[Closed] Why do all the mags rate Fox forks?

No (suspension) forks are fit and forget, but doing that every 15hrs sounds like a right PITA.

They'll be of no use to 24hr soloists then...

Why do all the mags rate Fox forks

Because RS have been great for a while so it's Fox's turn ? Or is that a bit cynical ?

It seems a shame that they just cant improve the manufacturing process to the same level of the competition. While I personally have never had a problem with my old vanillas (03/04?) Ive seen enough worn stancions on some of the air forks.

I think it's disingenuous to push the problem into the area of maintenance which at the same time pushes the problem outside of warranty cover which when coupled with their premium price is a double whammy. However, as long as the brand has sufficient cache to comand the price despite the above then that is how they will probably continue, afterall UK is hardly the biggest market in the world.

One day PACE will make a freeride DH fork and we can all be happy. I'd kill for a PACE built Totem-esque fork.

Marzocchi, RockShox and Manitou all seem to manage without fettling every 15 hours and without losing the ano from the stanchions. Fox service requirements are a joke.

what johnners said, service every 15hrs to prevent ruining your forks? thats gotta be joke hasn't it? yes clean/oil them but stripping them down?!? get a grip Fox!

and yes, if Pace made a 170-180mm fork I'd be in that queue!!

The problem with fox is they don't use a proper oil seal to keep the lubricant in. This helps reduce stiction but means they can't keep the dirt/oil separate.

heh heh

I wonder how long until we see fox riders breaking out the gators again? 😆

Both my Foxes, Vanilla and Float wore through the stancion anodising within 9 months. Marzochhi seem to go on forever with no maintainance, although it is a less sophisticated fork which ain't quite so plush - but i know which i'd rather have!

One day PACE will make a freeride DH fork and we can all be happy. I'd kill for a PACE built Totem-esque fork.

and yes, if Pace made a 170-180mm fork I'd be in that queue!!

Didn't think Pace made forks anymore- and I don't think that their reliability was being praised to the heavens when they did.

If there was a significant advantage to running Fox forks that compensated for the extra cost and TLC required, I'd spend out and use Fox forks but I can't see that there is so I use RS forks.

I got some Fox forks cheap from the states a few years ago. I sold them within three months because I was paranoid about the servicing requirements. I've mostly been on Marzocchis ever since - easy riding assured.

Is the UK really the harshest riding conditions in the world? maybe maybe not. I never had any problems with fox forks in the past although Ive been running some revs for the last 18 months which are excellent.

The answer to your question is because Fox buy so much advertising space. The mags aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

probably because they are the plushest fork on the market, and everywhere outside the UK they last forever.

Remember Fox fork are produced in california and most of the production is sold in california too. Why should they spend money for UK market when from a commercial point of view it's not worth it.

RS are a definite no no to me as I have seen far too many psylo dying after a week of use and I have tryed a commencal meta6 a month ago which 6 month old RS add more wobble then anything else.

New zocchi have been crap too. The AM SL on my hoss never worked well. And the new one need taking appart to have the lubrification oil removed before even being used.

So there is no such thing as "perfect fork".

Maybe I've been lucky, but my Van 36s have been good so far after a year of riding in wet and gritty Calderdale. I've paid my LBS about £30 to have two micro services (cleaning the seals and re-lubing). Yes, there are a couple of very faint marks on the stsnchions, but certainly no problem so far, and the forks feel absolutely amazing. Marzocchi have lost it right now in terms of quality control, Totems seem to be ok but they're too big for my hardtail and super expensive. As for Pace - I wouldn't have a Pace fork if it was free, going on stuff I've heard about their reliability. One explanation is that the bigger forks (36s) suffer far less flex, and therefore less stanchion abrasion caused by flex.

probably because they are the plushest fork on the market,

perhaps in advertising spend eh Foxy?

07 Fox 36 Floats here with zero love and lots of miles. No wear, super plush, stiff blah, blah, blah...

Must admit I have never seen a problem and i am damn sure that veryone I know rides the things. Can't see how they are better or worse than anything else although obviosly things like Lyriks were doddgy in some forms.

probably because they are the plushest fork on the market,

Well, having now got both RS and Fox coil forks in the garage I can tell you without any doubt that there's bugger all difference. Nil. Nada. Nowt. Diddly-squat.

The only thing that, IMO, Fox do better than RS is to provide preload adjustment. I'm sort of 'between springs' on RS Forks, and preload would sort most of that out.
In use my 140mm Vanillas and 140mm Pikes are virtually indestinguishable apart from the extra stifness of the Maxle equipped RS....

I only paid £147 for the Vans, brand new, so I'm not to fussed if they don't last but I've had them on since June and not touched them yet.....

Maybe I should?
🙂

I cant understand you guys...You pay £600 for a set of forks and 10mins service every 15 hours riding is not alot of effort!
And RS forks should have the same love!
Guess thats the price you pay over marzocchi for light weight.

I've had my Float 32's for a year, no problems, no wear, just changed the lowers to QR15 and when I drained the oil it looked fine for a years worth of wet riding in the glorious British sunshine 😉

QR15 certainly adds some stiffness without much weight, loving it.

Ive run 32 and 36 Talas forks and have not had any problems at all yet!

I clean them after every ride and service them every couple of months. It's a simple case of what you put in you get out. All parts wear out, how quickly is down to the TLC!

Quality of materials and design obviously do play a part though!

Juan

I use fox forks 36's on my hire bikes (only because they come with them)

And on 2 of them the stanchions are worn....is it because it was too dusty?

and 10mins service every 15 hours riding is not alot of effort!

I think that's the whole point of the OP
It's NOT just 10 mins.
Maybe a Fox pro can do it in 10, but it's virtually a complete strip and clean which will take the rest of us an hour, if we're lucky, and have the right tools.....and oil.....

And RS & Marzocchi forks don't need it at all, yet they are significant;y cheaper....
🙂

I spoke to some Fox people on their stand at the Crankworks a few years ago. As soon as they realised I came from England they just said "Oh you have that strange mud that wear things out"

Well, having now got both RS and Fox coil forks in the garage I can tell you without any doubt that there's bugger all difference. Nil. Nada. Nowt. Diddly-squat.

Not when you are barely 61 kg...

Nasher; alain & françois have no problem with vanilla and float at all...

Juan, it's a metal spring, some oil and a few seals inside both forks and very similar construction otherwise too. There's not a lot you can actually do to make any difference with something so simple.
🙂

Juan, more pies! now!

But I like my Foxes for the reasons I've already stated - The spring rate just suits me better, basically.

If I was buying coil forks again, I'd probably have another pair of Vanillas. If it was air I was after, then RS.

And you KNOW your comments about rubbishy Dukes and Psylos are well past their sell-by date now, you've been told enough times! 🙂

Similarly, the Fox thing with the worn stanchions seems to be less common than it was a couple of years ago. I really reckon the only real differences between Fox and RS are just down to personal preference by now.
😀

PeterPoddy,
Ok 10 mins is optimistic...I can do it in about 15-20mins (and im no pro mechanic) but maybe thats because i do it often enought...no special tools needed 😉
Marzocchi you dont need to because they're open bath. RS are essenially the same as fox but with an oil seal instead of a foam ring. RS and Fox forks both use very little oil in the lowers (hence the light weight) but because of this they need more servicing.
You you makes your choice, you pays your money!

One day PACE will make a freeride DH fork and we can all be happy. I'd kill for a PACE built Totem-esque fork.

and yes, if Pace made a 170-180mm fork I'd be in that queue!!

Didn't think Pace made forks anymore- and I don't think that their reliability was being praised to the heavens when they did.

Many moons ago, Pace made the DH specific RC 150 Monster fork.
It was shit, you would spend more time servicing it than riding on it.

I used to work at a Pace status one dealer. We used to call Pace forks "homing forks" as we were always sending forks back to Pace for problems that Pace had, apparently, never encountered before, even though we were constantly sending forks back every week with the same issues!

Ok 10 mins is optimistic...I can do it in about 15-20mins (and im no pro mechanic) but maybe thats because i do it often enought...no special tools needed

There's plenty of people who can't even fit new brake pads though, and don't own any tools. For them it's virtually impossible. And how long did it take you to do it first time?
🙂

BTW, You're talking to someone who can completely strip and service RS forks and Fox shocks here, and has a chest-high roller cabinet full of tools....
😉

There's plenty of people who can't even fit new brake pads though, and don't own any tools. For them it's virtually impossible. And how long did it take you to do it first time?

Thats a fair point. It prob took me a good hour or so. But i quite like faffing about with the bike so the time didnt really bother me...

ever ride i have to read the magura manual just to make sure ive read it correctly and i realy dont have to top up the oil in the lowers.

No idea how a semi-bath fork can go an whole year withour an oil top up, but not encountered undue stiction yet.

Manitou used to recomend 8 hours IIRC? Never had any wear issues, but the forks were rubbish so the stanchions probably weren't moving fast enough to wear out.

got 3 foxs,the most wk done is seals&oil on 1

Im with Ed-O fox 07 float 36 14 months no service no problems

Its quite reasonable to assume UK conditions to be some of the worst suspension can experience. After all most of bike all year regardless of weather and ground conditions right??

For all but the technically inept, i would have thought taking a couple of nuts off the fork lowers, taking them off and wiping down the seals is manageable!

You certainly don't have to change the oil EVERY time! Thats bull! I just rebuilt my 32 Vanilla R forks with the new 15QR lowers. It was easy. However, the stanchions were beyond saving. These were second hand and therefore had unknown history regarding maintenance. So new lowers and new upper leg assemblies and some oil for less than £300, thats not bad.

I check the seals every 15 hrs of riding and thats it. Yes need cleaning but guess what so does the rest of the bike. This isn't California (wish it was though).

i've got a second hand '04 talas off here that i've been riding for a year and the stanchions are still perfect. one thing i try and do regularly (apart from keep them clean of course) is squirt some teflon dry lube on the seals and pump the fork a few times to lift the dirt out the seals. If you do this after every ride i can't see the need for a regular strip and re-lube.

The other thing Fox recommend is to occasionly store the bike upside down in order to allow the oil to run down to the foam rings below the main seals.

This keeps them saturated in oil and further prevents dust etc getting past and wearing out the stanchions.

BTW - those that claim theyve been "running their fox forks for x months with no service and no problems", you're kidding yourselves! All that time the annodizing has been abraiding - it wont be noticeable since you'll still be showing coloured ano/nitride whatever, but soon enough it will go through and you will have the tell-tale silver streaks on the stancions.

soon enough it will go through and you will have the tell-tale silver streaks on the stancions.

erm i think that stanchion wear happens to all forks. RS have silver stanchions anyway so you still get the same wear but you just don't notice it happening.

There used to be fit and forget forks! I have a pair of RST Mozo Pro's with protective gaiters sealing out all the abrasive rubbish one picks up on any off road ride. The alloy stanchions are mint and these forks have never let me down since I bought them in 1999! I fitted them to an old frame last year and bought Rocksox Revelation 426 Dual Air U-Turns as an upgrade to a really solid frame - an old friend. Well, you guessed it, the new high tech, gaiterless forks have developed a fault with light use in dryish conditions and with meticulous care. Meanwhile the Mozo Pro's endured their eighth Chamonix Alpine downhill holiday without even the slightest glitch. I did meet a guy cursing in a cable car because his £1000 fork's air seals had gone!

I swear I never touched these forks for any maintenance up until last year and that was only because I wanted to spray the lowers black to match the old frame which I had acquired. The only thing I have done was to run a drop of oil on the stanchions now and again.

I was assured that the Rockshox were much more reliable than other makes including FOX's, but this was just bike journalist's tosh! Just like the articles I read about disc brakes. They quoted in big letters "fit and forget". Just tosh! I have spent a fortune on three sets of hydraulic brake systems and had issues with upteen rotors. Pads don't last long either and cost £30 a time. Not cheap and certainly not fit and forget!

High tech. bike gear usually equals high tech. headaches. If you are at the leading edge of the sport with sponsors, any weight saving advantage is worth the extra money. Money is no object.

When I first saw forks without gaiters I wondered how long the seals would survive. I think gaiters disappeared for three reasons, 1) cost 2) they don't look good 3) to increase the volume of sales.

Do we really need air springs when the bullet proof and cheaper alternative of a suitably stiff spring and elastomer will suffice?

Grrr! :lol:lol. Message to the industry: Remember the old acronym: KISS (Keep it simple stupid!)

here's the solution to keep your fox forks in fully working order without resorting to 15 hour services :

ride hard.
do not jet wash your bike(s).
clean fork seals after every ride.
clean stanchions after every ride.
store upside down permanently.
ride hard.

repeat........ to no stanchion fade.

RST Mozo Pros may have lasted a while, but they are shite as a form of suspension. May as well use a rigid fork for all the suspension and damping quality you get from them. And, believe it or not, hydro brakes are indeed fit and forget items for most people. Maybe you're just unlucky?

[i]When I first saw forks without gaiters I wondered how long the seals would survive. I think gaiters disappeared for three reasons, 1) cost 2) they don't look good 3) to increase the volume of sales.[/i]

I thought gaiters went because they didn't stop the mud/dirt getting in and, in fact, caused mud and dirt to accumlate around the stanctions.

im not a fan of fox forks but has anyone got link to back up this bull.
im sure lifting the seals & lubing the sponge is around 15 hrs but i doubt your comments about the oil change every 15 hours.

Fox advertise their forks in bike magazines, a fair bit as well. Would you write negative reviews on Fox forks when they give you current and future money? Great to be impartial but not at the expense of your journo-job.

i thought gaiters didn't work well on long forks. the longer the gaiter the more space it needs when compressed. when fox forks are compressed theres only a few mm between the lowers and the crown. i guess the lowers are made as tall as possible to keep the fork stiff.

I've never been keen on fox. My stanchions started to wear too.

They still worked fine, and i didn't service them either, but the consequence is when they *do* need a service they need new crown/stanchions too = 200 quid. a bit much when rockshox revelations are 260 or whatever. (probably more now)

as i said - clean seal and stanchion, store upside down, relax.

I've had a set of Fox F100rl's for the last two years ridden them regularly, raced on them and never felt the need to service them! I just keep them clean and spray GT85 on the sliders. After reading this I guess I'd better look at giving them a service....whoops!

Quote "nickc - Member - RST Mozo Pros may have lasted a while, but they are shite as a form of suspension. May as well use a rigid fork for all the suspension and damping quality you get from them. And, believe it or not, hydro brakes are indeed fit and forget items for most people. Maybe you're just unlucky?

Obviously never ridden these forks. They are far from what he describes as "shite". Not as tunable as modern forks, but very plush. My only criticism is that they could do with being stiffer.

I only know two people with disc brakes that have had a fit an forget experience. They are infrequent riders. For a casual ride round the woods, you may have no significant problems other than incessant squealing, but when you use them on any significant descent, that is the time that they flake on you.

Dirt in seals, abrasion - subsequent corrosion, add heat from long periods of braking and you are leaking fluid onto and ruining your expensive pads. Just what you need on a weekend away in the Welsh mountains!

Or overheating rotors, pump up on closed systems - was later informed that these were the wrong system for big decents. So bought open type: total loss of brake action when you let the lever out on a long alpine decent. No brakes when you are on a steep down hill section is very scary!

As I started using hydraulic brakes 10 years ago (Hope C2), i guess was the guinea pig. Disc brakes were very scarce then. The claim that they are fit and forget is so far from the truth.

Regards the other comment I read claiming that gaiters trapped mud is odd. If you make sure you haven't knowcked them off the crown or the lowers they maintain a perfect seal. Sheesh, some people really have no engineerin g brain!

Why do magazines rate Fox? It's not total paranoia to suggest that money from advertising is a factor. There's the fact that journos dont need to pay for the forks, the fact that they get a new fork each year, the fact that fox dont have the same bedding in period as say mazzies, so a test bike with fox will initially seem plusher.

As for the uk having the toughest riding conditions, that's utter balls. There are plenty of places where people ride all year round and where mud is a factor, also the actual "abuse" bikes are subjected to in the british isles is pretty mild compared to other territories.

a longshot, could this be linked to the Pinder case? Not directly but a thinking/a way of putting future inspection/onus on the mechanical working onto the user/customer? Therefore easy to defend against neglicence?

Just a thought.........Customer hadnt followed maintenance instructions as per manufacturers guildelines hence customers fault...etc..

The only problem with storing your bike upside down is that (Apart from not always being practical) it can turn your brakes intoa spongy mess that need bleeding before every ride....

PP elastic bands holding on the brakes then?

sod maintenance, i just ride em till they don't worklike they used to and them get em serviced

[i]Regards the other comment I read claiming that gaiters trapped mud is odd. If you make sure you haven't knowcked them off the crown or the lowers they maintain a perfect seal. Sheesh, some people really have no engineerin g brain! [/i]

Well if they're so good why don't they get used on any of the leading brands of forks? If they was an engineering advantage to using them none of your reasons...1) cost 2) they don't look good 3) to increase the volume of sales...would be relevant. Maybe all those people at Fox, RS, Marz etc just don't have an engineering brain.

you can still get boots for rear shocks i seem to recall. fact of the matter is nukeproof, that fork boots look sh*t. nobody will use them because they're not fashionable. it's that simple.

yep they look silly, but that comes from an idiot with a bit of old car innertube tie wrapped to his forks 😛

[i]fact of the matter is nukeproof, that fork boots look sh*t. nobody will use them because they're not fashionable. it's that simple. [/i]

Not disagreeing they look shit but if we're talking about what looks shit when mountain biking where do you start...helmets, full suspension frames, mud guards. Fact is that if something serves its purpose, it gets used whether it looks shit or not. Gaiters don't work so they don't get used.

Having trashed a brand new set of Fox Forks in 4 months have to say very disappointed in their suitability to the UK
Have resigned myself to the 15 hour thing and bought the fluids but they are not a fork for anyone who wants to ride their bike often. I've got a set of Marzochis and Rock Shox and they stand up to things far better
As soon as you talk to any of the bike shops you realise what a common problem this is. Think they should all sell new bikes with a big warning label if they have Fox forks fitted

Seems a bit hit and miss... a mates 36s died totally in 6 months, my 32s are a year old and pristine (plenty of use in all conditions)

My 36's have been nothing short of brilliant. 3 years & still going strong.

Mine get an oil change every couple of months & a clean of the seals/lowers, as do my girlfriends Pikes.

Fox's servicing requirements are no different to that of Rock Shox on the new ranges. Have you seen how often a Boxxer needs looking at?

Marzocchi, well, arn't they just a model of reliability right now too!

They all have their own unique needs, I certainly don't find dropping the lowers, cleaning the foam and a fresh dab of oil unreasonable every couple of months for what is easily the best performing fork in its class. The Lyric runs it close though, i'll give it that. At least it has a reasonable reliability record now after the early fork horror story...

I've not heard much about the new Marzocchi's, have you? the 07-08 were hit and miss but once you get them sorted they seem pretty stable 🙂

A product fit for the purpose should not be so temperamental. Over engineering is ok at competiton level, where money is no object and tecnicians ensure everything is perfect for each event. Air suspension in forks is clearly not robust enough for general use. We are picking up the tab and suffering the consequences!

It is evident that the absence of gaiters to protect seals from the ingress of dirt and moaiture is a massive oversight by the manufacturers! If it wasn't we would all be arguing about something else, such the ever changing standards E.G. The multitude of types of headset, bb designs, handlebar and seat tube thicknesses, ISO disc mounts/post mounts, ISO disc rotor mountings/Diatech mounting/Shimano splined disc mountings. 8spd, 9 spd, 10 spd. STI shifters with integral brake assys. Maxle/20mm axle/QR skewer. Lots of limitations for no good reason, but sold to us as standards.

"What is my point?" you ask. My point is that manufacturer's are constantly re-inventing and un-inventing the wheel. Much of it is about the advancement of technology in specific applications, but a lot more is to do with keeping the factory lines moving and getting us to buy new bikes and new compnents more often.

My old forks (discredited in this forum as being no better than rigid forks) have cost me nothing in 10 years and have been trouble free. Conversely, my new forks are under a warranty claim after 9 months and even if they hadn't failed, recommendations from top people in the fork service business, as well as the UK distributor, are that service intervals will be due at 9 to 18 month intervals. It depends on usage, but each time will cost me £75 plus a courier fee to get them to the service centre. Assuming I ride frequently, over the same period, I will spend between £550 and £1100 keeping them servicable. This assumes no failures. How likely is that judging by the content of this thread???

I was told that a service would cost £35 before I bought these so I feel a tad miffed about my predicament. I also have air shocks from Fox and O2. The O2 just cost £70 to have a seal replacement and nitrogen recharge. The shock was in mint condition, but the failure was due to seal break down after 2 years. So I should expect to get no more than 18 months out of this before the next service assuming i treat it well etc. I have spoken to a lot of people about shock and fork service lately and this is an issue that many customers will have no idea about until their units pack up. I am looking at annual servicing costs of £300 for two bikes. Make car servicing look cheap!

The current crop of forks are too complicated, too temperamental. Good engineering is making a product that consistently works in it's intended application, that is suited to the purpose. That doesn't cost a fortune to keep servicable. The manufacturer's know what they are doing and we are being mugged!

In my view the issue with foxs is that they only have 30 ml of oil in one side - this means the top bush gets no splash lubrication - relying on oil soaked into a bit of foam instead. The solution - put more oil in - it weighs a bit more but might cure the issue. I have a worn set of foxs - and since putting an extra 100 ml of oil in that leg you can see the oil now gets to the top bush.

erm, I run some Marzocchi 66 SL1 ATA's, I bought these secondhand (cheers Ianpv!) after he'd got them back from Windwave as he'd had them fail on him. These are Air forks with a lot of adjustment possibilities, they had a very bad rep for failing and its pretty easy to find tales of woe on the internet, it seemed like every set that left the factory seemed to have issues (this is prior to them being made in the far east which they are now).

I've been riding them for about five or so months and they have behaved impeccably, I think the industry is undoubtedly is a state of constant development but like all things; if you want to have the latest kit you need to put up with some teething problems, personally I'd prefer to pick up something slightly older that the kinks have been worked out of.

It's interesting to see what Noel from Knolly had to say back when the 66 SL1 ATA's were launched: http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=89324&page=2

I think the majority of people are mugging themselves believing the hype and jumping on the latest development in the hope that it will offer that "all important" improvement.

But do you know what, I'm glad people do, thats how things progress and progress is go, it works! (as do modern air forks!!)

rockshox manuals recommend a regular strip/clean like the foxes every 25 hours...

The stanchions on my 36's have worn quite badly due to lack of servicing. I have always run marzocchi and have been used to their reliablity, therefore I never really bothered servicing my fox forks when i got them.

There seems to be a few people saying their fox forks are fine after years of riding and no service. I bet if they stripped them down, they'd see the stanchions will have worn away where they go through the bushings.

I've just bought some old marzocchis again because I like the fact you dont have to touch them for years. Granted, they are heavier and offer less adjustment but they are nice and reliable. I wish marzocchi still made forks like this.

Why do the mags rate Fox forks?

Because they're light, they look great, they perform very well and they're usually reliable.

Yes, there seem to be recurring issues, but I'd imagine the time period a fork is usually tested over for a mag is no more than six months - during which time you'd be unlucky to encounter any issues.

Maybe a member of the ST editorial team could clue us in to how long forks are usually tested for reviews?

I have a worn set of foxs - and since putting an extra 100 ml of oil in that leg you can see the oil now gets to the top bush.

I think them being worn is helping there too. I didn't bother putting extra oil in my Vanillas once the stanchion was beyond redemption, but they still used piss what little there was down the outer during and after a ride.

'zocchis Z03 Bombers. On bike since new in 03 (surprisingly) and still fine to use without ever servicing - perhaps I should but I'm a cheapskate.

Oh, that's with 6 months in a container on the way over here, and the only thing was that the eta lever seized up, a couple of rides and it was free again.

I love my forks.

I had the Fox Vanilla R's when they first came to the UK- when was it? 2002? I ran them for 15months with no issues at all before selling them on- didnt service them once.

The service schedules have really put me off hence I went and bought a new pair of 05 Pikes instead. True they will never be as good as the latest Fox but at least I wont be raped for £80 a time to service etc. Ridiculous.

15 hours riding is what Rockshox used to say between servicing too when their forks were rubbish. Of course, no-one ever did it so they all failed.