Forum menu
Weirdly I thought of this thread yesterday. Driving in a van, nice high position. At the bottom of a hill I could see 4 cyclists (2 groups of 2). The rear group had rucksacks with the bright green covers, that was obscured, the darker coloured riders were silhouetted and very visible. Not sure of the distance away or relative position to the sun, but it wasn’t a dark day. The fluorescent colours were not visible until
I got closer. From a distance it was more merged with the bushes and the grass verge.
Today’s ride I had very bright colours on, front and rear day lights and I still had a knob in a car coming straight towards me on my side of the road.
when the sun gets low you often just can’t see cyclists until you’re almost top of them
At which point any driver with half a brain would slow down!
anagallis - the driver with half a brain will benefit from as much help as possible, maybe we should all just wear camouflage and leave it to the drivers to work it out
Harvey, weirdly I found the fluoro green and yellow like camo from a distance. Especially when the trees and bushes are currently green and yellow. The black was easier to spot due to the silhouette.
I was purposely driving cautiously as the hill I was going up is popular with roadies. I was also thinking of this thread and was surprised how difficult it was to see the fluoro colours.
I wear fluoro green overshoes, red gloves, have bright flashing lights, so I was honestly surprised that the darker riders I noticed while driving were easier to spot. May have been a freak of circumstance, don’t know.
when the sun gets low you often just can’t see cyclists until you’re almost top of them. y
the jersey doesn't help.
You want flashy lights for visibility in low light.
Given my experience as a driver and cyclist, I really don’t think that bright colours have no effect on visibility.
No but there are better solutions than placebos .
**** knows what's happened to the quote..
Not against wearing bright jerseys. Won't purposefully buy a black jersey but your kidding your self if you think it's more than a placebo in nearly all conditions.
when the sun gets low you often just can’t see cyclists until you’re almost top of them
Slow down then because people are going to struggle to buy clothes that are brighter than the actual sun!
we should all just wear camouflage and leave it to the drivers to work it out
Not at all. It just doesn't do what folk think it's doing.
No harm in doing it but sadly as I said earlier Al your doing is making your self prettier under a car wheel.
Not against wearing bright jerseys. Won’t purposefully buy a black jersey but your kidding your self if you think it’s more than a placebo in nearly all conditions.
Ah, so you think I'm saying that you're invulnerable in bright colours? Obviously not, that would be absurd. As I thought I'd made clear, it's a small thing that may help that one time, and is unlikely to be harmful.
I use a rear flasher on my helmet all the time, and a small front for much of the time.
I also don't wear black. Most tops are available in bright colours and they look no worse than any other top and don't cost more. So I don't see an issue.
This thread has made me re-think high viz though, even though I don't wear it anyway.
No but there are better solutions than placebos .
What are they?
It just doesn’t do what folk think it’s doing.
I think it is just making the cyclist more visible in certain settings and even if subconsciously the driver will be more aware that they be be catching up with a cyclist very soon.
You may think differently but that doesn't make you any more right than I am.
Based on that and the fact I can choose whatever colour I want then black/dark clothing is not on my list.
The amount of people who claim they can't see something / someone a few hundred yards in front of them while driving is actually pretty scary, I hope none of you drive in the SE london area. Maybe you all need eye tests or just drive a little slower you aint Hamilton and Freddie can be 5mins late for football. I wonder if its selective site or can not see anyone unless they are dressed like they are about to go to a rave via a shift at Heathrow
Mines purely functional:
All my riding gear is MTB biased.
Black gear doesn't get stained by sheep shite.
So my riding gear is mainly black.
But for commuting I use a fluorescent cover on my bag and I've got a bright orange waterproof top.
We’ve got anecdotes here saying hi-viz is camouflage in low sun and black works; we’ve got anecdotes of people being told that black is invisible in low sun and they’ve changed to bright colours. Much as with the rest of the thread: the anecdotes disagree, the less anecdotal evidence remains uncompelling either way; people are left with whatever opinion they choose in order to either think they’re safer (which is cool) or to beat others up with (which is not cool).
I think most of us do grasp the idea that being inconspicuous isn’t a great idea, it’s just that we have different experiences of what makes for conspicuity and what doesn’t. Additionally, many of us will, on any given ride, pass through urban and rural environments, towards and away from the sun, under tree cover and past hedgerows, at dusk and dawn and everything in between. And what works in one set of circumstances often doesn’t in all—and most of us don’t want to carry a change of clothes to swap every few miles.
Which is why (a) good lights make this conversation pretty redundant and (b) dissing others’ opinions—when if truth be told your own is just an opinion too—is a violation of Rule No. 1.
The “yeah but lots of people suck at driving” is logically sound but it’s victim blaming. If you’ve got energy to post it as a way of encouraging people to wear colours they don’t want to wear, consider storing that energy up and pointing it at discussions about sucky driving instead.
Slow down then because people are going to struggle to buy clothes that are brighter than the actual sun!
Well, quite.
I’ve written a pile of stuff about low sun, but I think one of the key points is that I think we need to leave more skips in the road.
https://twitter.com/beztweets/status/1068613137161703429?s=21
, I hope none of you drive in the SE london area. Maybe you all need eye tests
SE London is fine, its the North East or more specifically Barnard Castle you want to avoid!
I’ve written a pile of stuff about low sun, but I think one of the key points is that I think we need to leave more skips in the road.
If only the skip had a yellow jacket on...
Or a red jumper.
I love this sort of debate. Means nothing really, but lets everyone have a crack. Don't get me wrong cars are a menace to us too often, but wacking the keyboard ain't going to solve it.
For what it's worth I'd say take a look at cyclists, horse riders, walkers and runners when you are out. On a sheltered road, or as it gets late in the afternoon, it's easy to disappear into the walls or hedges whatever the clothes, even dayglo.
So do whatgever yoy think it takes to stay safe. Personally, I'm in the ninja camp, but with lights on at evan a hint of a dark cloud.
I wear a lot of black.
I have reflectors on my pedals and ankles. I have reflectors on my bag and jacket. I have reflective tape in strategic places on my bike. There are reflective strips on my tyres. I have a good front light and two good rear lights, one on the bike and one on my bag.
If anybody doesn't see me then they're not trying.
The amount of people who claim they can’t see something / someone a few hundred yards in front of them while driving is actually pretty scary,
Is anyone saying that? I am concerned about overs seeing me not whether I can see others.
Try putting yourself in the position of a driver who is in auto pilot, driving at 40+ on narrow B roads with blind bends which can be heavily shaded and doesn't expect to see a cyclist as he didn't see one yesterday.
That describes a lot of the riding I do where I live and do you really think in that scenario that dressing in all black is the best thing to do?
That describes a lot of the riding I do where I live and do you really think in that scenario that dressing in all black is the best thing to do?
A cyclist was blamed for their own death after a driver ran them over on a shaded road *BECAUSE* they were wearing high viz.
My waterproof is black but shoes are neon yellow. I also run with a rear light in daylight that has an flashing red/blue police effect which is efficient at catching the eye of drivers. I'm not actually sure of the legality of it but it works.
A cyclist was blamed for their own death after a driver ran them over on a shaded road *BECAUSE* they were wearing high viz.
The defence barister will say anythiny to shift blame to the cyclist - so if they'd worn black that would have been the cause. That's what they're paid to do, challenge the prosecution and test the case in any way possible.
A cyclist was blamed for their own death after a driver ran them over on a shaded road *BECAUSE* they were wearing high viz.
And you haven't worked out that is rubbish and classic victim blaming going on?
What makes you think that I subscribe to the victim blaming viewpoint?
rubbish and classic victim blaming
Sounds a bit like some of the sentiments on this thread 🙂
There seems to been a rather black and white mindset about this it seems (pun intended).
It's as if you can't even suggest the idea of all-black bike clothing is a poor choice, without being told you're a victim blaming, bad driving apologist...
And I don't think that's actually what the majority are really doing, they're simply recognising a minority of cyclists making a personal choice that cuts against what many simply see as "common sense" and questioning the logic...
Whether you believe it makes you more visible or not is almost irrelevant, a dash of colour simply heads off that "victim blame" that inevitably comes (from whatever group) with dressing in a completely black outfit, much less doing so in combination with no/minimal lighting.
And you're at least hedging your bets by dressing a bit more "conspicuously"...
Seriously, without resorting to calling me a "victim blamer" yet again, explain why cycling in some contrasting colours is a worse choice for anyone...
Cookeaa, according to my wife we can’t co-ordinate our colours correctly and should stick to black. Gloves, glasses, shoes/overshoes need to match.
I had yellow jersey, green overshoes and pinky red gloves on. Wasn’t a good look according to the wife!
What amazes me is how much people gaf about what others wear or there reasons for wearing it. I’m sure most on here have been around long enough to know we can all find a report saying x colour is better, y colour is safer etc.
Interestingly, or maybe not, motorbike gear is predominantly black as well. Wonder if on motorbikingtrackworld there is a discussion about why they wear black and not brighter colours.
My, the troll has reached 6 pages.
I've been knocked off a motorbike before, it had an insanely bright headlight and a noisy exhaust. I had a day glow orange helmet and a high vis vest over my jacket. The driver didn't see me apparently.
Based on this, you could wear every bright and contrasting colour under the sun and some car drivers still wont look out for you or see you.
It’s as if you can’t even suggest the idea of all-black bike clothing is a poor choice, without being told you’re a victim blaming, bad driving apologist…
A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this. What is being questioned is the religious fixation on hi vis as a cure for all ills.
Hi vis has an advantage in well lit conditions but loses ground as it gets duller. So the scenario of it being useful in rapidly changing between light and shade is dubious unless the sightlines are long.
Reflective has the advantage when someone is shining something bright at you. So mostly at night.
If you want to protect yourself decent lights should be the first and foremost option.
What is being questioned is the religious fixation on hi vis as a cure for all ills.
A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this.
A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this.
Probably needs more than a cursory look then.
Not really. People are just suggesting brighter colours rather than black and not necessarily hi-viz, although again where I ride the cyclists that stand out by far the most (from a distance) are those in bright yellow or orange jackets and they can be seen more easily than a rear bike light (in daytime) due to the large surface area of a jersey compared to a tiny light.
Cookeaa, according to my wife we can’t co-ordinate our colours correctly and should stick to black. Gloves, glasses, shoes/overshoes need to match.
This might be a fair point, I went out yesterday with White overshoes and Arm warmers, Orange helmet and gloves, Blue Jersey/Gilet and black bibs, it was sort of coordinated, my missus did describe it as "a busy look"…
But I was certainly as noticeable as I really could be...
We’ve evolved sight to see a threat & to find food. To the average driver, unless you look like a McD or are a perceived threat they won’t see you. So dress as a Lion or a burger.
For those that are looking at relying on the 100% attention of the motorists, you'll never get that. I work in safety critical engineering and human factors are massive source of failure, people are really good when they're really good but all humans are liable to lapses. No matter what incentives or threats are provided you can't make a 100% reliable human machine, therefore using lights, Viz, reflectives, colours WILL be effective for a proportion of the times that the motorists attention is suboptimal. Which combination of lights, Viz, reflectives, colours are more effective in different conditions is another argument and yes for a proportion of the times the motorists attention is suboptimal it won't matter what you wear. But what is clear is that drivers WILL make mistakes and not improving your visibility WILL increase the proportion of those mistakes they can't mitigate because they are less likely to see you.
I reckons anyways.
So dress as a Lion or a burger.
Carry a handgun? The imminent threat of death or serious injury whilst in your rot-box would sharpen the inattentive.
Writing words in capitals DOESNT MAKE THEM FACT just because you want them to be
but it makes them a #JAMBAFACT though
When you're me IT DOES
explain why cycling in some contrasting colours is a worse choice for anyone
Why?
Do you need to explain why wearing bright colours when you walk isn't a worse choice? Why buying a bright yellow car isn't a worse choice? Why cycling with two rear lights instead of one isn't a worse choice? Why three isn't a worse choice than four?
Do you always wear bright clothes when you go to the pub? (Ah, back in the day, eh…) Do you always buy brightly-coloured cars? Do you always cycle with as many lights as you can possibly fit to a bicycle? If not, explain why those things would be worse choices.
Why is the onus on people to explain why they choose not to do that extra little bit when there's always an extra little bit? It's the same logic that gets us to the "if it saves one life…" argument, and it's always pivoted firmly around the one-lifer's personal choice.
Do you need to explain why wearing bright colours when you walk isn’t a worse choice?
All depends if I think I need to be seen and what the danger is if I am not seen.
I don't need to be seen going to the pub or walking a long a pavement as there is very little risk of being hit by say a car that could cause a lot of damage to me.
Car colour has also been proven to increase or decrease likelihood of collision but again what is the danger if someone drives into my black car where they may have not driven into my yellow car, much lower than being driven into as a cyclist.
I don't care what colour anybody wears and if you think car drivers can see you clearly when you are dressed in black then good for you.
Why is the onus on people to explain why they choose not to do that extra little bit...
Probably because the context is a thread entitled “ Why do so many cyclists on the road wear BLACK”. It’s is the very point of the thread!
.
Most of my kit is black for some reason, black is the new black! 😉
March last year I got T-boned on a small roundabout by a lady who did not see me??? I was wearing a bright coloured top, flashing lights etc...
She didn't see me at all, so she didn't slow down or give way, but she did see the judge and she was prosecuted, none of it matters if they don't see you, they don't see you...
Writing words in capitals DOESNT MAKE THEM FACT just because you want them to be
According to other social media it does. 🙂