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Hi chaps,
It used to be a boutique brand, Santa Cruz, once in the while I'd see a Heckler, or a Superlight, some times a Nomad.
Now, it seems like a hell of a lot of people are riding Santa Cruzes.
I could understand it if they were good value for money, or UK built, or their marketing had been pretty full on and targeted.
They're nice enough looking bikes, but are a lot for what they are.
So... what's going on? Has riding become more popular with big earners/spender in the last 12 months?
Ricks
Thank god they are not UK built, it would be £10k for a frame welded from pig iron (going by orange pricing). Still it would ride better than any 5 or 160.
Fashion.
They;re very good bikes. People like them.
Singletrackworld isn't a fair view of the general UK public. There are a lot on here but I still don't see that many around Cannock or any other trails.
i wish they made a 29er heckler.....i would buy one without a test or anything.
ace bikes....far far nicer than the made in yorkshire stuff.
They just look right. I'd have one if I could afford one.
MTB is the new golf, Santa Cruz is the new Callaway.
Santa Cruz are the new Specialized. Good for them in a way, in that they grew with the Mtb scene, with minimal reliance on road for their success, unlike Specialized.
Let's just hope that they don't get as trigger happy with the lawyers as The Big S has...
They're really nicely built, well finished, excellent warranty (lifetime of pivot bearing)
They are expensive, but you get what you pay for-we have less trouble with SC than any other brand.
I'm going to post a full report asap but basically I had a Blur LTc frame that was getting very close to 2 years old when the frame developed an 'issue' it was still ridable but I contacted Santa Cruz USA and Jungle about it and about a month later Jonty at Jungle handed me a brand new Bronson C frame.
That's why I'd buy another SC without a moments hesitation.
Because they are very, very good bikes.
My TBLTC is the best / most fun to ride bike I've owned /ridden.
a boutique brand, Santa Cruz,
They're making some truly stunning bikes at the moment. The orange Solo and blue Nomad are beautiful.
They are just good that's it really. Happily loads come up second hand and they make a cracking used buy too as they are sturdy and long lasting.
Singletrackworld isn't a fair view of the general UK public. There are a lot on here but I still don't see that many around Cannock or any other trails.
Every other bike at Glentress is a Santa Cruz.
Don't get me wrong, they look alright. But I just couldn't spend that amount on something that lots and lots of other people have.
Surely the economies of scale would mean they should now be a good value brand?
MTB is the new golf
This. Just look at the type of car in trail center car parks.
Or the amount of overbiked middle aged men trundling around your average red route.
Or the insane price rises for frames and kit in the past few years,
i built a 2005 bullitt up for a pal recently, proper heavy duty stuff on it. he had a la piere froggy, but it got pinched.
he rode snowden on the bullitt and said it was far better to ride than the 8yr newer froggy.
They are expensive, but you get what you pay for-we have less trouble with SC than any other brand.
If you lived in the US you'd pay an awful lot less for the same thing. Jungle taking the piss with their mark up (they do the same with Niner too) though I guess you charge what the market is willing to pay.
Ah, I see UK Distributer screws the UK market.
Reckon it's because they don't die. My Blur Classic is 11 years old and despite 'triggers broom' syndrome on parts it's more or less original. My Blur LT2 is 6 years old and also going strong. I am saving for a 5010C and it will be worth the wait. Canine gonads!
New colours are out tomorrow:
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All the best,
Lee.
And the Orange comment. Orange 5, 650B, XT build, Pike fork, £3200.
Santa Cruz Heckler, 650b, XT build, Pike fork, £4200.
Both have a hinge, so pretty good comparison. UK still better VfM. Plus money into UK jobs, not US jobs.
Every other bike at Glentress is a Santa Cruz.
Bollocks.
They're making some truly stunning bikes at the moment. The orange Solo and blue Nomad are beautiful.
Sums it up,really- that the Solo and Nomad are stunning. In the right colorway.....
Does surprise me though the way people are accepting of being screwed over on the pricing.
MTB is the new golf
I don't think it is. MTB has never been cheap to do, my 98 heckler with pace forks and stuff was really bloody expensive back then. Plenty of bikes hit 3-4k not just SC. Build a good SC up and you'll get 10 years out of it so £400 a year starts looking OK - I'd spend double that for a week on the slopes and I ride my bike loads more. The whole fat bloke at trail centres pisses me off - Im a fat bloke and I've ridden MTB since 1989 should I stay at home because you think there's some exclusive club you're in -Noob? Jealousy is an ugly thing do you think we'd even have trail centres if it wasn't for the new people coming in with their so called middle management money?
Why do people think we are being 'screwed' on the pricing? Do you have some secret insider knowledge about the massive margins everyone is enjoying?
Why do people think we are being 'screwed' on the pricing? Do you have some secret insider knowledge about the massive margins everyone is enjoying?
I'd be interested to know the truth on this. Niner frames in US seem reasonable prices - but over here they are stupid. Best part of £1000 for non-custom 853 hardtail?
Eh? Its never been boutique.
Bullit
Chameleon
Superlight
Blur
Heckler
All were v.populous YEARS AGO
Oranges are overpriced.
Two brands that Jungle distribute, at least (niner and s-c) seem to have particularly large price differentials between their US and UKmretail,prices.
We live on an island
SC get frames made in the FE and shipped to the US. It's not expensive to do that for large quantities
One or two containers of stuff then shipped to the UK and import duty and tax added (especially if it's come from US after FE) adds a lot to the end price. Distributer, retailer etc all add their cut too. Small quantities and a 'niche' brand especially coming via US doesn't come cheap.
It's because they are good.
I love my LTc Blur, it is honestly the best frame I've ever had and I'm happy to ride stuff I didn't on my previous frames, it's that good.
Previous ones were 456ti, s-works Enduro (2006), Enduro (2010), Orange five.
I'd buy another without hesitation.
Or the insane price rises for frames and kit in the past few years,
Look at a Fat Chance Ti or a Shock a Billy, Klein Attitude or Adroit etc in the UK in 1995/6, price rises are a myth.
Too short, too steep, too heavy and too expensive=Santacruz.
Had a Blur Classic for years but now have a 160mm travel german (alu) mince tank that weighs less, is 5deg slacker, is just as nimble and has a 10 year warrenty.
Slag off Orange all you like but compare the angles on the 5-29er with the Tallboy LT. I will never go near a short and steep bike again; I need all the skill compensation I can get!
For comparisons sake, another American premium brand (not boutique) Yeti, have a similar difference in UK Vs US pricing.
I'm pretty sure the Jungle boys arn't driving around in Ferrari's counting the wads of £50 notes piling up everywhere.
As tmb467 said. Not even taking in to account their business overheads, warranty stock commitments, spare parts commitments, marketing, demo fleet, demo events etc.
Stuff like the Niner's being expensive - I would have thought that's fairly obvious why, they sell next to bugger all. Of course they will be expensive.
No-one forces people to buy any of these brands - other cheaper products are available...
I've got a TRc, test rode loads of other bikes but as soon as I'd rode up and down the first hill I knew I needed one in the garage. Love it, unfortunately I keep breaking the forks attached to the front! I also think they look lovely.
I actually went to the headquarters last month whilst on our honeymoon and test rode a solo, the place is just as nice as the name sake bikes and the guys in showroom where ace as well.
For comparisons sake, another American premium brand (not boutique) Yeti, have a similar difference in UK Vs US pricing.
As do Ibis, Intense, Crackandfail, Specialized (s-works stuff), Pivot etc.
Because not many people know about the best bike company from Santa Cruz...
Dunno.
My old mk2 Chameleon refuses to die and still seems to be my favourite - which has led me to wonder if I actually need the FS and the nice, British HT on a few occasions. It's a beast with 36RC2s and is basically unkillable - and is pretty much my default trail bike. The only real weak points are the strengths - that super solid rear triangle does not really lend itself to long spinny days in the saddle, but it's not that sort of bike...
Re the full build prices: the actual frames aren't too bad as American imported frames go, basically swap the $ for a £ and chalk most of the difference to freight and landing costs plus the markup you'd expect any business to want. Where it seems to go silly is the build kit - which all seems to be RRP. I bet if you specced one with an LBS excluding any mates, trade or frequent flyer discounts you'd end up in a similar place. No idea about the Orange thing - I know people who love their Oranges but I've never quite got it since I gave up my Clockwork.
my single pivot SC was cheaper than the equivalent Orange single pivot frame
my single pivot SC was cheaper than the equivalent Orange single pivot frame
The money you paid for your single pivot SC frame went to pay very cheap wages in eastern Asia, not very expensive labour in Halifax.
...... Orange may be expensive, but you can at least see where the money goes.
SC seem like good bikes, and the ones I've ridden are very nice, but they do seem to be very highly priced for a (increasingly) large company... Mind you spesh should be cheap by that logic.
Seems to me that German brands on the whole are the only ones pricing reasonably...
Because not many people know about the best bike company from Santa Cruz...
Which is? Not the one that sells a 140mm travel bike thats actually 130mm??
Are skateboards more relevant than road bikes? : ) Specialized started out in MTB way back, aside from road P+A in the very early days.they grew with the Mtb scene, with minimal reliance on road for their success, unlike Specialized.
They aren't made in a cheap factory though.The money you paid for your single pivot SC frame went to pay very cheap wages in eastern Asia
I always liked Santa Cruz for making the Chameleon, that bike and the Z1 did change my riding in the late 90s. No rational reason for it now but I'd feel good about owning another SC if I was in the market for a susser.
The money you paid for your single pivot SC frame went to pay very cheap wages in eastern Asia, not very expensive labour in Halifax.
...... Orange may be expensive, but you can at least see where the money goes.
Bigger fool orange IMHO.
By that logic Hope should make all their kit in the Far East and sell it loads cheaper.
Id prefer my money goes into the UK market as muh as possible. Its increasingly difficult to do so though.