[Closed] What new 'enduro' bike?

Which is why I said "try" and to use something you know and relate to, like your current bike in order to make an approximation. If I'm spending thousands of pounds on something online I'll do as much as I can to understand what I'm buying.

But how?

Let's say your current bike has a leverage ratio of 1:2 and a slightly rising rate curve. Now lets say the bike you're looking at is 1:1.9 and a linear curve (assuming that info is even available), the chainstays on the new bike are 8mm shorter and the BB is 5mm lower. The seat angle is 0.5deg steeper and the reach is 10mm longer.

What's the implications of all that? Rides better or worse?

But how?
Let's say your current bike has a leverage ratio of 1:2 and a slightly rising rate curve. Now lets say the bike you're looking at is 1:1.9 and a linear curve (assuming that info is even available), the chainstays on the new bike are 8mm shorter and the BB is 5mm lower. The seat angle is 0.5deg steeper and the reach is 10mm longer.
What's the implications of all that? Rides better or worse?

Yeah, but what colour is it?

I guess I'm much less of an expert but I'm amazed that anyone can write off a bike based on a 1cm difference in TT length.

1cm here, 1 cm there, they all add up and can make a big difference to how a bike feels. You don't know if that buyer has already ridden a bike with a similar reach, or slightly longer and found it on the cramped side of things...

FWIW - you being 5'8" on a small, I would say you have ordered the wrong size.

My wife is 5'9" on a large Nomad. Size for size, they are very similar between the Nomad & Capra. A small is going to be dwarf sized. Medium for sure.

The old Pitch used to be quite a long bike, for it's time (in reach).

FWIW - you being 5'8" on a small, I would say you have ordered the wrong size.

I'm inclined to agree, I'm 5'9.5" (the half is very important 😉 ) and I got a large. It suits me but I think the small is pushing it for 5'8".

On the medium,from center of pedal axle to center seat rail is 840mm at the bikes minimum stock(due to 150mm dropper ) pedaling height-this may give you a gauge to compare with your pitch.My ride height using this is 870mm - ie seatpost is 30mm out of frame.

Hmmm, I was just going by the recommendations on the YT site, which says up to 5'9 you would want a small. I'm more 5'7.5 than 8 but having second thoughts about the small now, arggh!!

poisonspider

FWIW - you being 5'8" on a small, I would say you have ordered the wrong size.

I'm inclined to agree, I'm 5'9.5" (the half is very important ) and I got a large. It suits me but I think the small is pushing it for 5'8".

[i]Gets offended when I criticise his bike, sarcastically dismisses slight differences in geometry as being irrelevant....ignores bike companies size chart and needs to go a size up on bike....advises others to do the same.[/i]

Oh the ironmongery.

Can we stop all the bitching please? Ta. 🙂

The reach on a medium pitch is 446mm - on a small Capra it's 400 (or 422 on a medium). Hmmm.....

Hey it's not you're thread..... 🙂

It is now! 🙂

I'm 5'8" and based on the geo alone i'd at least go for the medium.

However i've also ridden and owned a bike that was similar length and reach to their large so it's possible I could even ride that.

It's all down to personal taste and how you like your bike to fit in the end though.

My mate's 5'8 and very happy on a medium Capra.

If you care about the kinematics, look at this: http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/young-talent-capra-2015.html

It's a good design!

If you wade through the posts on Pinkbike you end up realising that if your normally a small you need to buy a medium YT.

So I would buy a Large since I normally ride a Medium.

So yes, you may want to change your order. Getting a frame that's too small wont make it more manoverable, it will just make it too small.

I'm 5 10 and ride a Large Capra (with 35mm stem). I have ridden medium and it felt too short for me with a 50mm stem. Seat was miles in the air at full extension too.

I love the Capra. Its hands down the best/most capable bike I've ever owned In 22 years of mountain biking

Definitely a medium grum!

It's all down to personal taste and how you like your bike to fit in the end though.

I like my Pitch but just fancied something a bit shorter/newer/lighter, but then it seems the medium Capra is a reasonable amount shorter anyway.

I'm 5'8 1/2". Sat on a large Capra which felt good for length, though I'd have probably got a medium. Would not even consider a small. Issue you might have with a medium Capra is the saddle height being too high with the 150mm reverb depending on your leg length.

Grum, you're Hebden based aren't you? May be cheeky and ask for a quick bounce on the capra whichever size you get 😉

Cheers DeeW. Yes DBW - no problem. It's gonna be at least a month before I get it though.

I've emailed them to ask about switching to a medium.

Gets offended when I criticise his bike, sarcastically dismisses slight differences in geometry as being irrelevant....ignores bike companies size chart and needs to go a size up on bike....advises others to do the same.

Oh the ironmongery.

Firstly, I'm not offended if someone doesn't like the Capra, I'm genuinely not arsed either way.

Secondly, I haven't dismissed the significance of geometry changes. In fact I spent hours constructing a CAD model of the Capra in medium and large sizes to superimpose over my outgoing Orange 5 to see what differences there were. This was more about fit than trying to make a judgement on the ride characteristics though.

Thirdly, the YT website has a disclaimer basically saying sizing is a personal thing at the end of the day so you don't have to listen to us!

Fourthly, my 'advice' (which they are perfectly capable of ignoring) is based on having ridden a large for a year and having briefly had a go on a small. I'd say that's pretty reasonably well informed.

Finally, my issue with what you are saying has always been the premise that you can comment negatively about a bike (any bike not necessarily the YT) based on some bullshit about being able to read a bike's dymanics etc based on the static geometry numbers. Especially when it's couched in a 'I know better than those useless corrupt magazine numpties' attitude.

Now, unless you can convince me you're Nico Vouilloz or Greg Minnaar or similar, I suspect you're just talking your game up a bit.

Now, unless you can convince me you're Nico Vouilloz or Greg Minnaar or similar,

How very dare you. Jimjam used to work in CRC

I used to work in a petrol station, doesn't make me an expert on cars! 🙄

Some very po faced and serious (boring) cyclists on here.

Get a test ride, if you can't then take a punt....that's the joy of bikes, they all ride differently.
So what if the top tube is slightly short....fit a 5mm longer stem and move the saddle back another 5mm.....there you go, you've just gained 10mm more TT.

Some of the comments....'l only ride horst link'.....'l used CAD to superimpose the geometry over my old bike'.....jesus wept, you guys are missing out....seriously.

There are so many good bikes and so little time (and money) to own them all!.....i currently have a DW/maestro but I've had linkage driven single pivot....I'd like to try Horst....I'd like to try VPP....I'd like to try an Orange-5 etc

This thread has descended into another example of why I don't ride with others and am loathe to call myself a MTBer, as a group we really are a sad sad bunch.

Anyway, the Capra looks great....this obsession with having a bike so long you can do very little other than sit in the middle of it like a sack of spuds will pass I'm sure, at the moment marketing is leading design and the cash cow is Enduro so that's why we've got what we've got so to speak.
Be interesting to see who will be the first manufacturer to break ranks and move away from silly short chain stays and ridiculously long front triangles.

grum - Member
Very tempted to stick one of those new blue Lyrik Capras on my credit card. I don't even care if it's not that amazing, I just think it looks cool.

Are you sure you know what you're doing? That's a heck of a lot of money just to spend on something that "looks cool"

I'd be drawing it up in CAD/comparing kinematics/checking leverage ratios first.... 😉

You know what [i]deviant[/i], you're absolutely right. I agree with you entirely!

'l used CAD to superimpose the geometry over my old bike'.....jesus wept, you guys are missing out....seriously.

(In my defence I only did the CAD thing cos I was crapping it that I'd spunked my money on the wrong size, plus it was a slack day at work)

Are you sure you know what you're doing? That's a heck of a lot of money just to spend on something that "looks cool"

Nope I have no clue - I just acted on impulse. It's what everyone does really, some people are just better at convincing themselves they've made a logical evidence-based decision.

🙂

5. We rationalize purchases we don’t want

I’m as guilty of this as anyone. How many times have you gotten home after a shopping trip only to be less than satisfied with your purchase decisions and started rationalizing them to yourself? Maybe you didn’t really want it after all, or in hindsight you thought it was too expensive. Or maybe it didn’t do what you hoped, and was actually useless to you.

Regardless, we’re pretty good at convincing ourselves that those flashy, useless, badly thought-out purchases are necessary after all. This is known as post-purchase rationalization or Buyer’s Stockholm Syndrome.

The reason we’re so good at this comes back to psychology of language:

Social psychologists say it stems from the principle of commitment, our psychological desire to stay consistent and avoid a state of cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort we get when we’re trying to hold onto two competing ideas or theories. For instance, if we think of ourselves as being nice to strangers, but then we see someone fall over and don’t stop to help them, we would then have conflicting veiws about ourselves: we are nice to strangers, but we weren’t nice to the stranger who fell over. This creates so much discomfort that we have to change our thinking to match our actions—i.e. we start thinking of ourselves as someone who is not nice to strangers, since that’s what our actions proved.

So in the case of our impulse shopping trip, we would need to rationalize the purchases until we truly believe we needed to buy those things, so that our thoughts about ourselves line up with our actions (making the purchases).

The tricky thing in avoiding this mistake is that we generally act before we think (which can be one of the most important element that successful people have as traits!), leaving us to rationalize our actions afterwards.

Being aware of this mistake can help us avoid it by predicting it before taking action—for instance, as we’re considering a purchase, we often know that we will have to rationalize it to ourselves later. If we can recognize this, perhaps we can avoid it. It’s not an easy one to tackle, though!

I've ridden quite a lot of bikes and I enjoyed riding them all in different ways. None of them were shite, some just weren't set up very well for me. If I really hate it I'll sell it but I doubt I will.

Nope I have no clue - I just acted on impulse. It's what everyone does really, some people are just better at convincing themselves they've made a logical evidence-based decision.

😀

Grum - I'm 5ft 8in and the large Capra was the right length for me (but too tall).

I think the small might be a mistake. You can always get a short stem on the medium.

Nope I have no clue - I just acted on impulse. It's what everyone does really, some people are just better at convincing themselves they've made a logical evidence-based decision.

Glad it's not just me then 🙂

I bought my reign because I liked the colour (and it was recommended by someone whose opinion I respect) but mainly the colour.

Yup I've emailed and asked about switching to a medium. I can't see it being a problem as the delivery estimate on the medium isn't until the 9th December.

Get an Orange as that's what you really want. How about this?

http://www.drakescycles.co.uk/m1b114s377p5195/ORANGE_Five_Pro_MK2_Sterling_Silver_2015

Pikes, Reverb, Pro2 etc. 😉

You should also check out the Alpine 5. I went from a 26" 5 to the 29" and really rate it. If you're near Skipton you're welcome to have a go.

Don't care if it's too short,, mmmmm........

[img] [/img]

Funniest post I have read for ages on here

Thanks to Deviant
Some very po faced and serious (boring) cyclists on here.

Get a test ride, if you can't then take a punt....that's the joy of bikes, they all ride differently.
So what if the top tube is slightly short....fit a 5mm longer stem and move the saddle back another 5mm.....there you go, you've just gained 10mm more TT.

Some of the comments....'l only ride horst link'.....'l used CAD to superimpose the geometry over my old bike'.....jesus wept, you guys are missing out....seriously.

There are so many good bikes and so little time (and money) to own them all!.....i currently have a DW/maestro but I've had linkage driven single pivot....I'd like to try Horst....I'd like to try VPP....I'd like to try an Orange-5 etc

This thread has descended into another example of why I don't ride with others and am loathe to call myself a MTBer, as a group we really are a sad sad bunch.

wrecker

How very dare you. Jimjam used to work in CRC. Knows much more than either of those oafs.

Clearly you're still badly butthurt after getting put in your place. Sorry 😉

This thread has descended into another example of why I don't ride with others and am loathe to call myself a MTBer, as a group we really are a sad sad bunch

If you think that this place is representative of yer average MTBer, then you are quite deluded. The vast majority of my riding mates either have no interest, or haven't even heard of it.

Clearly you're still badly butthurt after getting put in your place. Sorry

Oh sorry, you're right, there were other people who put you in your place. As for poisonspider I think it's pretty obvious he's annoyed that I criticised his bike and has spent three pages trying to undermine a simple statement I made about my priorities when choosing a bike, which made a lot more sense than his.

Oh sorry, you're right, there were other people who put you in your place.

he's annoyed that I criticised his bike

I'm not being negative I'm being objective. I don't have a dog in this fight. Not attacking him but it was Glasgowdan (and someone else) who said the bike lacked class or was common. Poisonspider is focusing on disecting my statements because I'm not being subjective I'm being rational. If someone feels the bike is common, what can you say to that? They're a bit of a bike snob (but that's okay it's stw).

I'm sorry if I'm winding you up, if you want we can let it go and not mention hope or shimano brakes ever again.

You're not winding me up jimjam, you are however coming across a bit "internet expert". Is it really surprising some are getting defensive about bikes they have spent £3K on?
You wouldn't go into someones "new bike" thread and say "nah, that's shit, I don't like it" would you?

No, I wouldn't slate someone's new bike and that's not what I'm doing. This thread is someone contemplating a purchase so criticism of a possible contender is relevant. It's not slagging someone else bike choice, although it has turned into slagging someone else's rationale or bike buying process. If nothing else I'd say it's helping the op.

you are however coming across a bit "internet expert"

Nothing I wouldn't say to someone's face, but it's the internet. Honestly, you'd love me if you knew me 😛 (that may not be true).

My 16 inch HT with 140mm forks would be some people's idea of a nightmare (i'm 5' 9" by the way, so probably looks like a circus bear riding a bike)....i love it though, love the ease with which it changes direction, love how easy it is to get in the air, love the confidence inspiring steel girder like construction that allows me to ride like a pillock and get away with it....always fun at places like BMCC, Antur, BPW, FoD etc and trying to chase down the full-on DH bikes....not always successfully i might hasten to add!

Its a laugh and thats what bikes are for me, i have no intention of entering Enduros on it....i occasionally find a local DH race with a HT category and have a competitive outing in that respect.

I have a Trance with 160mm forks for the serious side of this sport where everyone seems to compare themselves and their bikes to each other and pick holes in millimetres of difference in geometry....part of me hates myself for getting suckered into it, i was happy with HTs but i have ridden FS before and i'll concede they are easier/better over truly horrendous terrain....only thing i've done as a two fingered salute to the MTB gods is ditch the Rockshox suspension it came with and go full in with X-Fusion front and rear...always gets some looks that one!...almost like people arent expecting me to get down the hill in one piece with such 'inferior' chassis tech on my bike, haha!

Erm...have you read the posts?

JJ

How many times?? Give me strength.

(CAPS means shouting right?)

I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY BIKE!!!

I DON'T CARE IF NO-ONE LIKES MY BIKE, IT'S ALL PERSONAL CHOICE AFTERALL!!!

What is irritating is the nonsense you spout about being able to judge a bike by its static numbers. All that crap about assessing it's dynamics and kinematics. I bet you can't even explain the difference between the two without Googling it. And to then go on to say all magazine reviewers at crap riders who simply write reviews based on fear and bribery. Wtf?

God you're obtuseness is exhausting. You have such an over inflated sense of your own ace-ness that you can't see you talking rubbish. When you have an opportunity to prove yourself you bottle it by saying you not going to dignify it with a response. I suspect deep down you know it's garbage.

OK, put a sock in it you two, or take it outside......

Meanwhile, back in the real world of riding bikes for fun. I have realised that it doesn't take long to get on with a new bike even if its different to your old bike.

I found I adapted pretty quickly. I discovered this when testing a few new bikes for long weekends.

It starts with a quick spin - that just leaves you thinking the new bike is odd / different

Then you stop and adjust the various bits you can tweak, like bar/saddle position, suspension settings etc. and ride it some more.

Then over a day or three you adapt your riding a bit. Small differences can be adapted to. You can even put different tyres on and change the way it feels.

If you stick to just one geometry or one style of riding I think your quite likely to miss out on discovering new things - some may be better, some just different.