[Closed] Whats wrong with my climbing?

😀

12st is close to a good cycling weight for me; I'm 6'3".......

Sorry but being fast in a social group bears no relation to being race fit.

You're just not fit enough, you need to train more.

Let me know the answer I can't club for shit on the mtb, always kick Mrs K on the road bike or on the cx but in a mtb not a chance 🙂

I'm aiming to be 12st by the time the sun starts shining a bit more after the spring equinox.

I'm just shy of 13 now, and when I went out on the mountain bike yesterday, found technical climbs extremely difficult. With me right now, it's almost definitely a fitness thing.

OK. That's fine. As long as I know what it is...
Whilst I take some of the point that being fast in a social group means nothing, one of our "social" rides is occasionally a 1hr 30 effective Road Time Trial. Its anything but social! and fitness for that is fine. 🙂

I'll aim to lose a stone at least... by riding more. and eating less.
If climbing is all about power to weight, is it worth joining a gym and doing weights/squats etc?

Sorry but being fast in a social group bears no relation to being race fit.
You're just not fit enough, you need to train more.

I would agree with this 100%, but would also say that off-road technique will have something to do with it. I have some serious rebuilding to do, fitness-wise, but I also know that when I am in top form I can climb extremely well indeed on the road. My skills off-road, though, seriously limit what I am able to do.

Sorry but being fast in a social group bears no relation to being race fit.

This. And like it or loathe it 12st at 5'7" is pretty hefty for racing. You may not be fat by Joe public's standards but there's a big difference between thin and athlete thin.

If climbing is all about power to weight, is it worth joining a gym and doing weights/squats etc?

No; gym work kills brain cells.

Sorry to be blunt, but by racing standards you ate all the pies.
At 5'7 10st would be a pretty good to be strong for typical UK riding.

I go for road rides with a really fast guy and am always hanging on to keep up.. Its done wonders for my fitness. Luckily im only 61kg so theres not alot of me to go uphill. Do some more sprint intervals and hill attacks. But you have to literally put absolutely everything into it to get something out. Getting fitter is hard work..

Lose weight, get fitter as folks have said.

Out of interest, what race were you doing last night?

This thread had cheered up my 15st of flab no end.

So I need to be sub 11st then ha ha

Out of interest, what race were you doing last night?

This one?

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Yep extra weight and fitness. I'm 6'1 and at my best weighed 78kg(12 1/4 stone). Now about 84 and need to lose a whole lot.

Was still left behind in many XC races by whippets weighing 10kg less.

Trying to get fit again this year for some endurance and mtb marathon racing.

I'm 6'4" and I reckon my racing weight is 13st or perhaps just under.

You're too heavy as a start point which means your power to weight ratio is off. Yes, you could add some power but you're much better off losing some weight, a stone at least, if not 2. You could also do some specific training, if you're struggling on on steep stuff do some work on the turbo on short, hard efforts, up to a minute (longer if the climbs you struggle on are longer) at a variety of cadences.

And have we mentioned losing some weight?

Last nights race was the Mud and Sweat Series at Haldon, Exeter.
http://mudandsweat.com/nightrider3.html

A good low key series at two Foresty Commission sites. Last night was interesting in that it also attracted a lot of the local DH guys who more than made up time on the off piste trails in the dark that we hadn't memorised!!

Ok.I get the message, although the wife has told me that 10st is too skinny for me I'll aim for 11 until she gets used to it!

This thread had cheered up my 15st of flab no end.

So I need to be sub 11st then ha ha

Can i just add that if you are going to lose weight, don't do it like a couch potato (I.e pure calorie restriction).

There is a book called Racing weight, its a great resource for someone who does sport and is trying to slim down.

Lose weight, that'll make a huge difference to your power to weight ratio.

I'm 5 8" and went from just over 11st to 9st 10lbs and the difference was huge, my fitness has boomed compared to a year ago. I sit in the middle of that BMI chart for recommended weight and I'm not skin and bone Froome style either.

You're sub 10st and think that's in the middle of normal weight,?

Are you a 13 year old girl?

It may also be that you're not able to ride at high outputs, try some short intervals.

I didn't see your height/weight, that's the first thing to attack.

If you lose weight while getting fitter and developing your high end, win, win, win.

At 6' I was sub 11 stone at one point. Only managed to podium a couple of Scottish masters races.

Well just to add another dimension, I did that race too Duncan, I'm 1/2 inch taller than you and 12stone too, I remember riding past you on the climb, and I went on to get 2nd in masters and 7th overall*, and crashed twice pulling the hose out of my rear brake on lap one which made the next 3 laps a bit challenging!

I always lose my places on the climbs too because I'm overweight, but I have enough power to ( almost ) compensate for it, so yes we both need to lose weight but brute force also helps!

*was 5th until the last 750m but lost a sprint as I was cream crackerd by that point!

weeksy - Member
You're sub 10st and think that's in the middle of normal weight,?

Are you a 13 year old girl?

Calm down fatty.

You're lucky Larry, using a Weeksy calculator i'd be an 11yr old girl 🙄

There is a book called Racing weight, its a great resource for someone who does sport and is trying to slim down.

This is good for understanding. But, it's simply a questions of watts/kg or how strong you are for your your given weight with a bit of technique thrown in.

Spend a bit of time training to up your power and embrace the pain, and at the same time eat a healthy related diet probably with less shite and calories.

Racing hurts if your doing it properly.

I did that race last night too and if it makes you feel any better I'm 5'9 and just over 10 stone and finished 58th so weight isn't everything.

That was my first race in about 3 years just to see how unfit i was as since my daughter was born I just haven't had time to put the miles in and when i do get out on the bike I'm doing more D/H orientated rides too. And I did it on a very non xc hardtail just to get another excuse in 😆

You're the same height and weight as me...26.4 on the BMI chart I believe which is in the overweight class. I don't race but ride with someone fit and at the right weight and when it gets really steep and not technical he keeps going and I disappear backwards.

If you can swim and have a good pool nearby that is one of the best ways to lose fat healthily while building your cardio. I know it's not what the pros do but the pros don't start out two stone overweight and probably don't drink 10-20 pints a week or eat piles of cheese.

So far this year I've managed just under 10k a week in the pool and only ridden at the weekend. The change in such a short time is unreal, if I was out on the road bike or night riding in my evenings I'd be ill with a chesty cold by now.

Just my two penneth...

I'd agree to some extent about the weight, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, just get out and ride more, and watch what you eat, rather than trying to lose weight.

one of our "social" rides is occasionally a 1hr 30 effective Road Time Trial

I remember a rule of thumb for racing cyclist's weight: height in inches = weight in Kg. So at 5'7" = 67" = 67Kg which Google tells me is 10st7lbs. A pure climber will weigh even less.

In addition to not weighing as much you probably need some race conditioning - most of us will back off when things start to hurt, racers will keep pushing.

So at 5'7" = 67" = 67Kg which Google tells me is 10st7lbs. A pure climber will weigh even less.

Had a quick play with a spreadsheet and [url= http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/PowerSpeedScenarios.aspx ]cyclingpowerlab[/url].

Riding a road climb of 100m at 10%. You hit the base of the climb alongside that 67kg rider (adding 11kg of bike and 3kg of kit). Say you both do 500 watts up the hill. He'll be travelling at 19.5 kph, you'll be doing 17.9 kph. He'll get to the top about 1.65 seconds before you. Might not sound much but after that 20 seconds of effort you'll be over 8m behind him. To keep up you'd need over 50 watts more power.

If the climbs are quite short too it's also a question of whether you can put in repeated bursts of power way over threshold, while riding most the rest of the course at close to threshold power (assuming the race is about an hour long.) Some people are much better at these sorts of effort than others.

Oh and I'm 6ft and 71kg, to be competitive at XC I know I'd need to lose weight 🙂 (as demonstrated by ferrals post below!)

whitestone - Member

I remember a rule of thumb for racing cyclist's weight: height in inches = weight in Kg. So at 5'7" = 67" = 67Kg which Google tells me is 10st7lbs. A pure climber will weigh even less.

Hmmm, I'm 5'7 and I race xc and cx as much as wifely forebearance will allow, my 'racing weight'* is closer to 57kg. I am good on climbs, its my strongest point, but I still get smoked by the fit guys.

However, one thing to think about is were you warmed up enough for a climb off the start? I find I can sprint ok (for me) even if not super warmed up, but hit the first climb unprepared and its brutal. Pain management is much harder on a climb when you dont have the sprint adrenaline.

*Not intentional racing weight just what happens by riding a lot and avoiding cakes, at the moment people keep giving me cakes, I've put on over half a stone since mid december!

edit: also like you I find long climbs a breeze, and anyithng up to about 10% is fine, beyond about 12% though and I'm struggling, seems like for me thats the cut off where aerobic is less important and anaerobic power moreso, or maybe just where my position on the bike is not eficient

Yes, it's a rule of thumb so probably wrong. Does go to show just how light racing cyclists are though.

I'm 5'11" so should be 71Kg according to that. The last time I was at that sort of weight I was suffering from a severe tropical gut disease and the results weren't pleasant! Once I go below somewhere in the 78-80Kg range then I look very thin and gaunt.

Yes, it's a rule of thumb so probably wrong.

I was going to use it as an excuse to eat more!

great post.

hi dabaldie.. i'm based in somerset.. i'm also 5'7, and also just over 12st!

i've also known for a long time that my weak point is climbs. what i've read is that the important factor is your vO2max.

on top of losing weight there are two ways to do this:

1) ride up lots of hills 🙂
2) do HIIT

i do '1' every weekend, and when able to '2' do HIIT midweek on an indoor bike

when doing '1' i use an HRM and stop myself over-exerting (my experiience tells me 160 is the max level to keep at and over 175 means rest right away).

as ferrals said, certain ckimbs aren't too bad, but really steep ones push the heart rate up super quick

any input

remember a rule of thumb for racing cyclist's weight: height in inches = weight in Kg

even thats got fatter!! I knew it as twice height in inches = weight in pounds

your version adds 10%

I also know that when I am in top form I can climb extremely well indeed on the road.

Last summer he was quite a bit quicker than me on road, but still slower off it. And he's 15kg lighter. Technique is a lot of it.

But I also think with MTBing it's to do with power delivery above threshold. I know a guy who is powerful up to his threshold which is high and he can hold it for ages, but can't really go over it at all. On the road he can climb well because he's also light, but off-road when you need 30 seconds of extreme grunt to get up something steep, he can't find it.

whereas I am 5 10 and weigh 71 (so should lose a kg according to that guideline)

I would never describe myself as thin at all. I think I would need to get down to around 65kg before looking thin.

he can hold it for ages, but can't really go over it at all. On the road he can climb well because he's also light, but off-road when you need 30 seconds of extreme grunt to get up something steep, he can't find it.

That just described me almost perfectly.
You get good at what you practice, and for me i spent years practising to be strong on hour long climbs when on holidays in the mountains. Maybe not the smartest training for the other 51 weeks of the year living in a country with very few long climbs......

That just described me almost perfectly.

Me too 🙂 Again a case of being (fairly) good at what you practice, and I train mostly for time trials.

Again a case of being (fairly) good at what you practice, and I train mostly for time trials.

Not convinced, actually - I think it may be more a case of wanting to do what you're good at. Sprinters gotta sprint, testers gotta test, to paraphrase the pelican in Finding Nemo.

I find that there's always an angle of climb that I don't get on with: might be fine on 11% and 13% but useless on 12%. Probably a mixture of my gearing and natural cadence range.

I find it best to train on a hill with a variety of cadences: spin up it on one rep; go up a gear for the next and so on. Obviously you get to a point where you can't physically turn the pedals but it stops you training in one particular rut. Also helps if the hill isn't too long - a couple of minutes is fine.

Not convinced, actually - I think it may be more a case of wanting to do what you're good at. Sprinters gotta sprint, testers gotta test, to paraphrase the pelican in Finding Nemo.

Bit of both - at 58kg I could train nothing but sprints and still be terrible at them (unless they pointed up something steep!). That's not to say i don't like a daft sprint every now and again though
But I like holidays in the mountains, so no hardship tailoring my training towards that.

I think it may be more a case of wanting to do what you're good at.

I wish! 🙂

Lots of talk of weight in this thread, and I have no doubt that my climbing would be improved if I didn't weigh 80kg. However, the techniques involved in climbing - or indeed riding - off-road should not be underestimated. I've been out on my MTB with fellow roadies who destroy me on the roads on anything with even the slightest uphill gradient, yet throw some rocks, mud and even a bit of snow into the mix and I'm the one waiting for them.

when you need 30 seconds of extreme grunt to get up something steep, he can't find it.

I think this is probably very true. I can't climb for toffee on the road and I'm not that great off-road, but I can usually find that extra udge to overcome short, hard sections.

In summary, don't listen to me; I can't climb at all 😆