhelming impression I get is, where the hell is everyone? Yes some CPs are full but once you are out on the trails I am often riding all alone - at times this is dsconcerting eg, on more challenging and hidden tough routes/features.

The one thing I have noticed in more recent times has been the increase in gap jumps in the middle of well-known trails. Perhaps it started with the one on Super Nova and then spread to Captian Clunk, Evian wtc (not in chronological order). The was always IMO going to end in tears in both senses and it seems this is the case, Plus the sense of entitlement among some riders to do as they please without thinking of the consequences - one owner of another bike shop shocked me on first meeting by his desire and encouragement to test the boundaries on access as much as possible.

The results are clear....

We have been very lucky to ride such a great area, some have pushed that luck too far, let's hope not irrevocably so....

Ranmore has been pretty much untouched until a few years ago and now there are loads of trails appearing. Not a big problem, but some of the trails extend onto footpaths around Polesden Lacey which really isn't good.

Ok for Night riders, but anyone blasting down some of these trails at weekends is going to encounter some NT Walkers/children exploring the local footpaths.

Should probably get this clearly posted up in all the car parks as not everyone who visits will be on this forum.

I heard about this a while back, what a bunch of idiots for doing that, you don't poke the bear. The crap he has had to put up with over the years i'm surprised there aren't automated machine gun turrets in the woods. 😆

Seriously though, there is no need to do any more digging up there. there are a lot of self entitled idiots who think they have all the rights to do what they want up there and it really winds me up. Some of them who should know a lot better..

Just enjoy what is there.

I may be wrong, but it seems from previous threads that the land owner has been extremely accomodating in the past, which makes it even sadder.

no, he's always hated MTB'ers, i along with others were run-off a fireroad by him in his Range Rover back in early 2000's, then got out with his shotgun and got a tad shitty with us.

Nonetheless, can't condone trees over his private road, that's just going to agrivate him. Also MBR/MBUK/PB have got a lot to say for this, they are the most arrogant pricks i've met and always up for an argument, i'll put my bets on it's them that have caused most of the agro.

Redlands in particular is out of bounds

When I lived in the UK I got asked to leave Redlands a couple of times when riding there. Both times I apologised and was polite and got out of there as it's not worth the hassle of any aggro when you know you're out of bounds.

I've had a similar thing Sui, finger jabbing in my face, while hes holding a shotgun. He doesn't deserve a lot of the shit he's given (abuse and trees felled on his drive) but he doesn't do himself any favours.
What's worrying is the rumours he's bought quite a lot more land around the area.

He doesn't hate bikers, far from it, what he hates is people effectively riding in and treating his back garden as theirs, can't say i blame him. the fact they are on 2 wheels is irrelevant.
He's always been pleasant when i've met him, but i'm not the sort of person to get angry for being told i shouldn't be there and i've always been on Bridleways (when we've crossed paths), NOT fire roads, which are not Bridleways...

I've never encountered the man but surely if he was holding a shotgun in his hand while being aggressive why wasn't it reported to the police?

jayouz - Member
I've never encountered the man but surely if he was holding a shotgun in his hand while being aggressive why wasn't it reported to the police?

cos its the countryside, people have gun. He was just a **** to get out of the car holding it whilst having a winge. not really worth calling rozzers over, after-all we were on his land.

If you were on his land or not it doesn't matter, threatening with a firearm is illegal if someone had actually reported it the first time the chances are he wouldn't have a gun permit anymore so wouldn't have been able to repeat it.

If someone was on my land and I pulled a gun I'd expect to be arrested for it.

Leith is still good, Redlands and Ranmore have had some recent closure from what I heard but it is 2nd hand news so could be wrong

You are right re Ranmore...with more closures to come. North side of Ranmore Common Road though...those trails that are in SSSI. Those on south side of road ok for now.

He can claim he has a legitimate use for the gun, and it's your word against his. He is a rich man, (I'm not) and has expensive lawyers. Funnily enough, he was a lot more polite and nice when I met him, and he had the hurtwood ranger guy with him 😀
I do add, i am always nice and polite to him, he's not worth arguing with.

"Pulled a gun" 🙄

I hope people are sensible and stay clear for a good while until things calm down. I first started riding there 15 years ago, it is so so much busier now and apps like Strava mean the "secret knowledge" or hours spent exploring can be short circuited and this increases traffic. The extent of the building and the types of more jumpy trail features just add to the problem.

Whilst quite a bit of the area is open access a large amount is not, idiots jist chise to interpret the whole area as [b]their[/b] public access playground.

The trees accross his drive appeared shortly after he blocked off some trails on his land. Does not take a genius to work out it was idiotic MTBers who did that.

Jeez, when are people going to learn that tolerance from landowners who may have to pick up the insurance tab if we **** up badly is the only thing that allows people to ride in some areas?

And getting a bollocking from someone who is at the end of his tether while he is holding a shotgun isn't exactly "pulling a gun" or a threat to kill.

Waving a gun around when members of the public? Doesn't matter how much they've been wound up - that's out of order. No-one needs a gun in the UK

Unless they are a farmer or landowner on their own private land who weren't expecting to come across self entitled trespassers whilst going about their legitimate business or past time.... Shoots are common in the area, farmers use guns. A couple of the pubs are frequented by game keeper types.

No-one needs a gun in the UK

Quite a lot of people need them, quite a lot of people use them and regard them as a tool of the job, in the way a builder carries a hammer.

The fact that some people don't get this fact leads to a lot of hysteria and over reaction.

You are far more likely to be killed by someone with a hammer/screwdriver etc than a gun.

He probably kept hold of the shotgun, so it wasnt left unattended in his vehicle

You are far more likely to be killed by someone with a hammer/screwdriver etc than a gun.

Probably not when you adjust for the relative population sizes of guns vs hammers/screwdrivers, eh?

If it's private land, i can see why the owner may revoke access, but jumping out of a car with a shotgun... Really? Has nobody ever got this on camera and reported it?

My view is ownership of some woodland in an area like this, especially by some millionaire, should not prevent others using it in a non distructive way. To me that means no eyesore jumps, but bike trails should be permitted as it avoids conflict with walkers and horse riders. I know this is not what the law says, but laws change.

[quote=Andy ]He probably kept hold of the shotgun, so it wasnt left unattended in his vehicle

Yep. There are rules about leaving firearms unattended.

I don't like the direction this is going - next thing we know people will be attaching cameras to their kids in order to film their rides and their meetings with big Jim. They will probably post them on some form of social media too.

Save us.....

We have been here before on previous threads but

revoke access

I agree with TeamHurtmore on this. The shotgun, or the landowners behaviour is a distraction here. Lets stick to the point which IMO is about a minority selfishly building jumps on private land which is leading to access to a great riding area no longer possible. Shouldnt we be talking about how we manage this as an mtb community rather than debating which is statisticly or actually more deadly, a screw driver or a shotgun 😆

teamhurtmore - Member
I don't like the direction this is going - next thing we know people will be attaching cameras to their kids in order to film their rides and their meetings with big Jim. They will probably post them on some form of social media too.

Save us.....

Of course, they won't try and antagonise the situation for the camera at all....Oh no. Not at all.

Lets stick to the point which IMO is about a minority selfishly building jumps on private land which is leading to access to a great riding area no longer possible.

Amen, brother!

I'm sad that I don't get to ride the SH much any more, as it's the location of so many happy memories, but it was getting silly when I started moving away. As others have said, so many people getting all stormtroopered up and thinking they were in their own private Whistler bike park, rather than a lovely part of the world with some lovely riding. And, it should be noted, some very accommodating land owners who were willing to work with the MTB community. All of that risks being ruined by cockwombles thinking the world owes them something.

People just need to respect the wishes of the land owner, whether they agree with it or not. The fact that he owns the land is reason enough to revoke access to it and some individuals need to grasp this concept rather than ride around with some sense of entitlement that they can do what they like, where they like.

In this case a minority have kept on pushing the boundaries to the point where the land owner has decided has had enough and if I were in a similar position, I would probably react in the same way. There had to be a bit of give and take on both sides and clearly some piss taking has lead to too much take.

As already mentioned there are plenty of alternative trails in the area to use and for the sake of the bigger picture I hope the Winterfold ones are left alone otherwise we may well end up with nothing at all. Again, let's hope those with the entitlement gene don't **** it up for the rest of us.

Went for a ride yesterday morning and it appears some of the signs bordering the non hurtwood part of his land have already been torn down. 🙁

My worry now is that if the 'MTB community' (as if that exists, you can see the split between those that want to respect this and the ones that think their entitlement trumps all) - I digress - if the MTB Community shows itself unable to respect the requests of the landowner here, then other landowners either adjacent to this land (Hurtwood) or even further afield (MOD around Woking?) will think differently about what they want to do.

If I was a landowner / agent of another area currently discussing responsible access to 'my' land for recreational MTB'ing, I'd be watching this with interest. And abusing the landowner, blocking his road, tearing down his signage - it wouldn't be making me feel warm and fuzzy about opening my land up subject to following some basic rules.

Watch what you do people.... this has implications beyond a few square yards of Winterfold.

TBH what is likely to happen soon is he'll just start calling the police and claiming aggravated trespass any time he sees a mountain biker as he's had enough run-ins and people riding around the logging areas to justify that being the case. This is what often used to happen on Redlands; no landowner or their representatives, just the police as the first port of call. It's the main reason that Redlands is considered almost a no-go area; there is zero tolerance there.

My worry now is that if the 'MTB community' (as if that exists, you can see the split between those that want to respect this and the ones that think their entitlement trumps all) - I digress - if the MTB Community shows itself unable to respect the requests of the landowner here, then other landowners either adjacent to this land (Hurtwood) or even further afield (MOD around Woking?) will think differently about what they want to do.

Very valid/good point. We dont want to lose all access. That would be 1000 times worse than losing Winterfold.

Discussing this at work the other day and we had an idea. The main issue (there are a few though) or real sticking point for Jim, as far as I know, is the insurance implications. I wonder if during the discussions with him it could be discussed how much it would cost to extend the insurance to allow bikers in certain areas.Depending if the cost was reasonable, what "reasonable" is, i'm not quite sure, but we, ie the MTB community who ride there could could do a crowd funding campaign (or similar) to raise funds to cover the cost for a year. Yes, of course there will be people who ride there and who wont pay, but hey, at least it might become available again - with some rules. Just an idea, lots of pros and cons of course, but it could be a starting point??

it's an idea and worth investigation but I suspect fraught with difficulties - i can't imagine a policy to cover any / all unnamed riders against accidents on 'unsanctioned' and uncontrolled trails, with no grading, no checking, no idea whether that trail's had a gap jump suddenly added to it........ is going to be anyway near affordable for the 'few' to fund on behalf of everyone.

That said - if someone wants to do that legwork and if it did turn out achievable I'd find a few quid to support it.

@bgas that's an idea but in practice I wonder what it would raise ? ("I'm not paying to ride just a few trails when the rest is free" type logic). I wonder how many mtb-ers are Friends of the Hurtwood (£25) or put a £1 in the collection cairn at Walking Bottom ?

Hello, just tagging thread.

rather than ride around with some sense of entitlement that they can do what they like

In one.

This place is not a bike park.

I wonder how many mtb-ers are Friends of the Hurtwood (£25)

/puts hand up.

I wonder how many mtb-ers are Friends of the Hurtwood (£25)

More so how may mtb-ers follow the code of conduct for riding in Hurtwood.

The insurance thing is a noble idea but in addition to what jonv says would be a nightmare to regulate/manage. Perhaps circulate a flyer on all vehicles parked reiterating the code of conduct and general situation emphasizing respect etc with a few notices posted at the start of trailheads. Of course would need a discussion with the landowners, Mark, P&S etc but just an idea to get the word out to users of Hurtwood or even spread the word through the local bike shops.

a flyer on all vehicles

90% of which would be flung to the winds. Sadly.

I was a member when I lived locally but have let it lapse I admit. I do put a £1 in the cairn when I am there (2 years ago now 🙁 )

Sadly as mtb-ers we do generally spend ££££ on bikes, kit and fuel to drive there but expect to ride for free.

those trails that are in SSSI.

SSSI, Nuke?

I wonder how many mtb-ers are Friends of the Hurtwood (£25)

I was for years until they sold most of it as a way of avoiding tax on profits when Handa Bray dies.

They only own Holmbury hill now, and i expect that to be sold in the next 10 years or so

Kind of lost me then sadly as its run as a charity

Apparently Jim did ask to buy the whole lot at a discount but he was turned down.........

It's interesting as someone who lives at the other end of the country to see how this thread started as "poor landowner doesn't feel it's safe for him and his family due to a load of digging" to "landowner has run people off access roads and threatened them with shotgun, but people should still be nice to him and we shouldn't talk about him being a dick".

If someone goes around threatening enough people with a 4x4 and a shotgun, instead of requiesting politely that they leave his land (i.e. what he's legally entitled to do), someone's going to do something back to him, and I think he got off lightly with trees across his drive.

.

If it's so much trouble running the land he owns already why does he want to buy more of it? Genuinely interested in his motivation behind owning such an estate.

philjunior - Member
It's interesting as someone who lives at the other end of the country to see how this thread started as "poor landowner doesn't feel it's safe for him and his family due to a load of digging" to "landowner has run people off access roads and threatened them with shotgun, but people should still be nice to him and we shouldn't talk about him being a dick".

If someone goes around threatening enough people with a 4x4 and a shotgun, instead of requiesting politely that they leave his land (i.e. what he's legally entitled to do), someone's going to do something back to him, and I think he got off lightly with trees across his drive.

The problem is, you end up with attitudes like yours. Viewing winding up landowners as some sort of sport. The problem being that to him you're just dickish MTB'er number 20 of the day and his accommodating nature ran out 19 dickish MTB'ers ago.

And no one's been threatened with a shotgun or run off the road. They've been stopped by a guy in a 4x4 holding a shotgun.

If it's so much trouble running the land he owns already why does he want to buy more of it? Genuinely interested in his motivation behind owning such an estate.

He owns all of Dunsfold as well and as that is to be developed into a new town he will be a very wealthy man I guess. There is profit to be made on the timber that is grown and i imagine there are tax benefits to owning woodland.
the whole of Pitch hill was sold for arounf 670k so not really big money
I believe he offered around 1.5million for all of the plots that were up for sale

Probably so they can frack it all.

Probably so they can frack it all.

Well (pardon the pun)thats not so far fetched as there is gas on Blackheath and oil on Leith Hill

They've been stopped [u]on his private land[/u] by a guy in a 4x4 holding a shotgun.

Well (pardon the pun)thats not so far fetched as there is gas on Blackheath and oil on Leith Hill

OTOH my dad's a bit of an ex-hippie and keeps talking about buying bits of remote woodland/moorland/hillside. I think the idea of owning land and having a corner of the countryside you can call your own just appeals to some people.

As I point out to my OH every time the garden needs weeding, I hate gardening, I'd much rather have a few 10's of acres of nature around my house than a few hundred square meters of manicured suburban lawn.

"No-one needs a gun in the UK"
Quite a lot of people need them, quite a lot of people use them and regard them as a tool of the job, in the way a builder carries a hammer. The fact that some people don't get this fact leads to a lot of hysteria and over reaction.

Sure, that was a crap comment. I have in laws that are farmers and have guns which they use both to dispatch pests on their land and shoot game.

Knowing the tracks through Winterfold I'm not sure why he'd be driving with a shotgun in the cab of a vehicle or why it would be safer to get out of the car carrying it rather than leaving locked in the vehicle (other than to add a level of threat or intimidation). It's woodland, he's not keeping animals. I've never come across pheasants being reared in that part of the hills (though they may be there). Who knows.

I'm not sure why he'd be driving with a shotgun in the cab of a vehicle

Well he is South African........

why it would be safer to get out of the car carrying it rather than leaving locked in the vehicle

IIRC (it's been a few years since I had any dealings with firearms, and then it wasn't shotguns) it may well not be down to his individual discretion and judgement - it may well be a condition of the licence that it isn't left unattended in a vehicle, full stop, no get outs, no exceptions - it's either in your locked cabinet at home, or it's on your person at all times.

jambalaya - Member 
I wonder how many mtb-ers are Friends of the Hurtwood (£25)

I am 🙂 . Been a member for a few years now.

I see they also do an Easyfundraising thing on their site now. Raises money via shopping.

https://friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/

xcgb - Member 
I was for years until they sold most of it as a way of avoiding tax on profits when Handa Bray dies.

They only own Holmbury hill now, and i expect that to be sold in the next 10 years or so

Kind of lost me then sadly as its run as a charity

The Hurtwood land maintained by the Friends still covers the same areas, it's just different land owners. So far they're still retaining the open access, including Jim for the bits he now owns (the Winterfold Woods area of issue is non-Hurtwood and always was). It wasn't all the Brays anyway even before the sale.

Funding the Friends retains the ranger which keeps the car parks open, paths clear of fallen trees, including on tolerated trails, clears fly tipping*.

* which is a note as Surrey CC claim fly tipping is down since introducing charges at the tip, but that only covers council land. Private land owners still have to clear their own land and that doesn't go into the council stats.