[Closed] What the F? 'The wheel decision isnt our choice'

[i]You're seriously equating V-brakes vs disc with the introduction of a wheel size[/i]

No, my point was the[u] arguing [/u]was just as bad, then the arguing dies down when people realise its just bikes, they can still have fun riding in circles in the dirt, and get on with their lives...

Have any of you been in a bike shop recently? Quite a few round here are full of road a comuter bikes and stock a token number of mtbs. Road looks comercially cool and mountain bikes look a bit naff whatever the size of the wheels

Agree with Bruce - when I was last in my nearest Leisure Lakes, the road / commuter section had grown loads and had taken over a lot of space where the mtb's used to be.

I guess for a shop they are easier to stock spares for too because the 'standards' seem to have some shelf live.

The market was always going to struggle, especially when you consider who the average cyctlist is demographically and the impact the recession has had on them. Not only that, the second hand market is stronger than ever made easier by the internet. When I first started riding, I just hoarded stuff because selling it via the back of MBUK was a pain. Now with forums its easy.

I'll be honest who really cares which wheel size wins or lasts the distance? If you buy a product (new bike) and it works for you and where/how you ride - it becomes immaterial surely whether it's a 26er, 29er or their bastard offspring. If its any good people will continue to use it and create demand for it and its ancillary products (wheels, bb's, tyres etc) for as long as people actually use them. As mentioned above - if people don't continue to buy something (immaterial of how good it may actually be!) it wont last. Hence why my LBS is frankly lacking in a full and decent range of Penny Farthings and Recumbent cycles the bastards!

Stuff this for a game of soldiers, I'm going back to BMX. 20in. 4130. Job done.

I'm with Broooeesss (back up the top)

My last "big" bike change (frame wheels forks brakes) was about 2005 when I went to discs (although iirc I had disc ready forks already) - I moved from an fsr xc to Yeti 575 and difference was night and day, in terms of geometry as much as anything. I never questioned that i was getting a far better overall product

Now - I would need to sell a perfectly good bike which I thought was pretty future proof (bolt through rear, tapered head-tube, modern geometry) plus wheels and forks just to get a slightly bigger wheel

which has p*ssed me off. 29 I can see the benefit of - 27.5 I can't. But if you believe Santa Cruz - it's not them deciding this, it's the customers telling them that that's what they want

But if you believe Santa Cruz - it's not them deciding this, it's the customers telling them that that's what they want

Now - I would need to sell a perfectly good bike which I thought was pretty future proof (bolt through rear, tapered head-tube, modern geometry) plus wheels and forks just to get a slightly bigger wheel

so don't!

there's no need to change, unless your old bike is wrecked at which point it doesn't matter what your old bike is if you're replacing it anyway.

@ asterix - I posted the link below before. they produced 26 inch version of the Bronson but pulled it 'cos it wouldn't sell

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

[i]Having seen the Ibis Mojo news on the front page this morning, I have to commend Ibis for getting it absolutely right.
...More of this, please.[/i]

"£2399 for the frameset."

Having a laugh, surely?

Agree with Bruce - when I was last in my nearest Leisure Lakes, the road / commuter section had grown loads and had taken over a lot of space where the mtb's used to be.

Yep.

Most people don't have a lot of need for a mountain bike.

Commuting is becoming more popular in some areas and people are choosing the tool for the job. This is a good thing.

Keeping up with the latest 'innovations' in mountain biking is expensive and can be worthwhile. Having said that, with fairly light-weight & decent suspension, brakes, transmissions and tyres having already been invented, it is difficult to see how a slight change in wheel size, requiring a new frame and tyres can really be justified in riding terms.

Santa Cruz possibly did have a lot of people asking for 650b wheels, but they are selling expensive kit to people with a (generally) large disposable income, who may want the latest fad. I suspect that there weren't 1000s of people demanding it though.

It's funny reading the microcosum UK perspective. Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider

Didnt the olympics put the lie to the performance effect of different standards, with a podium that had 26", 29", HT and FS on it?

all the way to 7th? The last Gorrick race is our real world - the Oregon Enduro isn't. It's all relative. Nice to see that we're not quite as gullible in the UK.

It doesn't matter. US sales of high end mountain bikes dwarf the UK's. The US is the real world to Trek, SC, Specialized etc. You wouldn't believe how many XX1 Bronson's I saw at the weekend. I'm not advocating any of it BTW.

What about Fort William? Both Men and Women's races won with 26" wheels.

crashtestmonkey - Member

Didnt the olympics put the lie to the performance effect of different standards, with a podium that had 26", 29", HT and FS on it?

And a 650b...

Exactly. The question you have to ask is would the same people have taken the top 6 places if they had been riding on 26" or 650b wheels?
The human engine is also quite important.

90% of them were on 650b! One 29" I believe.

I totally agree though but racing is the ultimate form of marketing. Remember Specialized signing Hill? Sales of the Demo (admittedly a good bike) were 2x any other DH bike.

Let's be honest, it's bullshit.

I've been knocking about with other MTB'ers for years.
I've never, ever heard anyone say 'That was a great ride folks, but I really, really wish my wheels were a bit bigger'.

It's cynical, obvious, unecessary corporate marketing bollocks and is genuinely turning me off the whole scene.

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

But it doesn't sell advertising space to appeal to thick, status obsessed idiots who judge the worth of others based on the little silver numbers on the boot lids of their cars.

And I'm getting a bit tired with those who should know better attempting to justify this whole ****er's outing.

Emperor's new clothes?

Damn right.

[i]'That was a great ride folks, but I really, really wish my wheels were a bit bigger'.[/i]

Did you nick that line off me? 😉

Life used to be so simple.

Agree with Rusty

Well, if this whole conspiratorial marketing led bike industry is so upsetting, take up rambling.

Now that would be flouncing 😀

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

But you know you can only pick 2, right? 😉

I was away from mtbing a bit then couldn't believe all the 'new' pigeonholes that had cropped up while I had been away! No point in muttering about one bike doing all BITD as there has been loads of progress and innovation. Anyway BITD I was riding a Fisher with an Evolution headset and ordering in parts like Gripshift, Flexstem, etc (1991) so not hiding from following latest tech or trends.

That said I picked up the latest mbuk, 25 year anniversary edition, as I'd been there for issue 1. A little piece near the front mentioned how enduro bikes had taken things back full circle to one bike to do it all!

Perhaps 'another' wheel size was an obvious reaction to stop that!

Spot on Rusty ...
Re 27.5 remember Americans love to be marketed to and have the new and shiney ...
New wheel size keeps the old footfall going at shops ...

26 and 29 will survive. It won't be any more complex than that. If peple really want 27.5 they will just stick them in their 26 inch frames ....

I'm not arsed.

1.5 steerer now tapered etc. 26" will be around.

1 1/8 forks are hardly 'dead' are they.

JCL - Member

It doesn't matter. US sales of high end mountain bikes dwarf the UK's. The US is the real world to Trek, SC, Specialized etc.

It helps that the population of the US is enormous and that luxury goods like bikes have always appeared been much cheaper over there too.

Having said that, I'm always amazed by the flashy kit on display at places like Llandegla car park -Oddly, it never seems to overtake myself and my fellow short-ride-weekend-warrior-dad friends, though... the few very fast descenders always seem to be on battered bitsa machines. Fast climbers on all kinds of XC weirdo bikes of all vintages.

You wouldn't believe how many XX1 Bronson's I saw at the weekend.

Well, I suppose that depends upon whether or not you have a Saturday job in Santa Cruz's warehouse.

I think with his obsessive love in for all things 29 & Specialized, he has a job polishing the underside of my CEO's desk with his head 😉

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

It isn't though, is it? Making innovative things is true innovation.

As long as I can keep getting decent tyres then I really don't care if 650b becomes dominant - my current big tyres make my bike so close to 650b size that there's almost nothing in it and thus there's clearance to run skinnier 650b tyres if it's relegated to spare/wife bike duties.

Define 'innovative' then.

Me thinks bike companies are desperately scrabbling round for new! ideas.

Every years its a visual tweak etc etc.

Now we've got new! Murdered out forks...

That look like mazz 55's

For once I actually feel sorry for bike shops. They have to stock loads of weird bits for old bikes already and with the multiplication of standards for just about everything they haven't a chance of covering all the bases. It will just drive even more trade on line.
Or perhaps only the obsessed internet buyers will go for each new standard leaving the LBS to stock stuff for those who don't feel the love for 'new for the sake of it'.

There are some great bikes available right now. 😀

There have always been some great bikes available. 😀

Be interesting if contributors to this thread declared any industry/media involvement too.

my current big tyres make my bike so close to 650b size that there's almost nothing in it

Mine too.
Doesn't seem much point in a new size really, does there?

Create a buzz
Shift more units
Reinvent the wheel

To gullible 'must be part of the crowd types'

A pro or top end rider shaving 1second etc per lap. Translates to waste of time for the other 95% of riders?

If I see a top end 29'er I think I'll feel pity for the bloke riding it

my LBS has three otherwise identical bikes with the 3 different wheel sizes next to each other on a sales stand and most people cant actually tell which is which between the 26 and 650b, unless they compare the wheel sizes very deliberately. If they weren't next to each other only the officianados would know which was which

The 29er is obviously different.

I know its been said once. 1" inch suspension forks were never a standard. I think 1 1/8" was pretty big before any suspensions forks came out or many were sold. 26" wheels have been standard for a really long time.

Forks have been said will not be too big a problem as 650b will fit. Rims should be fine as I don't think expensive tooling is needed for a rim diameter so some one will keep making them. Tyres might be an issue but there will be a lot of bikes wanting new tyres for a long time yet. I think 27" road wheels were dropped over 20 years ago and you can still get them.

In the original article I found this bit curious

"The supplier scuttled the order to avoid being stuck with 26-inch bikes when the wave of bigger wheels hits the shores in a few months."

If that's true then they cancelled the order due what they think consumers want. Not as an industry fix up.

I think that problem is simply this. The uk is too small a market to sway the industry. I think we are trapped by consumer demand in other countries. I think the American really want a new wheel size. I think consumers like buying into new ideas. In contintal Europe I think people don't play triggers broom. I think they buy a bike and replace it when its old. So a wheel size change will be pain free.

If I see a top end 29'er I think I'll feel pity for the bloke riding it

Don't, I really like my bike. 😀

hora - Member

Create a buzz
Shift more units
Reinvent the wheel

To gullible 'must be part of the crowd types'

Yeah thats right.

Thats why bike isn't 'trending' and I run a 2001 XTR rear mech.

Get with the program

hora - Member

Yeah thats right.

Thats why bike isn't 'trending' and I run a 2001 XTR rear mech.

Get with the program

You had me until 'program(me)'. 😀

My main mtb is 8 years old:
It's got a steel frame - you know, one of those that'll 'last a lifetime'.
The 8 year old Mavic rims are perfect.
The 8 year old Hope hubs run fine on new bearings.
The 8 year old, well serviced Rebas are spot on.
Everything else has been replaced, which is fine, because stuff wears out.

I love it.

If I have to spend another £1300 to replace it if it gets nicked, I don't know if I'd bother.
I'd probably just buy something secondhand, depriving a manufacturer of new bike sale.

This is such a horribly cynical move by the manufacturers and the media, I can see a lot of older mtb'ers just jacking it in.
No new standards in walking boots. 😉

Btw, talking of the media, has anyone seen a dissenting article in any of the magazines?

I predict great bikes will still be made in 15 years time.

Does it really matter what wheel size they are?

Btw, talking of the media, has anyone seen a dissenting article in any of the magazines

Given advertising revenue I doubt we will.

With road bikes poised to 'sprout' discs it looks like the industry has cyclists every which way!

Who was it who said they were off to bmx? Don't blame them, I'd join them but my kids would disown me 🙂

No but its mildly irritating that we are told that visually-pretty products from last few years are now old hat. Its almost like Journos etc have short memories.

Could almost be seen as making a mockery of their claims to represent the true interests of their readership, couldn't it?

Unless they really, really believe it's for the benefit of everyone.
Not only the industry of which they are an intrinsic part.

would anyone really stop cycling because they were upset about wheel sizes?

another way of looking at this is if 27.5 is just slighter better why not change. why spend the next thousand years on the less good wheel size because changing is a bit of a pain

ampthill - Member
would anyone really stop cycling because they were upset about wheel sizes?

another way of looking at this is if 27.5 is just slighter better why not change. why spend the next thousand years on the less good wheel size because changing is a bit of a pain

For a few people lucky enough, riding bikes is their profession.

For everyone else, its something they do for fun.

If you think that a slight change in wheel size will make you have better fun then go ahead, I'm not that bothered though.

another way of looking at this is if 27.5 is just slighter better why not change. why spend the next thousand years on the less good wheel size because changing is a bit of a pain

I've got old frames & wheels that are used in the winter and for touring.
We pass them on to the kids.
They get used and recycled.

But mostly because I don't like being bent over and taught a lesson by bunch of ****s in polo neck jumpers who have decided that the hard earned few grand that me and my Mrs have spent on our hobby over the last 20 years was a complete and utter waste of time.