I’m only in favour of limited segregation – the rest of the time roads should be designed to slow cars down and allow everyone else to share them.
+1
and it’s already pretty unpleasant to drive because of the congestion, people might actual thing it’s a better way to travel!
Nope. Cars are comfy; warm, insulated, you can listen to the radio, sit down, these days ( because traffic is so slow and cars so easy to drive) you don’t even have to concentrate that hard. Cycling is cold, wet, miserable, dangerous, hard work and sweaty.
cycling is never going to be mass transportation in this country
I'm a Cllr with sustainability responsibility and we had a whole load of cycle infrastructure improvements and active travel measures proposed as part of the local cycling and walking infrastructure plans and the emergency active travel measures earlier last year. We were mostly ignored by the County Council who hold transport responsibility and seem to respond more to car parking moans rather than public realm, air quality and health arguments. Too much of a 'them' and 'us' attitude permeates discussions round these issues rather than looking for the wins (where possible) for all road users. Covid-19 seems to have made more people think about their lifestyle patterns and maybe this will encourage more cycling provision?
I just can’t get to Hereford without taking deathtrap A roads, or else country lane and farm track detours totalling hours of additional riding. So I go on the train. Silly, for a 20 mile journey.
You're right.
But the vast majority of people in this country cannot conceive of cycling 20 miles unless it's for charity.
The fact that many people on this website do exactly that as a daily commute and much more at weekends does not, unfortunately, spill into the general population.
That said, it needs a tiered system where for short journeys, it's easier to walk or cycle; for medium journeys it's easier to cycle, bus or train; and for long journeys, it's easier to train or car. It's why stations need top quality secure cycle storage options in the suburbs and a cycle hire scheme in the city centre. Ride to station, lock your own bike up knowing it will actually be there when you come back. Train to town. Cycle hire to office/shops, dock bike, walk. Reverse journey.
When I talk to non cyclists, I get the same comment as nickc above states.
Also now parents wont let their kids out of their sight, no way will they let them ride bikes. They will view that as way too dangerous. Remember going to school in the 70's, we walked or rode our bikes. Now everyone is driven by their mum in a massive car.
We are not going to change that sadly.
cycling is never going to be mass transportation in this country
Except in London. Because driving is a pain in the arse there, which forces people onto bikes. Which they end up appreciating, I think.
it actually needs to be made LESS convenient to use cars.
Bingo. Try that on Question Time in Toryworld/entitled UK. There’s a difference between a 1970s outcry of: ‘save our children/save our town squares’ - vs a 2020s ‘scold’ of: ‘cancel your cars, because, er, cyclists’
Even as a dyed-in-the wool lifelong cyclist, cycling-advocate and environmentalist - I can’t see past how that suggestion is even remotely palatable at this point in UK history. A point where cultural crossroads don’t even seem to exist. It’s cars all the way through, down and out. At least with diesels you can hear them from behind...so enjoy the ‘good’ years of articulated particulate-breathers, because I was ‘eased’ way into the door-zone by a Tesla in town last week, and I never heard it approaching until I saw it by my right elbow.
The fact that many people on this website do exactly that as a daily commute and much more at weekends does not, unfortunately, spill into the general population.
Many STWrs commute daily by bike? Maybe. Probably much higher than the general population (less than 1%?), but probably not so high as a percentage of total readership.
I don't disagree with that, and I think we have to write off any adults who don't cycle already, but I think kids now and future generations could have a different attitude IF we can get the infrastructure in place - which (partially) solves the "dangerous" problem, and ebikes/scooters solve the "hard work/sweaty". Cold/wet still issues yes - but it doesn't rain THAT much in most of the UK - and if we can re-organise things so that more emphasis is placed on facilities being LOCAL then that keeps any journey times short.Nope. Cars are comfy; warm, insulated, you can listen to the radio, sit down, these days ( because traffic is so slow and cars so easy to drive) you don’t even have to concentrate that hard. Cycling is cold, wet, miserable, dangerous, hard work and sweaty.
hope so, would be a silver lining... certainly seems to have encouraged/accelerated cycling projects near me e.g. linking nearby towns with traffic-free routes (a couple of new ones look like they're actually going to happen now which is great!)Covid-19 seems to have made more people think about their lifestyle patterns and maybe this will encourage more cycling provision?
Hopefully it’ll start to change now that lots of cities are instigating Clean Air Zones (Bath’s starts next month and Bristol is hoping to follow in the autumn). If nothing else it might push people to cars that pollute less. But hopefully a knock on will be less cars in general.
Someone in government needs to just have the balls to make some big changes. I’m sure it won’t happen but we can hope and campaign and complain.
Someone in government needs to just have the balls to make some big changes. I’m sure it won’t happen but we can hope and campaign and complain.
Well the Road Pricing argument is coming back around...
https://www.transporttimes.co.uk/news.php/Can-National-Road-Pricing-Survive-Real-Politics-604/
Last addressed semi-seriously by Labour in early 2000's but now much more of a pressing issue with the massive tax drops expected from the switch to electric vehicles. ULEZ and congestion charging only gets you so far, it needs a national policy.
yeah something's obviously got to change as in 9 years all new vehicles will be zero-rated for VED, congestion charge (as it stands), ULEZ etc so that's a massive drop in revenue.Well the Road Pricing argument is coming back around…
Believe the London Congestion Charge is already slated to apply to electric vehicles from 2015 (hybrids sooner)?
A massive difference between the UK and placed that have high levels of cycling infrastructure implemented (Netherlands, Denmark, etc) is the average size of supermarkets.
Suburban UK relies mostly on vast out-of-town massive supermarkets, whereas in my travels round the aforementioned countries all I've ever seen are much, much smaller places - similar in size to a typical local Co-Op, or maybe a Lidl/ALDI as a push but that's it. There definitely don't seem to be the massive retail parks either, everything is more integrated. You'd need to fix that via planning restrictions to even have a hope of getting people out of cars (which, tbh, I don't see happening).
As an aside, there's an interesting study which shows a strong correlation between supermarket size and obesity levels: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4511521/
To quote:
"From our data, it is clear that the lowest store size and obesity rates were from the three northern European countries sampled. These countries have high urban population density combined with infrastructure that encourages shopping trips by foot, by bicycle or by public transport rather than by car [10]. As a result, shopping trips in these countries may be more frequent, involve active transport and the carrying of groceries, and be more likely to include the purchasing of fresh, perishable foods. As such, large supermarkets may be a useful marker for a cultural and social pattern of shopping and consumption that promotes obesity [11]."
Except in London. Because driving is a pain in the arse there
50p says the numbers of folk using some sort of motorised transport (car bus taxi etc) outweigh the cyclists by an order of magnitude
As such, large supermarkets may be a useful marker for a cultural and social pattern of shopping and consumption that promotes obesity
Spot on.
As a kid growing up in a village at the edge of a town I’d regularly be asked by parent to ‘run up the grocers and fetch me this’
2 x carrots
A large onion
1 lettuce
1 mile later they’d be on the kitchen table and being prepped. Subsequently I’d then be asked to run to the corner shop (closer) and fetch cheese and eggs. Some shoe laces. Even a Curlywurly for my services 😋
FFWD 25 years and it’d be a trip to Lidl, same village, car park full of cars. Trolley full of ready meals and plastic packaging. Maybe an extra steering-wheel cover from the aisle of dreams for your car’s services...and a family bag of caramel chocs for the driver...or a big bag of peanuts and 2 litres of Cola...wait, just grab a couple of those frozen pizzas, daft not to at £1.69...
Then do the Big Shop™ at the weekend at Mozzers/Asda/Whateveros
Thankfully my pannier maxes out before the overdraft 😛
yeah something’s obviously got to change as in 9 years all new vehicles will be zero-rated for VED, congestion charge (as it stands), ULEZ etc so that’s a massive drop in revenue.Believe the London Congestion Charge is already slated to apply to electric vehicles from 2015 (hybrids sooner)?
I assume you meant 20[b]2[/b]5?
They certainly need to split Congestion Charge from ULEZ - all vehicles cause congestion therefore all should pay the charge (obviously not emergency services).
However you can the split the rest into polluting (therefore pay ULEZ) and electric / hybrid therefore exempt.
And the use both tools together to manage firstly a shift to cleaner vehicles and secondly a shift towards not driving in certain areas.
Milton Keynes is the best place I’ve ever lived for cyclists - and I’ve lived in a lot of places. However, it’s a long way from being perfect; it seems like it was designed by someone who’d had a bike described to them but had never ridden one.
There are unnecessary elevations: as you cycle along by a road that could have been made with a spirit level you find yourself rising up and plunging down, and when you reach the bottom there are blind right angle turns so you have to slow almost to a stop ... just before another rise. The roads are straight and signposted while the cycleways meander and have few signs. Every time they cross cars have priority, no matter how major the cycle route or how minor the road.
In weather like we’ve just had you can tell how just how seriously the claim that cycling should be an integrated part of the transport system is taken: there are floods everywhere. Some are shallow and small, others wide and bottom bracket deep. Some are probably unavoidable - next to rivers or canals - but others are where the path is badly designed with an avoidable basin. I quite like cycling through them, and it often doesn’t matter what state I arrive at work in, but for most people these conditions make it difficult to cycle to work.
So yes, by UK standards it’s great, but the redways system is not part of a serious, integrated transport system. In truth it’s there to keep cyclists off the roads so cars can travel faster.
The air quality argument is coming into play more and more, for example:
In addition to climate change, air quality forms the strongest argument against new roads, more cars, not investing in alternative transport, etc.
What's always been strange is that ~2,000 road deaths in the UK are automatically rendered an invisible, or implicit cost of doing business.
^ still less road deaths per million than (say) The Netherlands, or Denmark. Interesting.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323869/international-and-uk-road-deaths/
