[Closed] What the F? 'The wheel decision isnt our choice'

upset by a wheel size? er...

I can still order 26 1 1/2 b Tyres from a very long time ago , so not to worried about demise of 26" wheel stuff any time soon

decent 26" stuff will be around for a couple of years and then start to disappear.

Find good 7spd or 8spd now, won't be long before 9spd is off the menu as well.
Find a good cartridge bottom bracket, etc.

Yes you will be able to find the cheap stuff but that is all you will find.

TBH i don't know if the bike industry is actually doing themselves any favours. They seem to be trying to force new sales, but speaking to a few, people are holding off buying because they don't want to be stuck with something they won't be able to get parts for in a year or two.

If 650b doesn't sell, 26 will get reinvented next year.

I think that 26" stuff (and by that I mean rims and tyres) will be around for a good deal longer than that!

Once you move outside of the rarified air of MBR/STW, there's a good deal of folks for whom 26" has, and will continue to work perfectly.

@mrmo - slightly flawed argument.

You could retro fit 9/10 speed stuff on to an older bike - ok rear hubs sometimes needed to be replaced but generally you could upgrade an older bike but you could keep the same brakes, bb, frame etc.

With 650B / 29er you have to in most cases ditch the bike.

With literally millions of 26ers kicking around the world that is going to take more than a couple of years to die off.

Cheers

Danny B

I Can still buy good taper BBs , Royce and Phil wood supply them in normal and campy taper

The invisible hand will dictate. There are far more 26ers riding the trails who will need replacement bits than any other fad wheel size.

I wouldn't buy a new bike at the moment, it's all too much up in the air!

Luckily the ability to purchase has been removed for a few years so Ive escaped this terrible fate, and Im now riding a "classic" 2011 100mm 26er in fact the big S decided that 26ers ate dead about three months after I bought it so Im now niche-tastic! Unlike the 29er crowd!!! 😆

danny, find a 1" suspension fork, i have been through this before. good 1" forks disappeared very quickly even though there were plenty of fairly new bikes around. Have a look at the road market and look for 1" forks. You can find them but the choice is dwiddling fast, and you can still get a topend frame with a 1" steerer.

not saying you won't get something, just don't expect anything half decent. Have a look at the choice of rim brake rims, not much in the way of decent stuff now.

Orange boy, custom machine shop offerings that most can't afford, find a UN91 or equivalent.

I came back on here after a couple of years break (glad to see TJ gone). I don't read mags so was surprised to see this 29" wheel size, never mind 650b (which mugs are buying into that? Are you kidding me?) Ok, 29" gives a nice alternative but 650b is playing you all as idiots. I can't believe people are actually buying into it, I really can't.
Stil riding a 20yo 26" bike, my 2010 26" bike works fine too. Don't ever remember seeing a 29" bike round here (W Yorks), no one I know owns one or is even thinking about it.
I think I'll be able to buy decent kit for my bike for a few decades yet.....

The invisible hand will dictate. There are far more 26ers riding the trails who will need replacement bits than any other fad wheel size.

all the more reason to not provide parts, as parts wear you nudge the riders onto the new stuff by removing choice.

[i]"It's not the consumers choice"[/i]

But they are quite correct, in that you can only buy what is been produced and sold.

The chaos and uncertainty in the mountain bike market is a massive turn off for me.

No new bikes or forks or wheels until the major manufacturers stop changing their mind every 5minutes.

Well done bike industry you've turned me off spending potential four figure sums.

In the meantime I will continue to ride my bike and use up my spares without panicking.

While we are at it can we settle on just a couple of bb standards?

[i]I think I'll be able to buy decent kit for my bike for a few decades yet..... [/i]

🙄

How is this news? It's been on the horizon for ages and sheeple will just lap it up.

Remeber when 29ers were starting to pop up on people's radar? You had to buy a frame, source tyres....wait for decent forks to emerge....it happened very slowly over years until some bigger brands really got behind it. Even now they represent a tiny minority on the trails.

But look at 650b. You can buy, or very soon buy forks, tyres, rims in virtually every imaginable flavour already, but yet you can barely buy a 650b bike anywhere yet. Strange that rockshox, fox, maxxis schwalbe wtb etc etc etc should produce such a vast array of products for non existent bikes.

The trap has been set. It's just a matter of weeks before the "new" 650b bikes start filtering through to magazines - I predict rave reviews and very favourable comparisons to their 26 and 29er counterparts.

It's a joke, you only have to look at the race results from the enduro world series to see that any benefits from 650b are largely negligible. Unfortunately 29ers have shown bike companies just how gullible people are and now they see another massive opportunity to sell the emperors some new(new) clothes.

I don't buy this at all.

Consumers will vote with their wallets, which is why 29"ers haven't taken hold of the market completely yet. All of my bikes are 26" and will continue to be so for the forseeable.

There will be a demand for 26" rims and tyres for some considerable time yet, if the main players leave that marketplace then niche players will have an absolute field day.

all the more reason to not provide parts, as parts wear you nudge the riders onto the new stuff by removing choice.

No, while there is a market, someone will supply. It would take a concerted effort by all parts manufacturers to decide simultaneously to stop. Even then, someone else will step in.

They can not and will not stop selling until it becomes economically unviable.

I just read the bit down there about the "new" mojo hd-r.

It just sounded like a faffy compromised bs exercise.

I'll be sticking with what I have for as long as I can.

..

PJM1974

I don't buy this at all.

Consumers will vote with their wallets,

It's just that there will be very few "standard" mid to high end full suspension bikes for you to buy next year. manufacturers are conspiring to wipe them out.

No, while there is a market, someone will supply. It would take a concerted effort if all parts manufacturers to decide simultaneously to stop. Even then, someone else will step in.

Is there a market though? how many people replace suspension forks, in the real world not STW? forks come with bikes. I seem to remember that Rock Shox only offer spares for three years after release and they are not alone. So the solution will be to run 650b forks in place of 26" if you need a new fork, it is near enough.

How many people buy wheels aftermarket? very little demand for replacement rims anymore as no rim brakes to wear them out.

you'll find some stuff, just the choice will be reduced and may not be perfect.

It's a joke, you only have to look at the race results from the enduro world series to see that any benefits from 650b are largely negligible.

Please, not that old chestnut again!

rOcKeTdOg

Please, not that old chestnut again!

Yes. That. Again.

I've been mountain biking for nearly 20 years and I don't recall any of the significant innovations ever being resisted like these new wheel sizes are, and I think that says the customers are smelling a rat...

Steel to ally to carbon - ok
Suspension - all good
Riser bars - ok
Disc brakes - yep
Dropper posts - aye
More gears - yep

With all of these, they felt like a significant positive development which would make riding more enjoyable and so we've been happy to spend the cash.
But this wheel size stuff just stinks of industry-driven change for the sake of it... if 26 inch is so bad, how come it's lasted nearly a quarter of a century without debate? 29ers - ok, it's a new/additional choice, fair enough - But ditching an embedded wheel size and refusing to support it, leaving 99% of riders up the creek with a bike they're perfectly happy with but can't get spares for... that's not good business, it's trickery... if articles like the OP are correct I've got to fork out for a new frame, forks, tyres, wheels and gearing (whole new bike essentially), with the old parts likely unsaleable... and that stinks.
If 26 is continued to be fully supported, I don't care if 650b is introduced but if 26 gets ditched on the whim of the manufacturers... that's another matter

650b is what they're all betting on now. The market is saturated and a bit stagnant for new kit and it's at the point where people are better off buying a year or two old models that are just as great as brand new models but a fraction of the price. So the answer is to push something that forces new kit. 29 is the ideal for new kit with a benefit, but it's too much of a change especially for our twisty little European trails. 650b is of barely much benefit but a lot more people seem content to give it a go, so it's a winner... so long as 26 dies, as far as manufacturers are concerned.

It's just that there will be very few "standard" mid to high end full suspension bikes for you to buy next year. manufacturers are conspiring to wipe them out.

The market goes through phases where we're told what the next big thing is. Ten years ago, our Fox Float suspension and hydraulic discs were new fangled, game-changing technology. Since then we've had a proliferation of 35lb all mountain bikes, clever platform damping systems that managed to hide all manner of suspension sins and then shock leverage technology got clever. Short of re-invention there's nothing groundbreaking on the horizon that could be applied at all price points, so it's no wonder that 29" and 27.5" wheel sizes have been marketed - especially as 29"ers haven't set the world alight over in Europe in quite the way big companies expected.

I'm not planning on buying another bike for a long time yet. If I do run out of tyres, then I daresay someone will still make them in 26" for me. Likewise the same is true for the rims.

It's not as if you can't find non-tapered steerer forks right now is it?

I think your right "rave reviews" get the ca$h tills ringing, it also pays for printing, editing, it gets the manufacturers wheels turning and the whole process evolves into something else,

I'm no expert on the bike industry but I do know that the lucrative secondhand market created by forums such as this and many others has meant that bikes don't rot away in garages un used and un loved they are sold and moved on, which is great for the Rider, but not so good for the industry.

It's like kick starting the banking sector but for the biking industry ?

Yep shimano have long since stopped better taper bb but tbh my ti hardtail has a un55
The weight is not that much of an issue tucked in the middle of the bike ,

Forks , rims will be worst items if supply drops off at a normal price

Partly depends on how long you keep bikes
My 10 year old fsr has parts that are unavailible

Is there a market though

Really? Yes, and there always will be. Organisations like CRC are founded on after market sales. Today, the % of bikes out there requiring replacement parts or upgrades is at worst 80% 26er.

Even if other wheel size does indeed take off, it will be years before providing 26" bits becomes commercially unviable.

Bike manufacturers are doing this to expand sales (not restrict) by diversification. So you honestly think they all sit around a table and 'conspire' against us or simply try to compete against rival bike manufactures who happen to make 650b?

As has already been said, if the big boys wont make parts that people need then there are plenty of chinese companies that will

They wont give a shit about 'maximising revenue'. They will gladly take over the market with smaller margins

Who will lose out?

It's not as if you can't find non-tapered steerer forks right now is it?

because there is still a number of bikes not using tapered headtubes.

find 1" forks, find old style 1 1/4" forks, find short forks for a 63mm or 70mm hard tail. Or how about 27x1.25 wheels and tyres. There are a huge number of standards that get ditched, have a look how international disc tabs are disappearing rapidly.

Really? Yes, and there always will be. Organisations like CRC are founded on after market sales. Today, the % of bikes out there requiring replacement parts or upgrades is at worst 80% 26er.

CRC, Planet X, Merlin can supply cheap because usually they are selling old stock, grey imports, and OEM parts. They are not selling aftermarket forks. Of the people i know very very few ever replace forks, there is a market but it isn't really that big.

I'm trying to work out what headset my new frame will need. I've only ever had a normal one. New frame is tapered with an external lower and maybe an integrated top.
Total gobbledeedook.

Well Mrmo, thank you for a decent rebuttal, I shall revisit this thread in a few years and either thank you graciously, or be a gent and say nothing.

Opinions eh?

Biggest problem in the short term will be warranty replacements of 26" frames bought as frame only with decent forks and wheels in the build.

Once you move outside of the rarified air of MBR/STW, there's a good deal of folks for whom 26" has, and will continue to work perfectly.

I think you'll find there's a lot of us in here too. No intention of moving from 26" whatsoever. The 650b is a marketing ploy plain and simple. And the companies getting behind it are going to make loads from fickle consumers who believe what they are told and believe their lives really will improve if they 'upgrade'.

Some of us just sit and shake our heads. Even now the classifieds are awash with people selling off their 26" stuff to go nice and shiny 29". At at least 29" offers something different, albeit not much. 650b is a marketing move, an answer to a question consumers had no interest in asking.

The number of people affected by lack of 1x1/4 forks stopping is rather small compared to 1x1/8
And as pointed out above forks are not somthing many people change to
Often

Oh and if you mean 27x 1 1/4 tyres they are still easy 27 x 1 1/8 a bit harder but still only a few days to get
And it's a long time since either were current

kevj, parts will be available, not saying they won't just that getting good kit will be an issue.

To give some history i have a Bontrager Race, new in '97 and came with a 1" fork. within a couple of years the fork choice was down to Marzocchi or Magura, ( i replaced the Pace fork with a Magura) both in 80mm, a couple years more and the choice was Marzocchi at 100mm. basically unusable on a frame designed for 63mm forks. If i was to replace the forks now? I asked Magura if they had any spares if i serviced the fork, the response was if the fork works don't touch it as they have no parts for it.

I now the bike is old now, but the parts issue began years ago. haven't used the bike in 5-6 years....

I fitted it out with 8spd Middleburn square Taper, XT, etc. I can get 8spd but it won't be equivalent. I used ceramic rims, but they seem to have disappeared now.

My road bike is 9spd Campagnolo, i can get cassettes, but only Veloce, so nothing fancy.

I do have a Trek Top Fuel from 2010, which at the moment i can replace everything should i need to, but i don't it all works, (well the rear shock needs a service!!!! but not an issue yet)

I don't tend to buy a new bike every year, i don't tend to buy lots of bits, i just ride bikes into the ground then replace when dead.

Haven't bike companies been trying to sell bikes for years?

I didn't realise they had just woken up and thought "shit we better make some money"

I'll buy whatever bike I look of and feels right at the time. i enjoy riding marketing BS round the woods. Makes me smile.

Campy are very poor for ongoing surport , I'm more concerned about getting 10 speed record spares than 26" stuff for my mtb

Campy are very poor for ongoing surport , I'm more concerned about getting 10 speed record spares than 26" stuff for my mtb

what do you wan't? ergo springs? rear mechs? Campy are far better than Shimano on the spares score. There are a few WTF issues, like why they have stopped making freehub bodies for highend hubs that are only 6 years old and almost identical to the current hubs, but you can still get free hub bodies for cheap hubs that are older?

I wouldn't be concerned about this, but for the fact that the big S are dropping most of their 26 full sussers for 29ers. Will only be offering 26" on basic budget full sussers and downhill bikes afaik.. I realise that 29ers are flying out the door in the US but not here, despite that fact, they're pretty much not gonna sell a decent 26"trail bike from now on.
That concerns me.

Having spent 4 months waiting for record bb cups the other year and now its all going 11 speed can't see them carrying on to much longer with 10 speed stuff ,

It may now improve since chicken seem to be the official impoter , I've not tried getting anything this last year tbh

But just google record 9 speed and not a lot comes up there is lots of 8
Speed as old stock but not much 9
And your right with the odd wtf , campy mini v- brake block incerts were a total pain last year

650b is a marketing move, an answer to a question consumers had no interest in asking.

650b was driven by the consumer creating pancetti conversions in their garages to fit their 26" frames.
Similar to fat bikes in that its something that caught on as DIY project builds. There are a few guys on here with fatbikes.. but the manufacturers didn't make them by them.
Some manufacturers did some significant testing on the inbetweener platform, some found tangible benefits, some not. Some manufacturers jumped on the band wagon.. but regardless of how your look at it.. 27.5" bike are selling and there is plenty of NOS 2012 26" inventory available for customers that don't want to go middle sized but still want a brand new bike)... but the new bikes are still selling and not because consumers are forced to buy them.

We will likely see some new 26" wheeled bikes for next season, but manufactures probably spent their 2013MY time and budgets on 27.5 development.

This will certainly be a telling year for 27.5... but I wouldn't be concerned, you'll come round to 27.5 before the 26" stock runs out 😉

29 is the ideal for new kit with a benefit, but it's too much of a change especially for our twisty little European trails.

*bangs head on keyboard*

I wonder how much this is backfiring on the industry. Looking at a few of the replies above it looks like I'm not alone - I have a fs frame (turner flux) that for no rational reason I have got an urge to change but at the moment I'm hanging tight and keeping the money in my account. My bikes have always been trigger's brooms with gradual evolution but if I change wheel size now it means ditching even more components than usual. At the same time I don't want to spend on a new 26" frame if all the progress in the future in terms of tyres etc will be focussed on 650b/29er. So I'm doing the sensible (as in I don't actually "need" a new bike) thing and keeping the money in my pocket where usually I'd have made an unnecessary purchase by now.

This does seem a time of change though - disregarding wheel size my bike is also "behind the curve" on bolt through rear hub, press fit BB, numbers of gears (3X9) & tapered steerer. It all sounds like an expensive next step so I'm going to bury my head in the sand and stick with what I've got until it's proper worn out.

I wonder how much this is backfiring on the industry

It hasn't at all.

people who want new bikes are buying them. people who want spares are still buying them.

The people that are new to cycling far out way the people giving up because their local spec concept store doesn't do enough 26" tyres.

Golly gosh - what a lot of shizzle.

From my perspective I am completely convinced of the benefits of 29er wheels over 26 especially on tight twisting English, Welsh,Scottish trails.

26er stuff will be available for long enough. If you are worried - stockpile it a few rims and maybe a set of on sale forks will keep you going for a long while.

650b not sure yet, but I do quite like some of the new offerings fro
Santa Cruz and even Orange but it will be good to do back to back testing with 29er equivalents so Solo vs Tallboy or Five vs 29/5 to see which works best. There is certainly choice out there at the moment and surely choice is good.

As to the rest of the innovations -
Bolt thru, 142rear, PF BB (this really is horrific), headset standards (not really necessary)these changes are ongoing evolution some will survive, others won't. Ultimately even the newest stuff will die when we all move to something else in 15 years time (hover bikes???).

Just ride what you have, buy what you like, it will all be fine and the world will not end.

People are still buying but it seems slow. I saw another two 29ers at the weekend at the event I was at, but everyone else was still riding 26ers. I also saw a couple of 650bs at the LBS last week alongside 26 and 29 versions of the same bike

It will be interesting to see what people are riding at Mayhem this weekend, afterall can you actually get mud xin 650b yet?

Ok. Just read the article, and its seems to say to me that 26" [i]bikes[/i] are to be taken 'off the menu' but doesn't mention anything about 26" bike [i]parts[/i]. So, they're still gonna be available, and probably will be for as long people are buying them

We are reaping the whirlwind of our own folly.
We spend obscene amounts of money on the latest tech innovations.
The manufacturers have realised that there is a large cohort of riders who can, and will, part with large amounts of cash to be seen at the "bleeding edge" of mountain biking. All they are doing is exploiting the market opportunity and a large proportion of the market will obediently trot along behind forking out more cash to improve their riding by a negligible amount.
I agree with the comments re niche spares companies - look at the automotive market - I have a couple of 80's VW vans and can source almost every part I need, obsolete ones are being made and sold by enterprising companies who are doing very nicely out of it.
I do think the manufacturers are taking the piss, but we are entirely complicit.

I don't understand why people who are looking to buy a new bike are put off by all this. Just buy a bloody bike (any sized wheel - it'll still be fun) and stop being drama queens.

Wow - marketing try and force a product lifestyle through and make the old stuff obselete ...

I can't really see 26 dying - and next year there will be the next big thing. Please , will people just accept the wheel size arguement is about driving the sales of "units" ... and making the customer feel that the need the new and updated one.

Wheel size debate is great for the manufactures - they come up with some quasi performnace reason - and all of a sudden last years best thing is now passe. Frame , forks, tyres and wheels. Hell, sir, you may as well buy a new bike ...

27.5 - other than the above why ? Either it is an acceptance that 29ers are not the future, or the needs of the sales VP to make sure slaes continue to increase. And he, quite frankly, will no f*** all about the performance differences. The product manager will know all the differences. But after a couple of bottles of Pinot Noir, even he will tell you it is mainly smoke and mirrors ...

Hey it's just business, and the cool thing with business is it is a harsh environment of survival of the fittest, where only things that work will survive...

You see if 650 is a bad idea, if your wheel being 25mm taller is a crazy idea that does not work, then it will become extinct.

Ultimately the consumers make the choices... Otherwise we would be commuting on Sinclair C5s.

A lot of 650 and 29 complaints come from people who have already invested in 26, have plenty of life left in their 26er, but this does not make other sizes a bad idea.

I think it's good that the industry has moved away from a period of developing endless headset standards whilst poo-poo-ing 29ers (hello MBR) which was in my view changing things for zero benefit whilst being slow/resistant to something that does make a difference. And again if there was no market for bigger wheels, no money in it, it would just be a few bearded gents on surly karate monkeys.... The buying public have the ultimate vote.

[img] [/img]

Won't 26 just become the new niche?
It's probably a good idea as it'll force me to use all those half worn tyres I have littering the garage.

I don't understand why people who are looking to buy a new bike are put off by all this. Just buy a bloody bike (any sized wheel - it'll still be fun) and stop being drama queens.

There is a difference between want and need (as much as anything in a leisure activity is a need!). I think it is probably reasonable for someone with no need but a passing interest in buying something new to take the current "resetting" of standards as a moment to pause and continue to use what they already have and is still perfectly serviceable. If I truly "needed" a new bike (my old one cracked, got stolen and or fell down a bottomless crevasse) it would be quite fun making the decision with a few more options than normal.

The above still does not take away from the fact that as a bloke with a disposable income (but not of an endless quantity) and a passing interest on spending it on unnecessary bike porn, I'm not bothering until the standards settle down and the bike industry has not benefited from the cash in my pocket for a while. But don't worry, it's not giving me sleepless nights 😉

It's funny reading the microcosum UK perspective. Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider. What you see at the last Gorrick race isn't the real world. The industry has killed 26" for 100% marketing reasons. The guys who missed the 29" train were pissed with low 26" sales and something had to be done and 650b was the solution and your nice 26" lost 25% it's resale overnight. Still think new top end stuff will be made for 26" or a while? I doubt it. Fox alone are not making any 26" SC forks after 2014. I heard that 26" Enduro S-Works are going for near half in California yet the dealers could sell 5x the 29" version if they could get stock. The times they are a changin.

It's almost as if a lot of the general public don't actually realise that the rider makes a lot more difference than the bike. Ah...

Remember, though, most buyers of mountain bikes rarely use them. It's about buying into something (fairly expensive), riding it twice and leaving the bike in the garage forever.

I've heard that UK bike sales have moved towards road and 'hybrid'/city bikes in recent years and bike shops are doing more work on such bikes. This actually makes sense, considering where people use them.

The bike industry isn't alone though. Look at cars. Cars are 'improved' year-on-year with more (often unnecessary & unused)gadgets, 'bigger', 'faster' (but no faster point-to-point, especially when the cars are already fast), more 'sporty'(but often less fit-for-purpose for real roads). Motorbikes are similar. Extremely fast bikes are made faster, despite almost no riders being able to make use of the added performance.

The only spares problem would be tyres and rims, and I doubt they will even be a problem for some time yet as there's so many 26in bikes out there that 26in tyres are gonna be around for a long time, yes even decent ones.

The thing about 650B forks is that they work perfectly well with a 26 wheel, clearance is fine and the difference in A2C is minimal, it's almost within the same realms of differences between manufacturer at the same travel and headset cups so the fork thing is pretty much a non-issue as you'll still be able to fit a newer fork should your old 26in one die a horrible un-fixable death.

It's funny reading the microcosum UK perspective. Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider. What you see at the last Gorrick race isn't the real world. The industry has killed 26" for 100% marketing reasons. The guys who missed the 29" train were pissed with low 26" sales and something had to be done and 650b was the solution and your nice 26" lost 25% it's resale overnight. Still think new top end stuff will be made for 26" or a while? I doubt it. Fox alone are not making any 26" SC forks after 2014. I heard that 26" Enduro S-Works are going for near half in California yet the dealers could sell 5x the 29" version if they could get stock. The times they are a changin.

Whilst the race results are pretty irrelevant, as the quick riders are quick regardless of wheelsize, the rest is pretty much spot on.

Specialized in the US is a little different to the ROW and their obsession with 29's for everything, but as I said in another thread, 26" is done now. Once this new product lag is over, a lot of you are going to be very upset.

Fox are not alone in not making any 26" forks after 2014.

A little insider told me with SC since the Bronson came out, 27.5" & 29" wheeled bikes account for over 90% of their sales now. They had seen a steady decline in 26" sales for the past 12 months.

 

the quick riders are quick regardless of wheelsize

This is the whole point.

A slow, overweight weekend rider with a low skill level is not going to be transformed by a change from 26" to 650b wheels.

Fast riders are fast riders. Top XC racers are looking for any advantage they can find, which may be with 29er wheels, and will also ride the bike that their sponsor provides.

A little insider told me with SC since the Bronson came out, 27.5" & 29" wheeled bikes account for over 90% of their sales now. They had seen a steady decline in 26" sales for the past 12 months.

If it does go full steam ahead as predicted it will be interesting to see how long it takes for those new sales to mean that 650b bikes on the trails outnumber 26in, cos even 90% of new sales is a tiny % of total bikes already in circulation.

are we talking a few years or decades there*?

*obviously at the high end/racing etc it will be quicker, but that again is a tiny % of people riding bikes on the trails.

Once this new product lag is over, a lot of you are going to be very upset.

I think the upset is not from people thinking their kit is going to be obsolete, its the [b]being told[/b] their kit is obsolete by the industry, when it still works perfectly for their needs.

All my MTBs are 26 at the moment, but then some of them are 15-20 years old now and still get regular use, at some point I'm sure I'll end up buying a bike with different size wheels, that wont upset me, after all it'll be another bike 🙂

Capitalism dictates that if there's a demand for a product, then someone will supply it.

So the manufacturers can try and foist on us what they like. But as countless threads on the subject prove, a lot of people still want 26" parts, and have no desire whatsoever to switch to 29/650B. So there's the demand.

The marketing departments can try all they like to make us ride 29ers/650b/Whatever's next, but its the accounts dept that will have the final word. And if people want 26" parts, then anyone who wants to stay in business better supply them! Or someone else will.

Wheel size was never going to be the rider's choice. 29er was a "new" standard siezed upon by big manufacturers looking for a method of staying on top during recessionary times. It wouldn't have mattered whether they made bicycles or ironing boards. Create obsolesence and you drive a market. Simple. To big business it matters not if 29ers are faster on a race course, if we stayed 26 races would still take place ( Cue seperate events for 29 or 27.5 "formula" racing, with retro 26 classes). For those who "need" the latest greatest and best, they will jump ship and buy for sure and new bike sales will grow.
650b becoming the new std. for "ordinary" mtbs is, in my view a far bigger change for the worlds sale of bicycles than ever 29 is (was?) a marketing and salesman's dream, a bullet in the head for the average, weekend riding, enthusiast.
It's a brave move, but I for one, who doesn't have a huge disposable income and although the n+1 theory works for me, like my bike to work for me and last, via upgrades and maintenance.
At 53 now, I have probably one or two bikes left to buy, before I pedal off into the sunset.
I'd best go buy some tyres for the 26er, so I can continue to enjoy my "inferior" bike for another year or two, before I have no choice but to buy a 28er. 🙄

Having seen the Ibis Mojo news on the front page this morning, I have to commend Ibis for getting it absolutely right.

Yes, you can have either 27.5" or 26" on the same bike. The choice is down to the consumer. With that, Ibis have promoted the Mojo way up into my dream bike list.

More of this, please.

Wheel, rim, tire and suspension makers have also tooled up to supply the demand. SR Suntour, for example, is introducing an entire new fork line for 650B.

BS to get us to upgrade
My orange 5 seems to be near unbreakable - well by me anyway- the geometry is largely unchanged since i got mine hence they need to make it obsolete to get me to buy something new

It has F all to do with anything else

Will it work ...who knows but I will not be upgrading to 650 b in a hurry tbh

What a lot of extremist radicalism and speculation this subject promotes.

This church of Mtb is a broad church. Thankfuly we don't all have to same needs or same belief systems. We are a highly varied bunch with highly varied bikes and components.

If you serious believe the hype that marketeers attempt to pedal about the demise of a wheel size, then stop and think sense.. And think about the following.

Brake disk widths and diameters
Bar widths
Fork travel
Shock eye to eye lengths
Tyre widths
Seatpin diameters
Headset sizes
Oh and don't forget... We are all different sizes too... Some of us are litte over 4' and others are way over 6'.
Oh and let's not forget... Some of you ride fast flat smooth rolling hills.. Whilst others ride knarly rockfests and others huck hop and drop.
20" 24" 26" 27.5" and 29" have all been manufactured and widely used tyre sizes for decades...

This is a highly varied and broad church. Don't believe those radicalised extremists who bestow their narrow belief of what our religeon of real mtb'ing is all about.

And remember that this world of ours is ruled by chaos, not marketeers.

Enjoy life... We only get one each.

I''ve largely ignored the wheel size debate and have just bought a new frame, although admittedly it can take 650b by changing the drop outs.

I'll continue running 26 inch for the foreseeable future because that what my wheels and forks are. It's also ha st to be able to swap wheels and tyres between my other bikes. The choice doesnt bother me, it's having something forced on me that does.

The industry has never been good at standards; ISCG didn't last long, headsets and bottom brackets are a joke, IS disc mounts are dead etc. I think parts will still be available for a while yet and there will be a strong second hand market..you only need to look at the guys on Retrobike keeping some mega old stuff going.

Seen this all before. The arguments on this site about flat bars vs riser and vees vs hydro were just as vociferous and bitter.

Most times people realise that there are benefits or see which way the winds blowing and act accordingly. I can see that now the geometry's sorted 29ers make sense for a lot if the riding a lot of us do, and that there's a role for 605b for those for whom 29 is just a wheel size too far.

My next bike will most likely have bigger wheels than the one I'm riding today, TBH I've got other things more important to worry about

I reckon it was the main topic at Bilderberg Watford 😕

Ultimately the consumers make the choices...

once they've been told what to buy.

It's funny reading the microcosum UK perspective. Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider. What you see at the last Gorrick race isn't the real world. The industry has killed 26" for 100% marketing reasons.

all the way to 7th? The last Gorrick race is [u]our [/u]real world - the Oregon Enduro isn't. It's all relative. Nice to see that we're not quite as gullible in the UK.

when I start seeing more 27.5" and 29" bikes on the UK trails than 26", I'll maybe start thinking about changing but at the moment I have three 26ers to keep on the road that I'm perfectly happy with.
I also buy quite a few parts in the second hand bike parts market, which must hurt the bike and parts companies - perhaps that is what this is all about - sales of new/ upgraded parts suffering because of the burgeoning sales of second hand parts.

all the way to 7th? The last Gorrick race is our real world - the Oregon Enduro isn't. It's all relative. Nice to see that we're not quite as gullible in the UK.

The human engine is also quite important.

Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider.

How far down the results page do you have to go to find a rider riding a bike they bought with their own money rather than a rolling advert?

when I start seeing more 27.5" and 29" bikes on the UK trails than 26", I'll maybe start thinking about changing

I think this is a fairly moot point - surely it's only the bikes being ridden around the UK trails that are new in the last 12months to the current rider (bought new or 2nd hand) that indicates the UK's current purchasing choices? I agree though that the wheel size they are using probably makes the square root of diddly squat to their performance or their enjoyment.

I think this is a fairly moot point - surely it's only the bikes being ridden around the UK trails that are new in the last 12months to the current rider (bought new or 2nd hand) that indicates the UK's current purchasing choices?

I agree. I still don't see many 29ers out on my local trails, but the few [b]new[/b] bikes I've seen over the last year have almost all been 29ers, and that includes both brand new and new to the rider but second-hand.

The fact of them matter is that there is a slump in the bike industry and fewer new biies are being sold, but the ones that are being sold are those with the bigger wheels. As more 29er frames and spares start to appear on the second-hand market this is just going to accelerate further.

26er is far far from dead (I hope), but the fact is that it is set to become an older standard and more riders will jump ship as this happens; whilst new entrants to the sport will be buying what's available in bike shops and what is getting positive reviews in the press, i.e. the latest new thing whether it be 29er or 650b/27.2".

I've only seen one 650b bike so far and that was recently at Afan Forest in Wales. I expect to see more as time goes by whether I like it or not. The process will not happen quickly as we don't replace bikes that often and road cycling is seen as the more attractive option to many new entrants to the sport at this time.

We are also just one part of a worldwide market and although our buying habits have some influence over the manufacturers we have to accept that what is selling well in the USA is often what ends up in our LBS.

Personally, I saw value in 29er bikes alongside 26er in our sport, both offering different advantages in certain conditions and offering more options for performance gains. 650b/27.2" I feel is a standard too far.

I'm certainly not going to worry about this, after 20years riding i've seen many changes come and go, but for me i'll be sticking with 26er and 29er for now.

surely it's only the bikes being ridden around the UK trails that are new in the last 12months to the current rider (bought new or 2nd hand) that indicates the UK's current purchasing choices?

I'm not too bothered what people are buying now. It's what's supported in the future that I'm bothered about - what people are actually riding rather than buying will tell you more about that.
Maybe I'm not like the majority of consumers and maybe I'm a moderately late adopter but I have some capacity for independent thought and decision so I'll wait until the bandwagon gets full before I jump on it.

Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26" rider.

What about Fort William? Both Men and Women's races won with 26" wheels.

So are DJ, 4X and DH bikes all moving to 650b too?