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Something i've always wondered is why tubeless technology in relation to the rims just tended to stagnate over the last decade, i remember when they first started out, there were a few designs, you had the rim strips and so on, but then in the push for weight cutting to compete with normal tubed wheels stans came along and rim tape won the day, and seems to be the only show in town these days.
I don't mind rim tape, if it aint broken and all that, but i do feel that there could be a better solution with rim designs, it just seems rim tape can cause issues if it doesn't take first time, you then have a cleanup and retaping, or for me when i break a spoke i always seem to pierce the tape, meaning a horrible cleanup.
I know there was some stuff done recently with rims doing away with internal holes, but has there been any real work put into this, wheels do seem to continue with the nipple and spoke, but are any companies working on a way to make tubeless simpler and cleaner, with the price of wheels these days i'd have thought it was a good opportunity due to being able to soak up costs the drip feed through the range over the years.
UST was the original and best, I guess cost/complexity is the reason you don't really see it.
I use strips, I find them better. But modern rims have the shoulder build into the rim so perhaps not necessary these days.
I can’t recall ever having to retape a rim, once it’s done right it works until the rim is dead.
[strong][/strong] wrote:
I can’t recall ever having to retape a rim, once it’s done right it works until the rim is dead.
Never had a spoke snap? Most rim tape failures I have seem to be from spokes snapping and the nipples shooting through the tape like a rifle bullet! Must have happend 4 times over the last few years. The Mavic SLR type spokes which screw into the rims mean there is no need for holes in the rim surface but I am not convinced that is a great system for most wheels.
I've seen a fair few where the tape seems to stick to the tyre and peels back when the tyre is removed. Probably would work with a new tyre but I tend to retape them. Better rims are shaped so that you can seal the nipples holes with narrower tape and stay away from the shoulders.
Personal, I like my lightbicycle rims where they're happy to provide a UST rim bed at no extra cost.
Some companies still use removable rim tape, Specailized for example with their 2bliss tape which ive used many times with various wheels and its never let me down
One of the reasons companies dont do a way with internal spoke holes is because they are a pain for a wheel builder to build, or even joe public with a simple spoke and nipple replcaement job
My Campag wheels have no spoke holes in the rim bed, so to replace one nipple you have to take a small cut off of a steel spoke, thread the nipple on to it, drop it in to the valve hole then using a magnet drag it round to the inner spoke hole location, pop it through the hole, unscrew the cut up spoke and now attach the new spoke
Now imagine doing that 24 times for one wheel!
The earliest tubeless setup was UST which didn't use tape, it still basically the same setup on carbon rims where the inner rim wall isn't drilled.
Then we had those rubber/plastic rim strips from Stan's and Bontranger which had a kinda UST profile and sat inside a conventional rim.
Then (or at the same time really, the strips were just for mass market backwards compatibility) "tubeless compatible" rims came out which borrowed from UST (or improved, or made their own interpretation) which combined the profile needed for tubeless without the expense of proprietary nipples or other stuff.
Other than not puncturing if a spoke snaps there isn't really a downside to it? The only other times I've had issues have been when trying to use something other than the correct sized Tesa strapping tape (I.e. the Stan's stuff).
I used to get all kinds of problems with the tape. Sticking to tyres, getting a nick in it. Spent so long watching videos and reading about how to do it the right way etc
Still rubbish at it - to the point that the thought of changing a tyre gave me anxiety.
So I bought really high-end but unfashionably narrow UST wheels (Mavic and Fulcrum) second hand cheaply and am much happier now.
Saying that, my electric MTB was set up tubeless by the folk I bought it off a couple of years back and I've never had any bother. But have also never changed the tyres! Saying that, 35mm rims should be easy to do with narrow tape in the middle so the tyres never catch it
Its cheap, its easy and it works.
There's too much faffy nonsense with bikes to wish a change to0 stuff that works
On the odd occasion I have needed to replace a spoke I just peice the tape, yank the nipple oute etc then bung a bit of tape over the hole.
Perfect.
I recently had a spoke snap about a week after re-taping my wheel, I couldn't face redoing the whole wheel so just stuck a bit over the hole and super glued the ends which seems to be working at the moment.
I first went tubeless with Mavic and Shimano wheels which were a fully sealed rim and so easy to deal with. It actually also made spoke replacement far easier as you didn't even need to remove the wheel to do it. The only real downside was the alloy spokes on the Mavic wheels!
One of the reasons companies dont do a way with internal spoke holes is because they are a pain for a wheel builder to build, or even joe public with a simple spoke and nipple replcaement job
and would render a lot of expensive semi-automated wheelbuilding machines redundant
and would render a lot of expensive semi-automated wheelbuilding machines redundant
I've often wondered how they deal with getting even tension.
Although I suppose a robot will know exactly how many turns it's putting on each nipple and can clamp the spokes to prevent wind up so maybe the step where you desperately go round with a guage trying to even out the tension on what is already somehow a straight wheel with uneven tension isn't nesecary as long as your spokes are all cut with perfect accuracy.
Bonty rims that came on my rail don't have any need for tape, nice.
There have been a couple of attempts to make a change, obviously closed profile UST rims, and early on moulded plastic full inserts on some cheaper mavics (essentially a more rigid stand in for tape).
There's Been attempts to sell individual hole plugs (was it Roval?), but they didn't really take off as a product, no idea how good they were.
The truth is that tape isn't a bad solution, it can be fitted to various different profile rims without needing lots of rim specific variants, it can be replaced easily, it allows you to construct a wheel in a conventional way with nipples fitted from the well side of the rim, it's pretty cheap...
No real problem with tape here either, although would be nice if manufacturers could make pre-shaped tape out of a semi rigid material that was just tight enough that you had to snap it into place. Make it adhesive too so once snapped into place you could peel off the inside paper tape uncovering the glue and letting it stick to rim. Would guarantee best fit and you could even manufacturer it with little lips at the bead so the tyre bead would seat against it etc.
13thfloormonk
No real problem with tape here either, although would be nice if manufacturers could make pre-shaped tape out of a semi rigid material that was just tight enough that you had to snap it into place.
I have a set of Specialized carbon wheels with exactly that, just a reusable elastic loop of tape, works really well. Newmen offer a similar tape for their wheels, which I'd buy if my existing Stans tape wasn't doing the job without issues.
https://r2-bike.com/NEWMEN-Rim-tape-Tubeless-Strip-32-mm-29-2-Pieces
dc1988
Free MemberUST was the original and best, I guess cost/complexity is the reason you don’t really see it.
Makes for a heavier wheel (potentially much heavier depending on how you do it), but mostly they're just harder to live with overall- sure you get the permanence of no tape but the tradeoff of possible minor hassle with tape for the extra hassle of repairs isn't close to worth it imo. I mean, I have a busted nipple and mangled spoke in my one set of UST wheels and I've literally not fixed it just because it'll be a pain in the arse.
(it'd have been easier with mavic-style rim inserts but then they made for XC wheels that weighed as much as trail wheels)
But wider wheels make tape a non-issue imo- the only times I've ever replaced tape was when I either had to fix a spoke, or I'd damaged it removing a tyre, and now that rims are wide you just don't have to have that last problem any more- if only the middle's taped then it'll never get damaged by the tyre. So as long as you use decent tape, it lasts indefinitely. That's made a useful difference.
I'm surprised more people haven't done things with hole plugs, that looks pretty effective.
I remember using ghetto tubeless before rim strips. 24" tube split down the middle and stretched over a 26" rim with the valve used normally - always helped to have one with a removable inner. Loved it and my first goes with it had me standing on the tyre to pull it off the inner tube when I needed to replace the tyre as it was that well glued on with sealant.
Anyone want to buy a Park Tool Mavic UST system spoke wrench? Used once for a wheel build and will never ever do it again. Ever.
@dreednya - I always stretched a 20” tube around my 26” wheels. I still run ghetto tubeless (Jared Graves did it for years and if it’s good enough for him…). I’ve been trying to decide if a 24” tube would be best for the 29er I have and need to covert, if you used them for 2y then I guess that should be good.
Never had a problem with either several wraps of electrical tape and/or ghetto split tubes.
More than once I've needed to chuck an extra layer of tape on a wheel when the tyre/rim combo wasn't sealing properly. Would any of the other tubeless solutions allow that?
My first tubeless setup used Joes Rim Strips - basically ghetto tubeless but pre-packaged. I guess they solve some of the problems being experienced on here. FattyStrippers do the same job.
I've still got Joe's strips in my singlespeed! Bit of a PITA replacing the tyres TBH, because the strips stick to them and come off with the tyre. Quite tricky to get them repositioned with the strip up the rim wall, and then the tyre on without dislodging it again. Tape for me on tubeless rims is a winner in my book.
I imagine a rim with 32t large holes drilled in it is also a good chunk lighter than one that hasn't.
The first tubeless kit I had was dtswiss rims with a semi plastic rim strip with contour built in to hold the bead. Was a pita to fit and remove. And valves that had to be fitted separately. Then came stans rim strips which I guess were like purpose made ghetto tubeless.
I prefer what we have now with tape to be honest. I’ve added runs of tape to repair holes made by broken spokes etc and it’s no biggie. Even a complete retaping isn’t too much of a chore really is it?
I think if UST was the answer we’d all still be using it.
My Mavic Allroads don’t require rim tape as there are no spoke holes. Works fine. However max of 40 psi pressure when tubeless, I think as a result (though don’t think I’d need them higher).
I used to love Mavic wheels and the convenience of UST.
But even they had moved away from them on the last pair I bought (which were XAs), probably so they could make them a bit more competitive on price.
I find I have to re-tape every year or two, depending how often I end up changing tyres. It just gets nicked or pulled up at the edges.