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Everything bajsyclel says rings true for me also, I suppose. I am a climber, walker, mountaineer and enjoy map reading and navigating, but it's a means to an end on a bike. On a bike, I just want to get out, ride and have fun, with mates. I'm probably not and have never been, organised event type material tho.
Ton: HeHe, I've been riding my bike and running.
Got visiting rights for the evening, but my sober STW probation officer in the morning will tell me my time is better spent out there.
Over your way in August for a couple of weeks, lets ride and drink beer if I don't see ya before
To be honest if I had to pick one navigation 'event' I'd like to do its probably the big welsh ride thing.
rich, i am up for the beer bit mate. 8)
Why don't you ride trailquests ?
why should i? - convince me! 🙂
(yes, i'm being a little awkward...)
I did orienteering at school and it was alright, but only because I could read a map and so beat the faster kids (I was a bit lardy then).
Did a TQ last year at wellesbourne, my teammate (pairs) failed to turn up, so I did it on my lonesome. The first control point was a nightmare, I was exactly at the point on the map, searched for 15 mins, couldn't find it, rode off. 2 mins later down the hill, I remembered along with a map, I had a cluecard as well, which stated the exact location, hidden so that a randomer wouldn't find and disturb it.
After that infuriating first point, I had a great time navigating round, seeing some interesting views and places I hadn't been, nice bridleways and villages. Pushed myself so that I was miles away from the finish nearing the end, so I had to pegg it back for 35 mins at full speed, the hardest sustained ride I have ever done. I definitely want to do more, I have moved back to London for uni, although coming back up to the midlands this summer. Will definitely do more TQs in the future, and have all the MTQs in my google calendar, so if I'm free I'll be heading to the local village hall and signing up.
I agree with the Picto, richpips and njee20 stance really, for me it's about riding ace singletrack as fast as my chubby little legs will propel me (so not very quick then) and the thought of biffing around on my own looking at a map and then riding down some uninspiring trails because they'll get me back to the beardie geography teacher to mark my homework just doesn't really appeal
EDIT: waves at Picto and swears about a small time trialling obsession that seems to be growing in my mind 😳
I used to do them,enjoy them and not do too badly in the results.
But in those days, other than XC racing it was the only thing going. The last TQ that I did, left me believing that the guys who rode it for fun have moved on, leaving the harcore of supefit fell runner types, sad to say it felt like a different sport.
not done one before but i'm interested in giving one of the NEMBO league ones a go as they'll be closest to me - thanks for the heads up MidlandTrailquestsGraham
I nearly got mown down by a pair of abusive knobs doing a TQ on my local bridleways in the Peak a few years back. Idiots riding straight at you in a drooling frenzy of desperation to reach the next checkpoint don't do a lot to spread the love. I'm sure it's not typical of TQer behaviour, but most of the competitors we saw that day seemed grumpy and po-faced and it's put me off the things permanently.
That and seeing people wearing Tracksters in OAP's recent checkpoint photo collection - surely there's some sort of law against that these days 😉
Today's mid calf socks are tomorrows tracksters.
Racing is good, riding with a map is good. Using a map to find the fastest (rather then most enjoyable) route between points doesn't really appeal.
I've done a polaris and a couple of trailquests. The best one was a night time event in Cannock Chase about 10 years ago.
I'd rather do an MTBO or TQ than riding around a muddy paddock for 12/24 hours.
Diffrn't strokes for diffrn't folks.
Once or twice a year there will be a trail quest around some of my local trails. On these days you can pretty much guarantee that an army of balding lycra wearing men in their forties with bun bags, salomon trainers, G-shock watches and red buff round their head will rampage through the forest as if they were (at least in their minds) the SAS storming a foreign embassy.
On at least one occasion I've exchanged some choice phrases with some of them as they took exception to people riding their bikes the wrong way (downhill) on "their" route (a downhill track).
I don't think you could pay me to be in room with a group of questers so I really don't think I'll be partaking anytime soon.
No appeal for me. I have done a couple of races but finished midfield - but enjoyed the mass event aspect. I am a map geek but like to use maps to look for the best places to ride not the quickest routes. it just seems like neither fish nor foul to me
The mtb orienteering event - felt the check points were too close together, it was difficult to go fast between points because the distances were so short and it was easy to miss a turning.
Which event was that? I could think the sprint events I've done would match that description, but at least for me they were fun because of the intensity of concentration required.
Normally MTB orienteering (where you have a fixed order of checkpoints to get and quickest wins, rather than get the highest score within a fixed time) addresses many of the criticisms of others, as with good planning you do get to ride the interesting tracks. That's a combination of having a more fixed route, with checkpoints in the middle of interesting tracks, thus forcing you down them, and the use of specialised maps which actually show the single track. Because of the fixed route, you can also make use of a much smaller area. If anything, taking part in an event like this can actually enhance your enjoyment of an area, as it becomes a challenge to ride tracks at speed which wouldn't be that difficult if just riding slowly.
wearing a cardigan with buttons on the front
I'd love to do one but all my spare time is spent looking for a cardigan that has buttons on the back.
Don't own a Marin, don't have a beard and don't wear tracksters.
So I'm out.
(Actually I have done a few before and won a category once)
Yes, Trailquests do have an image problem.
I have never done one (although weirdly I organised one for a corporate games once) and what puts me off is that you don't have extra points for writing down the numbers of any trains that you see en route.
Now that would get you some new members !!
sometimes navigating the diversions at afan is enough of a trailquest
Ive read all these comments, and the threads before on the same issue.
Ive wondered the same thing and feel that its a change of attitude that has a lot to do with it.
It seems a lot of riders only go riding if:
- They are following a trail center route.
- They are following a waymarked trail / mag route.
- They are being led round.
- They dont have to plan anything.
Look at the number of threads we get on here where people say "where can I ride" - they dont think of looking at a map.
Look at the way trail centers have grown in popularity - its all on a plate for you with graded runs and a one way system.
A lot of people cant read maps and now use a GPS in their car.
People also want to ride socially, look at the popularity of things like 12/24 hr races. They are very social, for most its Beer/BBQ/camping with a bit of mountain bikeing thrown in.
People are also very unlikley to be self reliant and self responsible. When faced with a challange the default action for most people now is to look for someone else to sort it out, or tell them what to do and how to do it. Planning their own route to a time and doing it on their own is so different to pretty much everything else they now do in life.
I love navigator events, I love maps and am happy riding them on my own. For years I did all the Trail Break ones, and miss them now they have stopped. Their numbers dwindled from a few hundred down to a few tens in the end. They tried using GPS's, doing them in the evening from a pub and changing the format. Didnt work out.
People seem to want to put less in for more return. Working at your fun is seemed not to be fun.
I applaud your efforts at spreading the word about the event, but I think most people unsuited and unable to do them, which is a shame.
No appeal for me. I have done a couple of races but finished midfield - but enjoyed the mass event aspect. I am a map geek but like to use maps to look for the best places to ride not the quickest routes. it just seems like neither fish nor foul to me
oh shit. 😯
i like riding as fast as i can (in events/races), stopping to read a map isn't in the plan. i can read a map and enjoy looking at them and planning routes for something different, paticularly if im visiting a new area. i have no interest at all in doing a trailquest.
It needs new clothes doesn't it? Literally and metaphorically, even the name sucks like a Dyson - anything with the word 'Quest' in it sounds like some awful, dungeons and dragons nerdfest.
Jazz it up, make it interesting, give prizes for stuff other than collecting points, add some 'special stages', re-invent it or live with the reality that old, tired formats attract the same people who are comfortable with them.
Go back to first principles, ask yourself what the events are trying to achieve then find a newer, fresher way of doing, which doesn't reek of Tracksters and mapboards.
Incorporate modern technology - GPS, geotagging, digital photos. Make it interesting, Make it original. Call it something new and contemporary, make it something different...
It's all a bit Werthers Original.
+1
I rode the dark and white winter series last season for the first time. Overall very enjoyable.
The thing that would put me off doing it again is the quality of the riding, it seems to be often around places with not much off road riding. And then, crucially for me, you seem to be able to win by staying on the road as much as possible and riding a bike with drop bars and then running the last few metres to a checkpoint. If there was a way to make the riding more technically challenging, and the points system to reward more technical riding, it would definitely improve it for me.
All sports have their sub-genres. I'm a climber and I enjoy long multi-pitch mountain routes but don't enjoy indoor wall climbing even though it's a valid sub-genre of the sport.
Same goes with biking - there's many 'disciplines' to the sport, XC, trail, freeride, DH, trials and so on. It's simple really, what one person likes the next ain't necessarily going to.
For me, biking is about a 'flow' and not about stop-start or maximum heart rates etc (not that TQ is about the latter).
Each to their own, one is not necessarily 'better' than the other that's all.
I know that whenever trailquests get mentioned on STW there are people who like to sneer at them
I sneer at your trailquest.
And I enjoyed doing it.
After dabbling with TQ a few years ago, I'm back doing dark and white's winter series just gone, and the summer series this year. I race allsorts - 24hr, short xc, triathlon, road running, fell etc...
Obviously they're all different, but trailquests are possibly my fave - the fastest 2/3 hour segments of my life, because you need to use your head as well as lungs and legs, you're on it all the time.
There's so much bobbins in these threads, and crikey's post above just doesn't make any sense whatsoever! Yes, you're penalised for being late - or as you put it [i]'doing it wrong'[/i]. It's what makes it a challenge, otherwise it becomes a navigational day out & the organisers will never go home. Absolutely, there should be a lot more of that in the world!
Anyway, there's loads of reasons I like Trailquests/MTBO's/whatever they're called at the moment:-
[list]
[*]You need to use your head. There's way more than just navigating between points - you use gradients and flat areas to your advantage. I tend to create a general concept in the first 2-3 minutes after being given the map (dark and white events you get the map with CP's marked as your time starts), then get out picking up points. Navigation is an on the fly exercise - I never stop riding to navigate, it's all done on the move[/*]
[*]It's exciting & fast - you don't know how many points someone else might accumulate. I hammer myself, the 2-3 hours is absolutely flat out, and as mentioned, you'll not ride harder when tired as in the last 15 mins of a TQ![/*]
[*]They are what you want them to be - if you don't want to ride hard, don't, just have a good ride navigating yourself around[/*]
[*]They open up new areas - There are bits of the white peak I'd not ridden before which I will do now.[/*]
[*]They don't all start in church halls 😉 [/*]
[*]They're cheap - £10-15 for the dark and white events[/*]
[*]There's a big range of abilities & ages - very few bearded people, and there's a fair mix of the sexes :)[/*]
[*]They're friendly events, way more so than a lot of xc racers. You don't have to be social though, you can go straight home afterwards if you want[/*]
[/list]
There's loads, I might add more as they come to me.
There's an appeal - I've done one before, and I've done many Polarises, but mostly it seems like a good ride spoiled by having mess about with a map. The best fun I've ever had on them was mad dashes for the finish line with minutes to spare. Or an hour and a half to spare with 20 miles of off-road and a mountain in the way...
I remember the Brecon Polaris a few years ago, it resulted in me TTing along the canal towpath at ludicrous speeds on a sunny Sunday afternoon weaving in and out of the dog walkers most irresponsibly, and tearing through town as illegally as possible like a New York courier being chased by a helicopter. It's amazing what you can find the energy for after 2 days of riding 🙂
Rubbish riding.
Actually, one of the reasons I like them is that they make riding on less good areas fun. Living in the S of England I don't have regular access to the sort of terrain where I would want to go for a an epic day ride, but I did a 3 hour Trail Trax event the other day and got a really good work out just S of Basingstoke, and it was fun!
Before I had kids I used to do loads of TQs and Polaris (and MTBO), but Polaris went downhill in the early 2000s. TQ used to be fantastic when I went round the country doing them and discovered The Lakes, The Dales, Wales and Scotland by bike. But now that I've ridden most places, they don't have quite the same appeal - and I'm also less keen on driving for miles to get to events (so I now have fun discovering smaller areas in more detail by orienteering).
A trailquest is a race, therefor the point is to win, not have fun.
Biking should be fun, therefor no racing.
I like maps, I like navigating new places, I like riding fun trails, I like riding new fun trails I've found on a map. I have no intrerst in riding the quickest route between a collection of points other people want me to go to.
Add in my experiences of meeting trailquesters/Polarisers out and about in a variety of locations - range from grumpy to downright obnoxious. No response to a greeting, riding like a t!t past other (non bikey) trail users, and the sheer number of times I've had a gate slammed in my face when I've literally been within touching distance of it - that's just ignorant.
So to conclude - simply not interested.
I've only ridden one trailquest event - the Clent Canter as a pair with my bro. We did well and came 2nd overall I think.
It was good fun I must admit and despite going into the event for a bit of a laugh, we got really competitive as soon as we started.
It's a different slant on mtbing and can open your eyes to trails you would never think of including in a ride in the area that look pointless on a map, but are sometimes little gems.
O.K. it's not for the extreme sports end of the mtb rider spectrum, but once in a while as an alternative type of day out on the bike, why not?
A bit of tactics and planning added to the excitement I thought and boy, does the last hour go quickly!!!
Add in my experiences of meeting trailquesters/Polarisers out and about in a variety of locations - range from grumpy to downright obnoxious.
have we met?
Yeah, there are a lot of old fogeys there. Also a lot of people who are only out for a laugh. Which is fine, but it's hardly a race then is it?
I love to race because I love the imperative to push myself to ride really fast. You can do this on a TQ but you have to keep stopping to look at a map which really breaks the flow of riding. It's a skill of course to read maps quickly under pressure, but I always find that rather stressful.
People seem to want to put less in for more return. Working at your fun is seemed not to be fun.
If that were true no-one would do MTB marathons or 24 hour races - those are most definitely hard work.
It seems a lot of riders only go riding if:- They are following a trail center route.
- They are following a waymarked trail / mag route.
- They are being led round.
- They dont have to plan anything
The people who use to ride with maps in the rosy good old days still do. The people riding trail centres are IN ADDITION to those out on the hills I reckon. And more riders = good.
Both cp and Trimix missing the point by a country mile...
The OP asked why people don't do them, and you've both taken an arrogant, superior approach to explain that we are the ones at fault, that we're the crap ones who cant take responsibility or even read a map.
Yes, actually I can read a map, Yes actually, I've done orienteering events and done well in them in far more self reliant conditions than on a bike.
[i]It's exciting & fast - you don't know how many points someone else might accumulate[/i] Ooh, how exciting..
Sorry, it's dull and it's not racing as I would like to race.
It is a niche and I think you have to accept that. One of the largest niches in mtb riding is the 'sneer at other peoples' niches' so you are not going to convert the half inch between socks and shorts brigade.[ see what I did there eh?]
I enjoy them because I am a map anorak and frankly am a crap rider so doing any kind of straight race is very discouraging. Obviously I still am at the back in TQs but you don't get your nose rubbed in it quite as badly as you do ride round on your own a lot or with a team member. Yes more publicity would draw more like minded riders but you are never going to make it a mass MTB sport [if that isn't a contradiction in terms].
I see there's an event near me soon, may give it a crack.
Yeah, there are a lot of old fogeys there. Also a lot of people who are only out for a laugh. Which is fine, but it's hardly a race then is it?
Actually the best guys have always been pretty fast, and in fact on the odd occasions where top XC racers have had a go at these sorts of events they have generally been beaten - so although it isn't just about pure bike speed, winning does require a pretty well honed set of skills.
Also, the thing about TQ is that the top guys are competing in the same event as the have a go crowd. The criticism of it not being much of a competition would be akin to an XC race having everyone from the fun to the elite mixed up together and coming to the conclusion that most of the riders weren't much good. True enough, but the best TQ/Polaris riders have always been pretty fit and skilled.
BTW, better riders don't stop to look at the map.
Incidentally, there's a really good article about Polaris in the current issue of Privateer.
True, the fast guys are fast, but there's only a few of them 🙂 Not denying it's a special set of skills (see my post) but it's something that I find stress-inducing, not stress relieving like flat out racing.
BTW, better riders don't stop to look at the map [b]as often[/b]
You can't always read a map from a map-board ime.
I would really like to do one. But having to make (or buy) a map board does put me off a bit.
Map board is a bit of ply, 6 holes and 3 zip ties. At least to start you off - works fine.
But having to make (or buy) a map board does put me off a bit.
Doesn't take long or cost much.
50p for a cheapo plastic chopping board. A couple of quid for some bulldog clips. Punch a few holes through the board so you can zip tie it to the bars. Attach the map using the bulldog clips. Job done. Looks crap, but who cares?
Rightplacerighttime - I did the recent Trailtrax too - glad you enjoyed it! A well thought-out set of checkpoints that rewarded good planning.
I enjoy them because its not just one set of skills needed, its three - route planning, navigation on the fly, riding fast. Not everyone's cup of tea but then what event is?