What Danny McCaskill does is flat out impossible for most people. However, you can ride the same trails as most downhillers fairly easily, you just do it slower. And still have loads of fun.
I would love to give it a go but job plus kids and likelihood of injury puts me off.
Also it was also a question about why so little coverage of it in MTB media? It is literally called Mountain BIke Trials according to Wikipedia. Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?
Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?
I'm not saying this just to be STW too-cool-for-school but I've honestly never heard of him. I was only vaguely aware trials was a sport and people actually compete in it. Seems like a good way to ruin something that might be fun.
All I see on YouTube is the occasional Danny Mac million dollar blockbuster and Ali Clarkson building ugly bikes with his weird voiceover.
Oh where is the PMSL smilie?
Even those objecting to me have agreed. It is all because trials is too much like hard work, in some form, for most of us. It needs skills, time, money, lack of other more interesting things to do. As I said.
As for being elitist. Excellent. First rate idea. Fits in nicely in STW where you are slated if you don't agree with the current political whim, use or is it don't use a wood burner or save/screw the planet, wear lycra or no helmet peak, long socks/short socks. Pick it.
As for skills compensators, we all use them. I have those funny things called gears and brakes on my bikes. The fixed doesn't do every job I want. I most definitely chose to go faster on my aero TT bike rather than the pre WW2 SA hubbed thing. Don't deny such compensation, enbrace it . I am sure some DH super star called Atherton could go down most hills faster than many of us on my 1985 Dawes MTB whilst we were suing any works rig chosen.
Chip? Yes.Too many smart alecs trying to say that they are right and no one else is.
Jack Carthy a British Trials rider has only won the world championships ten times. What does it take?
It's a very niche discipline, within a niche sport. In the public spotlight I'm not sure that currently there's room for anyone else alongside Danny Mac. Five* time world champ or not.
I've dabbled. I'm not very good at all to the point of ridicule, but it's a great way of working on skills that are transferable to the trail. I'm still yet to come across a large stack of pallets in the woods, but come the day I'll be ready for it 😉
Ever seen it on TV? The only place I saw last year's trials world champs broadcast was from a link on Facebook shared by a finalist's mum!
* Jack's highly talented but doesn't need his results multiplied by two to justify his awesomeness.
Too many smart alecs trying to say that they are right and no one else is.
😂
To do myself - just not of any interest. Like others above, I come to mountain biking from a journeying and an endurance athleticism perspective and nothing has really changed on that score. The idea of an evening of 'sessioning' a technical bit has never really appealed. I'd probably be a better, more technically competent rider if I had done it a bit. I guess the closest I've got to that are the odd trip to a trail centre and doing the same 5 or 6km loop a few times. But learning bike handling skills as a thing of itself has always bored me rigid - I'd rather my lungs and thighs were on fire or I was having a contemplative glug of a brew of choice looking back across a vista I had just travelled through (with my legs and lungs on fire). I don't see what I want to do is better or more virtuous - just more me.
Watching other people do it - I'm just not too bothered about that. And that's pretty much any discipline in any sport. I just don't seem to be wired to be a sports voyeur.
* Jack’s highly talented but doesn’t need his results multiplied by two to justify his awesomeness.
I've never been a great sports watching person, I just saw 10x UCI World Champion in multiple places, GMBN being one of them, UCI website being another.
It's not very interesting to watch (I'm excluding Danny Mac/Chris Akrigg as what they are doing isn't strictly trials) all the utching and thrutching to a soundtrack of honking brakes is undoubtedly skillful but it gets tedious pretty fast. The very reason that Danny and Chris are better known than Jack Carthy is that they recognised that they need to do something other than pure trials.
Trying to suggest that good trail skills mean that people are doing trials feels like it's stretching the point to make it fit. Being able to do a short track stand is useful on a trail doing it for ages with hippy hops less so, being able to hop over small obstacles is useful jumping onto cable reels less so, endo turns are helpful being able to do 360 sounds not so much. Going out and practising trail skills is one thing but trials feels/appears contrived.
Bunny hopping and nose whips etc on trails is part of normal MTBing, doesn't count as actual trials IMO.
Not at all, and I have no issue with people simply not being interested. IMO saying “it’s not actually riding a bike” (or words to that effect) is either snobbery, jealousy, or some other form of negative judgement that massively undermines the skill, practice & effort needed
I can only apologise if I've offended anyone by saying its not riding bikes to me. I probably worded it badly. It doesn't fit in in with my riding of bikes. I get that some trials skills would be helpful for mtbing. Obviously having the balance and agility that goes with trials riding would be massively beneficial when getting over obstacles or getting round tight switchback corners. But to me traditional trial riding as in hoping around on poles and stuff that Danny Mac does is ok for a few minutes but is then just really repetitive and boring to watch.
Chris Akrigg dropping a video every year or so is great as he add she'd loads more to it, but even then if he did too many videos it wouldn't be interesting anymore.
I don't doubt the skill levels that people like Akrigg, Danny Mac, or the other guys have, I certainly couldn't do it.
I do agree about having a go in the garden though, and I do every now and then, challenging my son to do things but I get bored very quickly with it. Probably because I'm shit at it though!
My earlier post was not meant to be snobbery though, so sorry if I came across as a ****!
So fair question, why do people love those videos but have no interest in going out and doing it (clearly, millions of people aren’t aspirationally buying trials bikes?). That seems the weird bit the OP might be getting at.
A number of people on this thread Including me) have specifically explained why they have no interest in going out and doing it. The fact a few of you are not listening is not our problem.
I like watching it at times, I am even subscribed to Ali Clarkson on YouTube, but have no interest in using my 'riding' time dicking about on a a bike. I spend 8 years doing that between 8 - 16 years old on a BMX and was obsessed with it at the time but now older just simply have more interest in actual riding (i.e. covering miles)
To my mind in no particular order.
1. At the top end of the sport it looks very skilled but unappealing. Loads of officials, odd bikes that can't even be ridden down the shops.
2. At the competition end the fashion for some rean is a mix of track suits and ronhill tracksters.
3. No flow.
4. No culture. This is my own thing thot any may find hard to understand but I am primarily a bmxer (a crap one) and there is a very strong culture in BMX and this appealed greatly when a teenager and gaining interest.
Street trails are interesting and that side of things seems to have progressed well. It still lacks flow in in general.
The basic moves are definitely worth learning, side hops pedal kick hops etc. I wish my pedal kick hops where better but I can just about get off something even if I can't "jamp a gap"
Needs a dedicated bike that is probably a niche to far for most people who can dip their toes in on a regular bike?
Like a Planet X Jack Flash? They're what, 50 quid new?
@JonEdwards that TrialsTrails video looked like it could have been lifted off several stages of the Naughty Northumbrian, I was amazed how many folk didn't have the control skills to navigate some of the sections.
I just saw 10x UCI World Champion in multiple places, GMBN being one of them, UCI website being another.
@sirromj, I wasn't having a dig at you, the 26 year old "ten times world champion" needs to wait until he actually wins the UCI world champs ten times before calling it. He's not Nino, not yet at least.
Like a Planet X Jack Flash? They’re what, 50 quid new?
That’s a bit like claiming you can compete in the DH WC at Fort Bill on your Calibre Bossnut £1000 full sus. Technically true but there’s a lot of difference. In fact it’s probably a bigger difference than that.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">
I think the ‘problem’ (if indeed there is a problem) is that trials in the 90s was something you did on your XC bike (a hard tail of some description). It was accessible to anyone who rode mountain bikes and it was just mucking around on knee-high obstacles. A sort of sideshow to MTB. Then it gained popularity and the internet came, and people realised you could actually do much more (harder stronger <faster> better), especially with a dedicated bike. So trials splinters off and becomes its own thing, with weird bikes and massive obstacles.
</span>
I used to ride trials for a long time. Whilst it’s given me some useful transferable skills, it’s a completely different sport to MTB. From a time perspective it’s more about hanging out in town centres with mates, which is find hard to justify to my wife/son. A bit like BMX in that regard. MTB is more socially acceptable and middle class wholesome. I’m pretty sure the demographic of this forum is not really representative of those who ride trials.
That’s a bit like claiming you can compete in the DH WC at Fort Bill on your Calibre Bossnut £1000 full sus. Technically true but there’s a lot of difference. In fact it’s probably a bigger difference than that.
Except its not and you're completely missing the point. Back in the day the Jack Flash was a perfectly adequate trials frame. For just learning it's fine, if you want to compete then by all means buy a £1k+ Intend or whatever but for just learning the skills you don't need anything beyond a low frame and suitable bar/stem setup.
This is why we have the bullshit arms race of Next Big Thing shite that we "need" in order to get on the trails. 1x, droppers, tubeless and numerous other things that are nice to have but by no means essential for getting out and learning on.
I’m not “into trials” and I’m pretty hopeless at almost al things trialsy. However, when I’m on my hardtail I’m much more prone to trying to do low speed track standy stuff whilst, especially now it’s a singlespeed (this morning I had challenge of a steep rooty climb where half the riders had gears and half didn’t, so you’re rarely going at the right speed and have to pause and wait without dabbing).
I might look into basic trials moves a bit, it’s just that practice time challenge…
As title really. I’m curious. Trials seems to be the forgotten bastard son of mountain biking! Lost count the number of times it isn’t mentioned when every other discipline of MTB is mentioned.
Sure it’s difficult, but it’s not just about having what appear to be super human skills like Danny Macaskill or Jack Carthy. It isn’t just about riding on the back wheel on bikes that look like pogo sticks.
Even the basics (while I’m not claiming it will change your world) can be useful for regular everyday riding.
I think there's two bits. Practising basic skills is valuable and important, and I have wished since about 1993 that I could bunnyhop over logs on the trail (but have somehow never really put the work in to learn).
But I feel like most trials, to watch, is one of those things that if you don't know about it, how difficult it can be, it's just not that interesting. Like guitar players. You could watch a legend at work, but if you don't know that he's playing triplets in 7/8 in the Lochrian mode, then it just looks like some guy noodling around a bit.
Same with trials - whereas to the layperson DH can look spectacular, or epic wildernesses look beautiful, or swoopy singletrack just looks fun, trials just looks like some guy noodling around a bit.
Right - I've been practicing 'low-speed-bikehandling' for the last 4 years or more. It looks a bit like trials and I've also ridden motorcycle trials a couple of time at "Trials Day" with Stuart Day.
I have an old Cotic BFe frame with a rigid fork and a singlespeed and I ride around the village track-standing, popping wheelies, manuals, hopping the front/rear wheel, riding up objects, bunnyhopping and generally mucking about for an hour at least once a week. I'm 56 this year.
I am never going to enter a competition, not my thing, and I'm never going to pogo around on the backwheel but I think it makes me a better rider and it's another opportunity to ride my bike and get out of the house for a bit.
More people should try it - it's fun and a helluva work out! More like 'strength training' than 'aerobic training'
Bunny hopping and nose whips etc on trails is part of normal MTBing, doesn’t count as actual trials IMO.
You could say that about pretty much any aspect of bike riding. Riding downhill is a normal part of MTBing. Sure, it's not 'Downhilling' but no one feels the need to make the distinction and say DHers aren't part of the umbrella group of mountain bikers..
Trials is just one aspect of MTBing that's taken to the extremes. Same as Downhill, XC, ultra-endurance, etc.
For me it's watching something that I'm remotely capable of - i.e. I like watching DH sometimes as it relates (loosely) to the riding I actually do (rode down Fort Bill WC course years ago, just about 10x slower than the pros).
For that reason, I'm not really into watching massive jump lines either
Looks like a fun way to mess about, I'd love to improve my skills on the trail bike (kind of like in the Akrigg video).
Having a special bike for the specific purpose, and entering a competition though; just a step too far for me.
All bikes a re a bit specialised now. At the other end of the spectrum, I'll never entre a downhill race. I'll almost certainly never have a DH bike unless I can man maths justify it for a morzine trip.
However the skills based from it, and the thrill of watching good people do it, are of interest to me as an average trail, xc, enduroist.
It took ages to find this because I couldn't think what it would be called. Turns out it's a 360 Nose Drop. Who knew?
This was about the best trick I could do but it was easily 20 years ago, maybe a bit more. Back in the day when everyone's eyeballs weren't glued to a screen if you popped one of these down the seafront everyone used to stop and watch. Little kids used to come up and ask if you were sponsored.
The advantage I had back then is that my only bike was a 26" hardtail with a wheelbase that could fit in a shoebox and I used to ride it EVERY day.
I wouldn't mind being able to do one of these in the trail centre carpark, just so all the other 40 year old Dad's knew who was boss. It would be a big effort on the current bike. It would take about 10 seconds for the fork to compress and the rear wheel to come around.
I just can't see a world where i could have the coordination for a 360 nose drop or anything like that... Just not now, not ever. I don't think my little brain could compute.
It's only 2 moves really. 180 endos are fundamental. Pretty easy to do and probably the first thing you'll learn. You then just need to pop off the front wheel and the momentum carries you round.
I learned to do it on kerbs first. Just get used to holding the rear wheel up long enough to load the front wheel and pull up to hop out. It's much harder to do a 360 like that but you can learn the technique low down then as the drop gets bigger you have more time for the full rotation.
I'm talking myself into it now! I bet I have to phone in sick when I break my ankle in B&Q carpark or something.
I'll be in A&E shortly too mate, i'm heading out for a gap jump session on a jump i've never taken on before...
@sharkattack cheers, now found the website to go with that video!
https://trashzen.com/balance-for-biketrial.php
A lot of useful stuff there.
Good luck!
Also check or the Super Rider channel on YouTube for more beginner techniques and ofc Ali Clarkson.
The complete disappearance of any street trials riding scene probably doesn't help. I got into trials and did it for years because other people were into it and you could always find people to ride with and learn from. It had its time, then everyone got a dual slalom bike or something, and that was it. Though Danny Mac would bring about a resurgence, but I can't remember the last time I saw anyone actually out riding trials.
I'm grateful for all the skills I learnt, but doubt I'd bother learning them now, because yes I would feel a bit odd mincing about getting punctures on kerbs by myself.
Childhood dream bike alert...www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/590581822800266
Strong money though. I might be tempted for half that price.
I'm in Sheffield and I actually have seen groups of lads riding trials in the city centre. But they are all young lads who ride the kind of bikes that can't actually go anywhere and it's an awful lot of stopping and hopping around. It just looks a bit goofy to be honest.
I think that's why when I was a kid my favourite rider was Chris Akrigg. Everyone else was squeaking around in a leotard and he went really fast everywhere and looked really fluid and aggressive. Also, his Pace, box section trials bike? OOF.
Still a stunner,
Some good points made in this thread.
Trials certainly had its moment in the spotlight in the 2000s. I was a teenager at the time, wheelie dropping off everything on a jump bike with a bash guard in a helmet plastered in MBUK stickers. I have no idea why the Macaskill, Akrigg etc type riding hasn't become more popular, perhaps because there is such a high skill barrier to entry and the basics are very boring to master unless you're a teenager in a car park with your mates.
My general thoughts are that is now a mega niche, akin to flatland bmx as mentioned earlier, but the basic skills are fundamentals everyone could benefit from.
The thread has motivated me to polish up some of the skills. I've always wanted to be able to hop along stepping stones on river crossings. Anyone got any links for tips with this?
I quite like messing about with things like nose pivots, rock walks, track stands and back hops whilst waiting on others for a ride. It's good fun.
Heres a selection of how tos
Ali C how tos
Super rider how tos
Duncan Shaw how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1hkg-vrMm4fFN9x3EndqRLssxggjiWPH
Cornwall bike trials how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdyZBajcP4z9B0DI-aFzjM1X0-NxJGWqx
The useless trials how to
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmqC3wPkeL8mhup2EKBixPRpyZIE_z708
Steezy Stern how tos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQF1BHw3eXjTgDlNZD76EcAT4ddGNiBDI
