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Was the shop wearing a helmet? If not, I hope the insurance payout is suitably reduced.
I am an observant driver and cyclists dressed in black can pretty much not be seen from 200 metres whereas a bright coloured cyclist can be seen easily and is hard to not spot.
lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?
lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?
Car Lights are broken ? It's not an issue I have but then I live on one of the few main cycling exits from the city and so see alot of cyclists -and see alsorts. It's also a main road heading west so low winter sun I see.
I'd much rather someone had working lights than wore red/high Viz. They bring something to the party 100% of the time. Even in low sun.
I generally wear black or dark clothes on the commuter bike combined with powerful lights front\rear during day or night cycling. In really crappy weather I'll add a reflective gilet or bag.
I've done the whole bright colour thing and found that drivers pay less heed and are more likely to pull out in front of me when I'm in bright colours than when in dark colours, combined with bright lights. Not sure why, personal theory is that when driving (myself included) you sub consciously evaluate other traffic on a "threat" basis rather than just what is more visible. A cyclist in bright clothing is a sensible person therefore less of a physical threat.
lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?
It's displayed in black?
Fundamentally I think this all boils down to the fact that we’ve been socially conditioned to drive our cars faster than our cognitive capacity really supports, and deep down we know it, which is why we constantly look for ways to offload the blame onto someone else when we drive into them.
Nail on the head. And the problem is, the "general public" a very happy to shift the responsibility away from them. "You weren't wearing hi-viz, not my fault".
I'm happy to add my voice demanding a change in attitude from drivers who don't give a shit, or are ignorant, unskilled, and complacent. That, after all, is the primary problem, and the primary cause of death and injury on our roads.
At the same time, cyclists can take personal decisions about how they mitigate the risks from other humans with bad skills and attitudes. I wish I could be as relaxed about the deficiencies of the average motorist as some of the other cyclists I see, must be nice. But I guess that's why I favour off-road riding.
lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?
It was my sentence so you will need explain the problem with it please.
What I am saying is that I can see the cyclist in all black on a shaded B road but I am looking hard and can only just see them from a distance
A cyclist in a bright colour stands out and I can see them very easily without having to look very hard.
Making yourself harder to see is not that great an idea in my view.
Making yourself harder to see is not that great an idea in my view.
+1
It's a choice. Personally I avoid dressing like tarmac when I go out riding esp on national speedlimit roads / lanes in winter.
It was my sentence so you will need explain the problem with it please.
I think its that you called your self an observant drive but can't really see something 200m away. Its a bit ironic.
It's a driech Aberdeen day today.
I was driving along South deeside (shaded by trees so very grey ) on my way to the merchants to get some.materials.
I met two cyclists coming towards me . Visible from a long long way away. I have no idea what they were wearing. Their lights made them visible in the conditions not their clothes.
Their lights made them visible in the conditions not their clothes.
Should cylists use day running lights?
I don't bother on my commuter, but always use them on my road bikes, costs nothing to use them.
In the hierarchy of safety PPE is the last measure.
I wear black or dark clothes as that's what I like.
I don't ride in positions that leave me vulnerable.
I would rather be alive than "right".
The motto of assuming everyone is an idiot and going to pull out on you makes life easier.
I calculate risk constantly, I will ride in the middle of the lane through road works or past a bit of crap road that I know is coming up.
I ride in Essex on rural and city streets as well as in London through some very busy locations.
Hi-vis won't make a blind bit of difference if you snake down the inside of a driver following sat nav.
I think its that you called your self an observant drive but can’t really see something 200m away. Its a bit ironic.
I see the confusion. Being able to see something and being observant are not the same thing.
Observant means I am actively looking ahead (rather than day dreaming or staring at my phone)
The ability to see an object from a distance based on colour of that object is a different thing all together no matter how observantly I am driving.
I see the confusion.
What confuses me is despite all the threads about speed awareness courses and points, apparently all STW drivers are above average and perfect in every way.....
Should cylists use day running lights?
I'd rather see that mandatory than the clothes I wear being mandated.
Given DRLs are part of new cars.
I habitually turn on the lights in all my old cars as it's so ubiquitous now that a car with no lights could easily be mistaken for parked at a glance.
What I am saying is that I can see the cyclist in all black on a shaded B road but I am looking hard and can only just see them from a distance
A cyclist in a bright colour stands out and I can see them very easily without having to look very hard.
See, to me that just says, “when I drive, I don’t want to feel obliged to look very hard.”
Which is true of all of us, don’t get me wrong. It’s a human trait. But again it’s right at the heart of the issue, and most people are in denial about it. Behavioural safety can’t really improve without acknowledging psychological/cognitive traits like this.
There is a spectrum of dangerous driver running all the way from 'don't give a shit if you live or die' to 'really don't want to hurt anyone but ignorant/incompetent/complacent'.
Ideally, you'd manage to break into the bubble of people who can't see why concentrating at the wheel is a good plan. But you won't in many cases, because they're also not concentrating on public safety messages, and, as posted, they are in denial.
A big flashing light, good positioning and bright clothing is a poor substitute, but it's the only other thing we've got.
footflaps.. "dressing like tarmac" Brilliant, I'm using that line.
See, to me that just says, “when I drive, I don’t want to feel obliged to look very hard.”
Unfortunately, that does seem to be the attitude of a range of drivers, and for the moment at least we’re stuck with it.
Given that, would you choose to be the cyclist who was spotted early or the cyclist who was not?
Given that, would you choose to be the cyclist who was spotted early or the cyclist who was not?
In line with the “not wanting to look hard” trait, I gave it some consideration, set my bikes up with dynamo lights, and then never bother thinking much about what I wear, because I’m always illuminated.
But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to argue against the filthy tide of “I can’t see you easily enough and I don’t want to slow down, so wear something lurid for me”.
As I entered the village on my return there was a woman at the other end.
I clocked her flashing light.
As the light dipped behind a parked car she went back to being almost invisible- how ever as I had clocked her highly visible light from significant distance I knew she was there already and was able to make out her shape above the car.
When we were along side it became apparent that she was in a high Viz gilet. It did not help her be seen at all. We actually had to be fairly close before the colour could be determined even with her light Hiden behind the cars.
set my bikes up with dynamo lights, and then never bother thinking much about what I wear, because I’m always illuminated.
That's where I live these days. Both my utility bikes have dynamo lighting....it's so cheap to do these days can get a Shimano Dyno Hub for 20 quid and an svtzo lightest for 25. And it just works.
I am guilty of this. Most of the stuff I wear has some small reflective detail on it, but it's predominantly black. I've been conscious of how dangerous it is, but not got round to doing anything about it. This thread has prompted me to give it some thought, though, so now looking around for a hi-viz gilet or similar, if anyone has a recommendation? Been looking at the Endura Hummvee - https://www.endurasport.com/Hummvee-Gilet/p/E9134-Hi-Viz-Yellow
but not got round to doing anything about it.
I'd say Day running lights (eg 200 lumen flashing LEDs) are the best first move. Then brighter clothing....
We actually had to be fairly close before the colour could be determined even with her light Hiden behind the cars.
Its why I like to use helmet mounted lights as well. Meets my "one is none, two is one" approach, gives a multiple angles and I think in some cases it makes drivers more wary than they would be with just a handlebar light since they cant quite be sure what it is coming the other way (handy on backroads sometimes).
Helmet lights are also handy for junctions and cars coming in from the side since can direct the light as needed.
Coloured clothing not so much although when I did commute I was a fan of reflective clothing.
In the hierarchy of safety PPE is the last measure.
I don’t ride in positions that leave me vulnerable.
I would rather be alive than “right”.
The motto of assuming everyone is an idiot and going to pull out on you makes life easier.
I calculate risk constantly, I will ride in the middle of the lane through road works or past a bit of crap road that I know is coming up.
Hi-vis won’t make a blind bit of difference if you snake down the inside of a driver following sat nav.
This.
Again, all depends where you ride. Coloured clothing in an urban setting with a background of various colours is not so effective as a very bright jersey or jacket in a shaded b road where the background is dark.
A rear light would do it but why bother if the top half of my body is in a colour that can be seen from a good distance.
Because bright clothing is a poor substitute for proper lights.
In a nice bit of "whataboutery" last night when heading home down the A65 I was approaching Ingleton and only just spotted a couple of pedestrians crossing the road in front of me.
The only, and I mean only, thing I saw was the reflection of my headlights from a watch one of them was wearing. I wondered what it was for a moment as the movement didn't make sense as it arced then disappeared behind their torso then reappeared. I was within twenty metres before I saw any form of their figures, way too late to take avoiding action - there was no approaching traffic so no silhouettes - not only dark clothing but dull, wool jumpers or fleece, as well. I didn't have full beam on as there was a car about 300m ahead.
Sort of bothers me, and I try to avoid full black.
It shouldn't matter, but we get hurt more.
Seeing a few getting caught out at the moment, dark creeping in and misty wet cloudy evenings that sort of thing.
Strangely I don't feel much safer in fluro. So always go for my club kit which stands out against the mundane. Just bought a gold'ish colour jersey for this weather.
Sounds really crazy, but I think looking slick and tidy gets you noticed !
it’s so ubiquitous now that a car with no lights could easily be mistaken for parked at a glance.
Really? Only by someone who really shouldn't be driving at all.
When we were along side it became apparent that she was in a high Viz gilet. It did not help her be seen at all. We actually had to be fairly close before the colour could be determined even with her light Hiden behind the cars.
Hmm. So that shows that high viz isn't guaranteed to make you stand out - which is reasonable. However it doesn't show that bright clothing has no value at all.
It's all about reducing probability. I think there's a chance that in some situations wearing a red top might make me more likely to be seen than a black one, so I buy a red one. It's really not a big sacrifice. I don't wear fluoro high vis because I really don't like it; but red, yellow, orange or bright blue are fine and there's plenty of choice in bright colours.
Really? Only by someone who really shouldn’t be driving at all.
Such as a large % of the driving public
think there’s a chance that in some situations wearing a red top might make me more likely to be seen than a black one,
If it's probability your after you probably want to try a dress,skirt or wig You'll get more room than any colour of clothing.
It appears that car drivers are stil discriminatory against who they hit.
If it’s probability your after you probably want to try a dress,skirt or wig
Anecdote sample size of one shows that's correct. I was close passed while in full lycra, the woman on the sit up and beg bike with hair flowing and skirt on the same driver put the vehicle fully in the opposite lane. (No oncoming traffic for either pass).
Close passing has nothing to do with the driver not being able to see you. They are still passing you but just not giving you as much room but they have seen you.
I find that doing a quick dart left and right when hearing a car behind tends to do the trick for stopping close passes.
If it’s probability your after you probably want to try a dress,skirt or wig You’ll get more room than any colour of clothing.
Yes, but those things inhibit riding more than simply choosing a different colour before you click 'add to basket'.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/road.cc/content/news/252652-study-still-indicates-drivers-give-cyclists-wearing-helmets-less-room-when%3fampIf you read the article that you'll see that Walker did a second study after the wig one & found there was no difference in passing distance according to clothing (including helmets). As much as I like the idea behind his experiment, the fact remains it is based on the experience of one rider in each case.
I don't really believe in either article I've linked.
It was more to show that people have tried to link ideas they believe in to actual data and failed.
simply choosing a different colour before you click ‘add to basket’.
If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
It'll just mean you are prettier pavement pizza when your time is up.
I find that doing a quick dart left and right when hearing a car behind tends to do the trick for stopping close passes.
This... I have a little "wobble" when I hear a car coming up. They might think "what an idiot he can't ride straight c, but it does tend to either make them slow down and/or give you a bit more room.
I have a bright steady light and a flashing one, both front and rear. Got moaned at by another guy on a bike that my front light was too flashy /blinding him. Good, I thought.
GF has a jacket we found in a Nike outlet place. It's reflective on the back and you can see it from a long way. Obviously this is only of benefit when being seen from behind.
I purposely bought pedals that have reflectors on them.
And despite living in Germany with all the cycle paths I often feel safer when riding on the road instead of in the parallel cycle paths. On the paths when approaching a junction you're obscured by parked cars and trees until you're on top of the junction, having to slow down as you yourself don't have a clear view and drivers have less time to see you.
Interestingly, whilst out on the road bike this afternoon I turned a corner and looked up the road into the low sun and could see something black moving quite a distance up the road. As I got closer it was two ladies on horses, both wearing yellow high viz, the horse at the front was black and white. The high viz was invisible!!
Yeah high viz is quite a light colour so it won't stand out against a bright sky.
Good job my winter road top is both red AND black 🙂
If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Not really no.
It’ll just mean you are prettier pavement pizza when your time is up.
Given my experience as a driver and cyclist, I really don't think that bright colours have no effect on visibility.
I bet the MoD could save money on camo by just letting everyone wear whatever they want though. That's not a bad idea. I guess the lessons of the Boer War where they stopped wearing red uniforms were misleading, after all this time.
And despite living in Germany with all the cycle paths I often feel safer when riding on the road instead of in the parallel cycle paths.
Glad it's not just me that thought that. The cycle paths I went on put me right next to the hedges and walls so I was in prime position to get taken out by an emerging car.
wearing dark jerseys when road biking, especially in the winter is nuts! when the sun gets low you often just can't see cyclists until you're almost top of them. years ago a car driving pal pulled up in front of me and said, 'you realise I didn't see you", I had a lovely black gore jacket, now only used on the mountain bike.
Especially with a low sun and wet conditions drivers can often miss cyclists particularly near the hedge on country roads. I always wear fluro colours on the road with a decent flashing LED, incidentally a lot of LED lights have a poor strength and many riders are wearing dark gear under the misapprehension that they are clearly visible with the LED.
There not much point arguing that the driver should be paying more attention when you are dressed in black, lying under the wheel of his car,