[Closed] Why so much hatred for the Orange 5?

They're a bit like Morgan cars IMO - haven't followed the market in technical development and are distinctive because of it, look different to the rest of the market, still made in Britain rather than as part of a global supply chain, cost a bit more as a result, are a hoot when you get them going and those that "get it" and live with the idiosyncraces love them.

Thing is, the 'unfashionable' older models are shockingly good value.

I'd struggle to see much difference between a Five and a Patriot if you slapped an air shock in the back tbh.

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binners - Member

The thing is with Oranges of all descriptions, but especially Fives... is that when you spend a lot of the time on the trails all year round, proper trails.... you know the ones... big rocks and stuff.... at night, in the rain, snow even, in axle deep grinding paste ... you tend to see a lot of them.

That probably tells you all you need to know.

You certainly see a lot of them in Calderdale, ridden by the kind of individual who'd regard a broken limb as a minor inconvenience. 🙂

As for 'customer service':

The one and only Orange I've ever bought arrived at the shop from the factory late, the wrong spec, and 170mm nds and 175mm ds cranks.
Neither the shop or the factory were interested.
Quite some time ago now, but it's put me off buying another.
Is that just 'whining' Hora? 😀

[i] If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me

obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them. [/i]

well I was going to say the first thing and now I'm intrigued by the second.

obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them.

Why?

Yeah come on Ton, why ?????

i am sworn to secrecy, if i break my oath i shall be strapped to a ducking chair and dunked into a pool of lager till i am dead.... 😀

spectabilis - Member

What a **** analogy !

i'll admit it's not the best analogy, but it's how i feel, that's my response the the OP.

In what way does a decent MTB relate to a hatchback with reliability issues...?

the rover 75 was a deliberate look to the past, and we can do better than that. The orange5 is blah blah blah

Are Defenders still shit off road ???

a defender may be a great off-roader, you can buy a new one for what? £30k?

how much is a new range-rover with all the toys? £70k?

Orange are charging modern, hi-tech prices, and delivering an old, low-tech product.

They can do what they want, it works for them, my dissatisfaction is probably of no concern to them whatsoever.

Orange are charging modern, hi-tech prices, and delivering an old, low-tech product.

No, they're charging UK built prices. Are £60 Renthal bars cutting edge tech, or Hope brakes? Sort of missing the point.

Lots of threads on Stumpy Evos at the moment, rocking that state-of-the-art 20 year old 4 bar linkage.

Trail bikes are about 30lbs, my Five is about 30lbs, so is my Stumpy 29er, so was my Meta. Weight really isn't the most important thing to look at imo, it's certainly not why I bought mine. My Mojo was 26lbs, it broke though. My 2001 Enduro was about 30lbs as well come to think of it.

Are they not the almost do everything bikes ( but not quite ).
It's a bit like some bikers that used to slag of BMW boxers because they saw them as boring,no fun and not good enough to stay with the pack.
Didn't stop people having a good time on them.

See also Ford Mondeo...
Got them where they wanted to go ( most of the time )

People have different needs,so I bet the Orange 5 ticks a lot of boxes even if it isn't the best at anything.

i am sworn to secrecy, if i break my oath i shall be strapped to a ducking chair and dunked into a pool of lager till i am dead....

Sounds like a good way to go!

I'd be interested in hearing more recent stories about shocking customer service from Orange. Could save me a few quid 🙂

a defender may be a great off-roader, you can buy a new one for what? £30k?

how much is a new range-rover with all the toys? £70k?

So which superior bike have you in mind which costs less than half the price of the 5 ?

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

The 5 is a British classic. It's no accident that they have won so many awards and had such incredible reviews over more than a decade. They are the "Land Rover" of the bike world. The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made but the design is incredible. You can feel that they are made by people that are passionate about riding bikes rather than somebody that is seeking some sort of scientific advantage in a wind tunnel.

I had an 08 one that I sold earlier this year. Always liked it though.

If I was buying another full susser I'd be closely comparing the current 5 with the new Heckler. Both single pivot, both very good and similar.

Prices are not yet out AFAIK for the Heckler, but will be an interesting comparison...

I test rode one last year, rode really well on the downs, felt quite like my ASR5, but felt dead and heavy on the climbs. They engineering is very agricultural for the price, so I can see why they get a bit of a slating from that point of view.

The Five frame is about on the money...in fact given that it's built in samll numbers etc it makes some of the stuff jobbed out in massive numbers look bad value. Not sure in the complete builds because they don't strike me as value fir money but then again Spesh bikes aren't either these days (just look at the spec of a modern Rockhopper compared to one from four or five years ago). They look OK too in my eyes.

I'm not anti single pivot but for whatever reason have never got on with Orange full suss hikes despite loving the hardtails that I've had. Most of my linkage bikes have done surprisingly well in the wet with regards to bearing longevity. And as one or two have pointed out the FSR design isn't exactly new / cutting edge but it works and has fans so continues just like a single pivot.

[wind up]
People who think a Five is too expensive really want one but just can't afford it.
[/wind up]

There's a reason there are so many 5s up North, in Wales and even the Alps - they work. Of course this doesn't sit well with the stormtroopers who think they need a carbon Ibis to trundle around the Surrey Hills, although in fairness a 5 wouldn't look quite so nice on the Thule Aeros atop the midrange S Line diesel Audi 😉

When it came to replace it 2 years ago (after the first frame cracked)...//...If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Looks like a heckler, dropped top tube, single pivot, slackish geometry, I love my heckler. If it ever breaks it'll be replaced with a heckler or a 5, whichever pops up first on classifieds. rrp for 5s does seem a bit daft, could be wrong but weren't hecklers going for £950 while 5's were £1499? Wait and see what the new prices are like i guess.

catvet - Member

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

[img] [/img]

it's a test-bed for a parallelogram* 4bar (to see how they ride), and some new internal-sleeve pivots i was messing around with.

the next prototype's a little different, and i'm still working on the pivot locations, and i'm not sure how to create the mitre-templates for a tricky 3way junction.

(*ok, it's a 'tweaked' parallelogram, i wanted to try a little anti-squat-ology)

the frame cost me around £2000 or so to build.

Don't hate, just don't really like them...

Old Sub-5? Loved it! (and that looked even more filing cabinety)

Also quite liked the first of the mk1 5s, but just cannot gel with the later ones, uphill always feels like more of a drag than it should be and downhill no better than many other bikes (and worse than some).

SP for reliabiltiy I get, I mostly use a SP bike when I'm off on big rides away from home, I don't particularly like the bike, and it's not the quickest up or down, but I use it cos it's reliable, tough and I don't really give a sh1t about it getting bashed up, I imagine a lot of 5 owners are in exactly that camp, it does everything they need adequately and doesn't go wrong, they're very commendable qualities in a mountain bike and probably worth the marmite looks and price to some people.

They are overpriced for what they are, but then so are a lot of other bikes/brands, that's not a reason to hate, just a reason to shop elsewhere if it's not what you really really want.

It's not the bikes, it's mostly the owners 😉 Particularily that weird thing loads of them do, which is to assume their bike does something other bikes can't. Like the Grantway himself, always banging on about how a Five could do four foot drops, or how he'd ridden it round the mighty CLIMACHX!11!!onE. See also: "the bearings don't need replaced every 5 minutes", "They're bombproof"... "They're handmade" (most bikes are). "Huge mud clearance" up the page is a new one by me, it's pretty average.

And of course everyone who thinks "too expensive" = "can't afford it".

Still, they remain the number one bike for riding chicken runs on glentress red so who am I to criticise 😉

Don't agree there's hatred of them. A lot of piss taking mind, but that's because whiny little princesses going all "wah wah if you don't like my pushbike you're just jealous" is pretty ****ing funny!

I think people hate (or at least publicy berate) the five because so many people love them say how good they are. Simple as that.
Plus, quite an easy target because some see them as relativley unsophisticated.

It is FUGLY though. Naymind.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Now that IS ugly. 😉

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Holy mother of freaking bat-bikes 😯

I'll keep the Five, thanks.

ahwiles - Member

catvet - Member

Perhaps ahwiles to save the posts getting very silly you could post up your state of the art innovative fully suspended ground breaking bike?
So everyone can see the comparisons with a humble Orange Five.

here's a prototype i knocked up a few years ago:

Hey Isambard Kingdom Brunel want his bridge back.....

The "best" line so far (IMO)...

micky - Member
The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made ....[but the design is incredible.]

There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s.

Part of me likes the fact that a company sticks with a design that works rather than the constant annual BS of spurious improvements, but they do seem to be the staffies of the bike world!!!

Despite what folk say about Walking Bottom Car Park 😉 I hardly ever see O5s on the trail in the south but loads in the Lakes. For some reason, they always look good moving but less so when static. Maybe that's the riders....!!!!

[* have no idea if this applies to O5s as I have never owned one.]

Been shopping around for a new bike and didn't really want to buy an Orange (fancied something a bit different). However, the Five seemed to tick more boxes for me than any other full sus trail bike.

Dead simple design and the geometry was spot on (for me). After weighing up all the other options the price and weight seemed pretty comparable.

I guess I'm fortunate (unusual?) in that I also really like the look of them 🙂

micky - Member
The 5 is something we British can be very, very proud of. They are expensive and badly made ....[but the design is incredible.]

Badly made?

Utilitarian yes, compared with carbon bling, but they don't break or wear out. My eight year old Five frame has taken a battering and still going strong. That's a *well* made bike.

Never ridden a 5 but I don't think I'd get one purely for shallow reasons - they look awful. The newest Patriot on the other hand looks so nice, just seen this posted up by Bikeactive on facebook, if it was an orange colour it'd look spot on!

[img] [/img]

I don't reckon orange bikes are really for me though, the geometry looks too long and stable/planted - I prefer short and fun.

Doesn't it look just like a Five apart from the top tube?

There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s

Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

I agree wholeheartdly with your first line. Gobsmacking how they can charge similar pricing to a US brand thats got an importer/distributor to feed as well in the mix.

Well Santa Cruz and Trek are about as American as On-One are British, and still charge the same/more. In all three cases I bet the frames come straight from Tiawan and have never been to America.

joolsburger - Member
There seems to be this rather quaint notion [in lots of things] that just because something is British we should be prepared to accept poor manufacturing standards*, poor pricing, poor service etc. Hardly a recipe for producing world class companies, but hey we learnt that in the 1970s
Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

One thing I like about orange is the solid colours (no two-tones,or flashes etc). However, their stickers having been getting more and more garish..resulting in the horrendous set on latest five 😯
Who is their sticker man...needs to be taken out and flogged!

Perhaps I'm the archetypal Five owner who seems to be so despised on here. 57 years old but very fit and trim, worked in IT until I took early retirement 5 years ago and only got into mountain biking about 10 years ago after many years as a roadie. Started off on a cheap rigid bike and then moved on to an Inbred SS and and a geared hardtail. About four years ago I finally decided to see what full-suss was all about and tested a few bikes. Really fancied a Santa Cruz Blur but couldn't justify the cost new and couldn't find my size (XL) second-hand.

Eventually went on an Orange test day at the Surrey Hills and the Five just felt right. I wanted the Pro spec. but again couldn't justify the price of a new one but one came up on eBay for £1500 in good nick which I eventually got for £1400. Great bike and a real skills compensator for someone who never had the benefit of learning to ride off road when younger. I did also fancy the simplicity of the single pivot as well having read many horror stories about owners having to replace multiple bearings quite regularly on other makes. I have a mate who has a Trek Top Fuel for instance and his bearings are always creaking.

I didn't buy it because I thought it would enhance my image or as part of an ego trip. I think there are plenty of bikes out there that would do that far better than a Five so don't quite get where people are coming from with that theory. I was also a bit disappointed to read on here lately that Orange can't even supply replacement 26” swing arms any more so if/when the Five cracks I'll be looking elsewhere next time. I love the bike but don't have any particular brand loyalty to Orange as it seems like they don't have loyalty to their customers.

I can't believe this has gone to 3 pages and not one person has mentioned the new Five being 650b...surely the perfect clash of STW forum's most 'loved' subjects 😆

Doesn't it look just like a Five apart from the top tube?

Sort of, it just looks nicer for some reason. The 5 looks all sharp edged, cheap and horrible. Plus the aforementioned bent top tube looks awful.

ton - Member
If they are good enough for the Sweary Northerners, they are good enough for me
obviously you have no idea why the sweary northerners ride them.

POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Cos they are the best do it all trail bike out there, regardless of price, a loyal company that looks after British workers...but most importantly they are very good bikes, solid and reliable. Ain't that right ton! 😉

spectabilis - Member

Hey Isambard Kingdom Brunel want his bridge back.....

it's even more 'challenging' with the saddle up.

Like the Dyson Airblade - Worst. Urinal. Ever.

Am I the only person to wonder what it would be like to, you know, lower the old fella into one?