[Closed] Who has done a skills days / who hasn't?

with jedi. And I'd have happily paid double for the benefit I got from it.

yeah. that.

ski school is normal. bike coaching is weird. why?

I've had a skills day and it was great. Because I'm the only one out of the pals I ride with that has much enthusiasm for jumping, dropping or general trail excitement, so I wasn't learning much from them. Now they ask me!

Never done one and don't plan to.
It's not really relevant to the type of riding I like to do.

Been on a couple, both freebies.
Came away feeling my riding was below average and didn't feel I'd got any better TBH............. 🙁

booked for august, looking forward to being awesome.

I've been Jedi'd and it was worth every penny, I'm now quicker on the trail and will have a go at things I'd have gone no where near or rolled before.

Same as Simon. Done a couple of skills courses (not free). I felt some things helped a little but mostly came away feeling there was a lot more that before I went I thought I couldn't, and now I know I can't.

I had a day, well a morning,... it was sorta useful... but mostly rubbish.

jedi, he will change your riding for the better. Including [b]you[/b] MTQ.

Been riding an MTB since around '91 have neither the courage or humility to be told just how bad and inadequate I really am, I can imagine perfectly well and the truth is only going to be worse!!

But seriously, you can't improve without coaching. Just doing it doesn't work, it's why professional and amateur sports teams and individuals have coaches, to improve their performance.

Am considering a session for me and my 2 lads, I may be a bit past redemption but they are perfect raw material. Is Jedi the man to choose?

I decided to take up down hill this year after 21years of riding and racing XC. Although id always found I was quick down hill for an expert level xc racer, I knew it was a massive leap in terms of skill. First thing i did after building a bike was book a DH skills course. It was the best thing ive done in ages, as my confidence on big stuff has increase massively. Since then ive started racing and using what I learned have improved race on race... Skills course worked for me

Until a year ago I hadnt done any formal training in my 20+yrs of biking (on and off). I was self taught, from reading things like MBUK and video's like Tricks and Stunts. Got pretty good at biking, but not what I'd call using my full potential. I got bought a skills course with Cyclewise @ Whinlatter and wasnt expecting a lot, but the chaps there picked up on skills that I had an got me a lot further in a day than I had gotten myself in a past few years. Now looking to go and do a jumps course with Jedi at some point as we dont have anywhere local to build up the jumps/drops and get used to them. I'm sure he will work wonders too.

I can see the pro's and con's of both sides of the argument. Self taught vs a bad instructor, I would say is about level pegging for how much you will improve. But you cant possibly learn what a good instructor can teach you in anywhere near the same timeframe IMO. Far better off to spend the money on coaching than new bits for the bike, however hard it is to admit.

I had a session with Will Longden a few years ago. I think it helped but its no replacement for riding things yourself and practicing. I would rather spend the money on a trip away riding bigger hills

I have had 1:1 coaching with Dirtschool. I found it a proper eye opener. I had been riding the same sheep lines and stiff body language for years not knowing why I was stalling, falling and not knowing how to go faster where I wanted to.

Post coaching I have been able to think through the processes of my riding and why things work and why things don't. It was a very positive experience for me. I still get lazy and make mistakes etc but I can now see what quite a few of them are and try to avoid making them in future.

I used to watch videos and think I was doing the same sorts of things as people I was watching. I would say I was an OK rider when actually I was very poor. Coaching opened my eyes to how much body language you can use to increase flow and stability on the trail. It also opened my eyes to many different lines I would not usually consider and what the benefits may be for taking them. Made riding even more fun.

The coaching was a couple of years ago but I am still working on some of the things shown to me. It planted a seed.

I think some people can find their way to their own solutions easier than others. If you have strongly set bad habits a coach should be able to show you them and teach the benefits of trying other/better approaches.

Coaching is proven in so many areas that it seems odd to dismiss it as not being able to offer benefits.

Done 2 with Andy Barlow at Dirt School

1st one - Jump School. Got me back jumping & dropping after a bad stack killed my confidence

2nd one - All Mountain peronalized for me and a few mates preparing for Mega this year. Learned heeaps and still trying to implement the learnings into my daily riding

Both were great and would happily recommend. Will do it again in the future. All of my mates would echo that.

A day of skills coaching & practice is very, very worthwhile and better VFM than any shiny bike bits IMO.

I already know what I'm doing wrong & my riding is on par with my mates so when the course I'd booked got cancelled I wasn't overly fussed

I had a day at Lee Quarry with Ed Oxley , found it both useful , good fun and confidence improving . What other activity would you expect to develop skills in without some form of tutoring .Apart from anything else we all develope bad habits .Anyone can benefit from advice.

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rabs-world-coaching-smiles/

Was enough to convince me to sign up for some coaching as I seem to have reached an impasse where my fitness has came into form on the road, but I can't back it up at all with adequate skill on the trails.

Haven't

I need, to out of my comfort zone riding in the lakes now 😕

I'm doing mine next week with Emmy Hoyes at Roman Lakes in Marple, NW Peak District
http://www.mountainbikeskillscourses.co.uk/index.asp

Look forward to..

i haven't.

i'm sure they're a good idea for normal people* but i'm beyond help.

think; 'pi55ed pig on stilts' - that's me that is.

(*people with some sense of balance, people whose limbs go roughly where they're intended, people who aren't a total coward)

I've been riding bikes off-road in one form or another for donks - since my early teens in the 1970's (cyclo-X, off-road touring...on a touring bike with X tyres, mucking around bomb holes in the woods on home brewed dirt bikes, then 'proper' mountain bikes). Until the early noughties, I'd never given a second thought to doing mtn bike skills training. Didn't crash any more often than my riding buddies, so I thought I was OK - read the magazines/books and watched videos, and just went out riding lots. However, following a particularly spectacular crash, I thought it might be an idea to try a skills lesson as part of my getting back on the bike rehab program.

In the last 10 years, I've done a few skills courses, these have ranged from more XC race focussed type to ones that are more useful for harder trail centre and natural terrain. The lessons have truly revolutionised my riding - I'm no World Cup winning skills king, but I feel smoother, more confident and in control, and way faster down, up & around than I was before. Apart from one lesson, where the group size and mix of abilities was too great, I think that I've learnt something useful on every course I've done. Personally, I think if you get a 1:1 or 1:2 lesson, then go in with an open mind, then you'll get maximum benefit. (oh, and don't forget to practice the techniques/exercises you're given 😉 )

I've done one with forest freeride. It was good, the instructor was a top, top bloke and his passion for biking was infectious.
I was hoping that he was going to appraise my riding and start from there but he started a bit too basic really, maybe a bit generic (it was a one to one).
I did improve from the day but I feel that I could have improved more and frustratingly, we didn't cover all of the things which I had hoped to.

I would rather spend the money on a trip away riding bigger hills

Potentialy true, but:

a) would the trip not be even better after a skills course?
b) is coaching rally that expensive. If I drove 2 hours to ride somewhere different that's about £35 in petrol, or about half a skils course. Add in some mechanicals, food, etc (Ok you potentialy need these on a skills day as well).

I actualy recon that a days 1:3 with Jedi would probbaly work out cheeper than 1/6th of the cost of a weeks guided riding (£550 accom + guiding, £200 flights, £40 train etc, I usualy reckon it costs about £1000 to go away for a weeks riding, which seems ridiculous when you think about it!

Haven't yet, but keep meaning to book a 1-1 with someone. Would quite like to try Ed or Jedi. I like the cut of their jib. But it would mean some travel for me and I just haven't got around to it yet. One day...

Had a session with Tony and it was great. Not a completely instant improvement but its all sank in now. Haven't had a proper crash since (year and half ago now!) and its been a steady improvement. Now doing gaps and drops I thought I'd never do - I still remember going to woburn for the first time and being so intimidated by the easy bits that I dont even think about now! Next up is getting over the fear or proper dirt jumps/doubles so i can start riding the main lines in the woburn DJ area 😀

Haven't.

But seriously, you can't improve without coaching. Just doing it doesn't work

Might not have worked for you, but (made up stat) 97.4% of people get on just fine without paying for [i]riding a bike[/i] lessons.

I had a 1:1 with Jedi about two years ago, and a group session with someone else about a year before that.

1:1 with Jedi was more expensive, but deffinately worth it, the guy has great coaching skills. Got me riding faster through corners, landing drops more consistently and jumping doubles.

I guess everyone is different, but I've read mags and watched dvds before, but never picked anything up as well.

Euro - Member
(made up stat) 97.4% of people get on just fine without paying for riding a bike lessons.

for the kind of riding that 97.4% of people actually do; there's little required beyond 'stand up for the lumpy bits - don't forget to pedal'.

don't listen to me, i'm an idiot, and i'm crap at riding bikes.

Paid for my kids to be Jedi'd 🙂 wish I'd booked myself in as well but still came away enthused & now learn stuff off my kids. Think I'd have to find Tony's mute button before I contemplated a 1:1 session 😉

MTQ .
You will be faster through a technical section after a skills session.
You should also be able to ride further and faster for less effort .
There is also the outside possibilty you will crash less ( or be less likely to crash).

It's not really relevant to the type of riding I like to do

How would you know? MTB coaching totally changed the way I rode my delivery bike when I was a postman - for the better I might add

I also ride other bikes & the techniques are very transferable.

I dont ride technical stuff, just xc and bridleways so cant see the point in a skills day.Also im past all that jumpy stuff at my age.

Not me.

I think 'skills' training is great, and that jedi does a great job; the testimonials on here are enough evidence to prove that.

It's just not for me; I'm good enough at the riding I do, lots of road, more cyclocross later in the year for the 3 peaks. The limiting factor is not my skill, it's my training and the time I have to devote to it while working full time on a variety of shifts including nights.

I've not ridden a mountain bike for a year or so due to them being knackered and not wanting to invest the cash when I'm enjoying the road, but I never felt that a lack of skill held me back.

Slight hijack / divert.

Southampton Skills Coaches? http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/skills-coaching-southampton

I think it helped but its no replacement for riding things yourself and practicing.

What are you practicing? How do you know youre doing it right? I've been riding 18yrs*, and after several trips to the alps was getting pretty "good" (ie. brave) compared to my previous basic XC type riding, doing reasonable size drops (5-6foot) and gaps (18 foot*).

I had a serious injury in the alps (not on a gap/jump) and as a result started riding flats. This made me re-assess my riding from scratch, which is where the session with tony came in. I had all sorts of awful technique, putting my weight too far back on jumps (harking back to being a 9yr old trying not to go over the bars) amongst other things.

Tony highlighted the problems, and fixed them. I am now a better rider all round, and would rather do a 6 foot gap stylishly than an 18foot and just get away with it.

My point being I'd spent 8 trips to the Alps "practicing" my skills, in fact I was engraining bad practice and technique.

A good skills session will be a better use of money than any bling bike part. As others have observed, it's interesting that people are so happy to spend money on snow sports lessons but sniff at bikes. Maybe its easier to accept that youre actually cr@p at something you only do once a year?

*trying to give context on the impact of good coaching, not an attempt at willy waving.

Jumps? gaps? ive lived a sheltered life as I have not bothered trying either in 28 years of mtbing ,I dont want to break me or a bike.

I went up to see Tony/Jedi for something other than a skills day. in passing he changed by brake level position and explained why and got me to clear the double he uses for training courses.

His skills lie in communicating how to ride*

*i guess he has reasonable bike skills too

My Wife surprised me with one with Cycleactive.

Instructor was very good and enthusiastic and I got a lot from it.

I would love to do it again - I would do a solo though or a small groups with guys I know at a similar level; our group was quite mixed ability so the stuff we did was a bit more on the basics side.

Probably with Jedi - he seems to get good write-ups 🙂

I've done 2-and-a-bit. Definately worthwhile- they were all good days in their own right, and I've benefitted from them. One of them was a little bit less good than i expected but still probably worthwhile, the other one with Dirtschool and the short session with Ridelines were both excellent.

TBH I'm the limiting factor- I've failed to put into practice a lot of what I learned. But enough of it stuck to make a difference. And there was the other benefit to confidence- the 1-2-1 session with Andy at Dirtschool ended up being partly a benchmarking exercise, there were things I was doing right but wasn't sure if i was doing right. That alone was pretty useful.

None of it taught me anything I couldn't have figured myself. But maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't- and it would definately have taken longer.

rogerthecat - Member

But seriously, you can't improve without coaching. Just doing it doesn't work

Ah come on, everyone on here knows this is absolute rubbish. There is not one person on here that isn't better than they were the first time they rode a bike, and there's not one person on here that got there solely because of coaching. True story.

So far, 5 years of MTB'ing and no training, but come next Friday that all changes with an attack of the Jedi (2nd time round it can be the Return of the Jedi 😉 so i will be able to let you know how that compares to my poor self teaching experiments!

Also, you might just want to consider doing a skills course because it is fun in itself !!

Like Simon (page 1), been on two (one was same as Simon) and both occasions I came away not much the wiser. Both were big groups and the freebie one was coached by some guys who were as much learning their coaching trade I think.

On Sunday I'm on a Pro Ride Guides course who are more in the Jedi league (official coaches to the Mega Avalanche and currently doing the skills/coaching articles in MBUK). They seem to get good results and everyone I know who've been on their courses rave about them. I'm on their basic course, but with a bunch of friends so we can tailor it a bit, Shame about the weather forecast.

I have done one day with dirt school, it was excellent and will definitely do another.

I would say to those who say they don't need one, unless you really are totally confident world class rider or only stick to simple trails or have no desire to go faster/ride with more confidence, then do one. It will make a difference to your riding, I have been riding and racing offroad for 20 years and it made a big difference to me. Before I could out descend most on xc type trails and wouldn't say that's changed massively, it's not like I out descend everyone now, far from it but feel so much more in control and confident it's amazing.

As I said would love to do another one, at a slightly higher level, looking at more jumps and drops.

And those who didn't get much out of it, can only presume the course was at the wrong level or a poor teacher that only taught things one way...I am a teacher/tutor and thought Andy from dirt schools style of teaching was excellent.

[i]I would say to those who say they don't need one, unless you really are totally confident world class rider or only stick to simple trails or have no desire to go faster/ride with more confidence, then do one.[/i]

I would say you devalue the idea of skills courses by over egging the pudding.

I did a skills weekend a couple of years ago, and loved it. In fact, I think it is time to return.

I reviewed it at the time, but the centre was [url= http://www.forestfreeride.co.uk/ ]Forest Freeride[/url], and the instructor was STW member still-s8tannorm (aka Stuart).

I won a day with shaums march a few years back.

It was so wet a kayaking lesson might have been more appropriate...

crikey - Member
I would say to those who say they don't need one, unless you really are totally confident world class rider or only stick to simple trails or have no desire to go faster/ride with more confidence, then do one.

I would say you devalue the idea of skills courses by over egging the pudding.

Sorry not quite sure what your getting at? Yeah maybe in your case if your not riding a MTB then a skills day might be a bit pointless. I am not suggesting that a skills day is worth more than fitness but then if your a MTB racer looking to be as fast as possible then no stone unturned?

And yes maybe I over stated the point there's lots of reasons not to do one but what I meant is that if your open/thinking about the idea of doing one, get the right one and it will make more difference to your riding than say a new bike part.

No problem with anyone who wants to do a skills course. I'm curious about who is the typical skills course client. Did they take to MTB, or bikes in general, late in life? What is the typical level of riding most clients are aiming for?

This;

[i]And yes maybe I over stated the point there's lots of reasons not to do one but what I meant is that if your open/thinking about the idea of doing one, get the right one and it will make more difference to your riding than say a new bike part.[/i]

Is better than this;

[i]I would say to those who say they don't need one, unless you really are totally confident world class rider or only stick to simple trails or have no desire to go faster/ride with more confidence, then do one.[/i]

I've no problem with skills courses, but selling them like 'you can't possibly be any good without doing one' is exaggeration and devalues them.

They are of great benefit to some people, but not to everyone.

Fair point crikey! Agreed a bit over selling them, still amazed at how much of a difference it made it me as I was a bit sceptical that it would be useful having ridden for so long at a reasonable level and at that point in time not wanting to do anything but xc but did really make a difference to me.
But yes did go a bit over the top more than I meant!

I've just come back to MTB after about a year and a half of road. And instantly figured, damn, i'm going to rubbish getting back into this, but not at all.
Infact, opposite.

I've learned to be a lot more flexible on the bike and do more work, not just hang out and let the suspension do the work and also figured, yeah, I'm much more animated now, I boss the bike around 5x more than I ever used to before, but I still have a heap to learn.

though right now its just a case of getting bike upto a decent standard before I sort some training out.
Cyclewise fella's at whinlatter would probably be the closest (could ride there in 40mins lol).

I think that this is a great topic for discussion - as well as biking, I play a lot of golf and some of the guys I play with seem to pride themselves on the fact that they've "never had a lesson in my life" - but they're still playing off 18!!

If the best sportsmen/women in the world use coaches then why do "normal", less talented people, view it as a weakness to have a lesson?

I have a lot of golf lessons (which have, definitely, helped me to reduce my handicap) and I've just had my first MTB skills lesson (as mentioned in the Jumps and Drops thread) and would highly recommend lessons to anyone wanting to improve.

I have (February 2012) with Jedi

Probably the best mountain biking money I've ever spent

Definitely improved my riding (had an instant impact for me)

Changed my riding style for the better

I only wish I'd been to visit Jedi sooner

Ok! Friday has been and gone so now i'm in the "done a skills course camp" 😉

And?

Damm good fun for a start! If you like riding your bike then you're gonna have fun whatever you learn or fail to learn. Tony certainly has an intuitive eye for picking up both on peoples faults, but also on how to correct them. It ain't as simple as saying "you're crap at x y or z, do it this way" (especially with us blokes who like to think we know everything..........)

Throughout the day you could see how the course formulated itself, building on those first and simplest actions and skills, each challenge adding a new layer but not leaving the previous skill set behind. Based on a simple and easy to remember set of rules, you find your riding flows more and more as the day goes on. Whilst it has to be said i am never going to be a great "airtime" rider, the skills Tony teaches are very relavent to real world cycling imo.

We've all seen loads of videos on the Net of people jumping massive gap jumps, or manualling 300yards, or doing a complete 360 off the roof of a house, but if we are honest, this really is a bit of a false picture of riding for the vast majority. The skills you have re-enforced by a skills course, are those that you probably, subconciously, were probably using anyway, just maybe not at the right time or in the right fashion. Tony lays down the groundwork and enables you to take it forwards at your own pace.

He also makes a [b]fine[/b] cup of coffee and makes you feel right at home, important as it's easy to feel the pressure of scrutiny, and tense up, which is not good when trying to find some flow and smoothness.

As with everything in Life, you get out what you put in. I would have liked to have progressed a bit more in the time we had, but realistically, even the stuff I failed to learn on the day will now be there in the back of my mind everytime i get on my bike. I wouldn't call myself a "natural rider", it takes me some time to really pull everything together, but at least now i can begin to see how i ride from an external perspective, analyse the results of my actions, and file away the "good results" from the bad ones.

An interesting collorary of a few hrs of intense riding scrutiny, is that by making the basic actions more automatic, i actually should have more time to simply "appreciate the ride", spend a [b]lot[/b] less time looking at my front wheel 😉 and just enjoy it more for what it is.

The next few weeks should be fun 😉

Buying a dropper seatpost really opened my eyes to some of my bad habits. For instance, I realized that I had my butt on the saddle 99% of the time; I almost never stood up! Well, if you drop the saddle, then you have to stand, and it is really tiring when you're used to being in the saddle all of the time.

I would go see Jedi if I lived in the UK. I'm in the US though, and MTB coaching does not seem to be as popular here. After some searching, I found [url= http://www.leelikesbikes.com/skills-clinics-with-lee ]Lee[/url] but he's 1500 miles away!

In the interim, I bought Lee's [url= http://www.leelikesbikes.com/book-teaching-mountain-bike-skills ]book[/url] which just arrived yesterday from Amazon. It really does a good job of breaking down basic riding skills. I'm thinking about seeing if there is interest from others in running our own skills course where we read the book and help coach each other on maybe one new skill a week. That way, I'd have others there to look at my riding since you can't see yourself ride unless you make a video or something. No doubt that this is not as good as having an experienced coach, but it is probably better than trying to fix my riding on my own.

I also just bought [url= http://www.leelikesbikes.com/mastering_mountain_bike_skills_2nd_edition ]this book[/url] which goes much more in depth and covers more advanced riding than the NICA one. At this point, it is too much material for me to wrap my arms around though.

Ok, now I gotta go ride and practice that attack position...

realy need to do one of thease. anyone got the link to Jedi's website?

Yup, had day's one-to-one with Nigel Page. Cannot recommend highly enough. All the money we spend on *kit*, it has to be worth a bit of money to improve the skills too 🙂

I've been Jedi'd

Very, very, very worthwhile.

What he teaches is (one you've been taught it) incredibly simple, but it's the way he teaches it. My riding has come on loads since going. The techniques he teaches work for all riding disciplines (well, maybe not the jumping bit on road bikes!) and I can now corner on my Brompton at scarily (but very controlled) fast speeds. Every morning on my commute to the station I get a good belt of positive G on the folder in a tight left hander at the bottom of a hill - before this was a very wide scary turn onto the opposite side of the road!

I wanted to see Jedi before my upcoming trip to the Alps but at the time I enquired he was fully booked til September 😥

I spend an enjoyable winter's day with Stu at Forest Freeride. He spotted some flaws in my style which held me back, explained why I got scared and how to look past that with simple technique. We worked on:

Body positions and bike setup
Foot positions
Looking
Traction and braking (and most importantly, not braking)
Rolling obstacles
Switchbacks
Drops (keeping the bike more level to land on 2 wheels)

The main challenge since has been integrating practice into trail riding. Just riding along does not encourage practice. With riding time limited, I just don't practice enough. [b]So for me, a key advantage of coaching is that it is enforced practice time.[/b]