I currently ride a Whyte G150, however never really got to grips with it.
So Im going to change the frame (sell it) and buy another frame utilising my left over components hopefully. I purchased some brand new 36`s last year and im keen to keep those on whatever I go for. At the moment I feel that all that is going to suit is a Alpine 160 however this is going to be my ONE bike so fully expect to do the odd downhill day and also the odd,,very rare,, infact really rare 50miler (Trans Cambrian 2nd Day) but I do a fair bit of XC now.
Are there any suggestions, ideally im after something which has a better clearance off the floor than my Whyte did?
Did the same with my Trance, 160mm forks, the 158mm rear travel mod, wide bars and 35mm stem....it seems single minded but despite the mods it still pedals well, climbs well and descends like a demon.
I love it, it's very light too and would recommend it to anyone looking for a 'do it all bike'....
I've had a fair bit of experience looking for a 160mm do it all bike, having had an alpine 160 I found it too much bike most of the time, after 25-30km into on a long trail centre loop it used to get hard work.
I now have a SC Nomad which does everything I want well, and is very capable on a DH track, but previously had a Spesh Enduro and can say that the Enduro truly is the best all rounder I have had.
Whats the travel mod?
Liteville 301 mk 12.
A Mk 11 will also run 650b but with a higher BB and max 2.35 rear tyre (this is what I am using albeit with 150mm Pikes)
Canyon Strive
What don't you like about the G150? An Alpine won't be dissimilar I doubt.
Not that I think I did my Alpine much justice but it never felt amazing and on most trails was too much bike really, more really due to the long wheelbase I think.
I've currently got a 2015 Bronson and it is a great all rounder but I still have a hankering for a Nomad which was superb and with geometry numbers right in the sweetspot (for me at least!)
I was going to suggest the same as welshfarmer.
How often is the 'odd' downhill day? When you ride DH tracks, do you hit the big features?
A 160mm bike might be what you require for uplift days, but its a bit compromised everywhere else. of the current crop, the Transition Patrol looks very nice to me. I've got a Scout, so I would say that.
Banshee Spitfire is a 140mm bike, but takes a 160mm fork up front.
Shorter travel bikes are now incredibly capable. Some of them take longer forks so you could still use the 36 if it'll space down to 150mm. I don't know if they do that. So they're worth looking at too.
Well, what I did...
Bought one of these
Sold all the bits for £600ish - and there you have it, a great, relatively light 160mm frame from one of the best names in the business - and a brand that's going to be massive again soon for £1200.
Best bike I’ve ever owned.
What don't you like about the G150?
it really is low to the ground, and im forever clipping the ground,, plus want a change :), I never really got to grips with it aswell as I did my Orange Five.
How often is the 'odd' downhill day?
Probably 10+ days a year, trips to Antur, Revolution, BPW then the odd freeride park. I always do the black runs (apart from the rock drop at Antur)
Are Nomads good for climbing?
That Liteville looks interesting
I second the santa cruz nomad mentioned above. bought a second hand frame a few months ago (there's a few to be had on pink bike and the like)and I love it. climbs incredibly well for a bike of it's travel, gets along the flats nicely and feels playful (not the sluggish 'big bike' feeling of old) and is a hoot downhill. replaces the MK2 nomad I previously had and is noticeably better
Spesh Enduro or Kona Process 153?
Both have shorter rear ends and quite nippy handling and neither has a particularly low BB.
Canyon Strive, I use it in the alps, Wales and surrey hills (although I find my 26" stumpy more suitable for SH) . The XC mode makes it workable as a 'do everything ' bike but it really comes into its own in DH mode. It climbs pretty well and flies downhill . Whatever you choose will be a bit of a compromise obviously but I'f you're really riding a mixed bag of terrain it's better to be overbiked on the tame stuff than under biked on the rough stuff IMHO .
Is the shapeshifter with the Canyon new technology or are there older frames which do the same thing?
Answered that one myself
Whats the Kona like, last one i had was a coiler deluxe and i havent looked back since
it really is low to the ground, and im forever clipping the ground,, plus want a change :), I never really got to grips with it aswell as I did my Orange Five.
thats not going to change with most bikes these days, you'll just have to learn when not to pedal.
after similar deliberation i went with a kona process 153, it rules! so good downhill, jumps well and makes me feel way more confident than my ability! it pedals ok uphill but it doesn't fly up, I'm not the fittest guy alive though!
same old recommend what you own kind of thing though..
orbea?
starling cycles swoop?
bird aries?
radon?
Transition would probably be my fist stop if budget is not too much of an issue. If you've more then Yeti.
Bird Aeries and the Trance would be very easy to live with too.
Couple of folk mentioning Trance but wouldn't Reign be a better suggestion given the original post? 😕
On the same quest as OP and Reign is certainly high on my list
Most 160mm travel bikes pedal well these days, if you only have one bike or have a hardtail that is what I'd have.
If I had a downhill bike and a hardtail, I'd have a 120/130mm but slack thing.
I like my Reign, I can pedal it everywhere - pedals better than my old 2010 150mm Nukeproof Mega, it pedals MUCH better than my 07 SX Trail and it goes down like a bloody mini-downhill bike.
No love for an ibis mojo hd3 on here?
It's light, great on all day epics and equally capable downhill. And it won't snap like an intense or yeti.
I've been lucky enough to have a s works enduro, nomad and hd3 and I'd pick the hd3 every time.
Wait out for the new Orange 29er 16omm My guess a real all day everyday barnstormer
Blimey i always thought Orange was expensive but some of these are amazing. Quite a few here out my price range but look great.
My Whyte is now in pieces and ready for me to decide what to go for, ideally i want to spend sub £1000 used on the frame. I really like the Canyon Strive and also the Alpine still seems to have a soft spot the only reason i think is because i did my best riding on a Five, but looks like the Five AM (looks like the 160 version of the Five) frames are hard to come by.
I can't fault my Banshee Spitfire. Although it's 140mm at the back it has the geometry of a 160mm bike and runs a 150 or 160mm fork. 2013, 2014 and 2015 versions are all the same geometry (2013 doesn't have internal dropper routing or bottle bosses). 2016 has 6mm lower BB, fractionally longer reach, steeper seat tube.
Adjustable geometry with three position swappable dropouts, so you can change the angles by 1 degree and BB height by 12mm, so you can get it working best for how you ride. I've found the neutral setting works best for summer singletrack or long XC rides (more pedal clearance), low/slack for everything else (uplifts, enduro races, winter slideyness).
Compared to a lot of bikes you don't need to run much sag for it to feel good, I've found 25% works well for me, so you have more travel available than you think, and that combined with the anti-squat (hardly bobs when you pedal) means you don't catch pedals as often on other bikes with similarly low BB height.
Recently I've gone a bit more extreme with a Works -2 deg headset and fork shortened to 150mm (64 deg head angle!) Bloody brilliant.
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I can't fault my Santa Cruz Bronson. Although it's 150mm at the back it has the geometry of a 140mm bike and runs a 150 or 160mm fork. 2013, 2014 and 2015 versions are all identical (they all have internal dropper routing or useless bottle bosses. Who puts their bottle on the underside of the downtube FFS!). 2016 has a BB, something about reach, and it has a seat tube.
The geometry is always the same. Not great for climbing, not great for descending. You could fit an angle set if you wanted to slacken it off and lower the BB by 11.36mm but then you’d probably start swapping things around for different types of riding. For summer singletrack or long XC rides and everything else (uplifts, enduro races, winter slideyness) I find a point and shoot approach works.
Compared to a lot of bikes you don't need to run much sag for it to feel good, I've found loading up your camelbak with jelly babies and flapjacks helps make use of more travel than you think, and that combined with the anti-squat (a phenomenon 87% cyclists know nothing about) means you don't catch pedals as often on other bikes.
Recently I've gone a bit more extreme by riding it like a ****in’ animal. Bloody brilliant.
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The Nomad for the short demo was an awesome bike, mate tried that and the Bronson and the colclusion heart says Nomad, head (unless you have real mountains and lots of lifts) said Bronson, hugely capable bike. On my list for next bike.
I am liking the Bronson in general, but I'm having a mare with the bloody float X. Can't get it to feel right. The demo I have was perfect so I know it can be done but I'm buggered if I can get mine running sweet. Considering a PUSH tune.
Capra?
Has the travel and geo for big steep stuff but is light enough for all day riding
Some real world weights here and my mates Capra was the lightest I believe
http://enduro-mtb.com/en/poc-scottish-enduro-series-round-6-ae-rumble-jungle/2/
I'm on a 650b Enduro
Last bike was a Nukeproof Mega
If I had to buy something tomorrow it would be a Hightower
Demoed that, a nomad, Bronson and 5010 a few months back. Hightower blew everything else away. Ridiculous grip everywhere. Dispatched climbs with ease. Made techy sections feel like they weren't there. Ridiculously good up, down and along.
If I were going hightower, it would be in 29 flavour. The way I seem to go through tyres, no way am I ever touching plus!
I think from above its safe to assume that you have lots of choices and most are good, its really only your budget and component compatibility that is the question?
I ride a Patrol, love it, and it does most of what I want which is a mix of XC(15%), trail/AM(60%) and DH (25%) but I have friends who have just as much fun on SB6c's, Enduros, Bronsons and Nomads, modern 150/160mm bikes are really capable..
Regularly ride my Patrol on 50km sessions without too many issues but If I was ever to look at another frame (which is doudtful at the mo) then I would maybe consider the new Medrida one-sixty, Enduro, Canyon Strive or the Yeti SB6c.
Are Nomads good for climbing?
I rather like climbing, and I had a Nomad for a year. It's alright. It doesn't do anything terribly annoying, and will happily tolerate being spun up things at a decent rate. I started with a Vivid rear shock, which was not a great move for normal riding days - eventually swapped for a Monarch which improved matters a good deal. It wasn't a great fan of getting out the saddle, that didn't feel efficient [i]at all[/i] and it all felt a bit speed-limited going up. I went straight back from the Nomad to my preferred 29er hardtail on the same trails, and the difference in climbing prowess was remarkable - the hardtail was vastly better.
So yes, I reckon you'd happily say a Nomad is fine for climbing on, but with the caveat that it's fine by big full-sus bike standards rather than a swift and enthusiastic climber. 🙂
If I was ever to look at another frame (which is doudtful at the mo)
"at the mo" meaning "anytime in the next 3 months"? 😉
I can't fault my Santa Cruz Bronson...
Oi, Atkinson, No! Coming on here with all your skills and fitness and so much free time that you actually get to ride your bike - this is place is for armchair experts only. Be off with you, to Pinkbike! 😉
"at the mo" meaning "anytime in the next 3 months"?
I am a slave to temptation and fads.
Judging by what you will actually use it for, I would say something shorter travel, but with the right geometry is probably a better choice.
Most 160mm bikes are essentially great these days, they are just slightly shorter travel DH bikes from 4/5 years ago though. For someone self confessed to doing a lot more XC, riding a long 160mm bike with a 65 degree head angle is not going to be very interesting.
I'd be looking for something around the 130/140mm mark, but focus more on the other numbers. Buy the bike that suits the 95% of your riding, rather than the 5%.
I recently sold my 160mm bike (Patrol) & came from a Reign previously. They were both really good bikes, but there was no getting away from the fact they were also really big bikes, and I don't have the luxury of living in Wales & able to hit long, steep trails every week.
I ride a 130mm 29er now, I would hazard a guess i'm faster in 99% of situations. I will race DH on it, Enduro & trail ride. After a bit more time riding it, I think there's a good chance it will be faster at everything.
Climbing a 25lb trail bike is almost like cheating compared to a big 160mm bike too 🙂
Up until recently I only had the Nomad which does everything you require. I've ridden all the uplift venues you listed and more and it was faultless and super fun. I've since got a hardtail though, so use that more locally and when the weather is utterly crap. But the Nomad is pretty damn good at everything. The BB seems pretty low to me though so I would demo if you can, or maybe just learn to time your pedal strokes. Be careful second hand though as the bearings seem to be pretty dear for the Nomad, though it's free bearings for life if you're the original owner. You can also grease them regularly which will extend life.
If you're near the North West or ride North Wales you'd be welcome to a pedal on mine, it's a large.
No love for an ibis mojo hd3 on here?
I'll second that - rides like an XC bike uphill, and is more than enough bike for me downhill.
The 160mm game seems to have moved on quite a way from when I used to pootle around on a "big" bike. There's quite a few bikes out there that are up for being thrown around and won't leave you gasping on a long, hilly ride.
I guess I've finally embraced middle age by buying a mid-travel 29er and loving it...
I_did_dab - Member
No love for an ibis mojo hd3 on here?I'll second that - rides like an XC bike uphill, and is more than enough bike for me downhill.
Thirded here.. 🙂
Nomad seems out my price range, if i could get a Five which took 160 forks i think that would be perfect.
Failing that the others i would co sider are the Alloy Strive, Alpine and Alloy Bronson.
if i could get a Five which took 160 forks i think that would be perfect.
In that case, just buy anything. Get a cheap heavy Commencal, it'll probably impress you no end.
Dango....
The travel mod is to replace the standard 200x51 shock with a 200x57 one.
Same eye to eye length so straight swap but the extra 6mm of squish at the shock translates to something like an extra 18mm of travel at the back end. With a 160mm fork it effectively gives you a 160mm Trance, clearance no issue, I've done it, once it's back from the bike shop I'll post some pics.
How often is the 'odd' downhill day? When you ride DH tracks, do you hit the big features?A 160mm bike might be what you require for uplift days, but its a bit compromised everywhere else. of the current crop, the Transition Patrol looks very nice to me. I've got a Scout, so I would say that.
Banshee Spitfire is a 140mm bike, but takes a 160mm fork up front.
Shorter travel bikes are now incredibly capable. Some of them take longer forks so you could still use the 36 if it'll space down to 150mm. I don't know if they do that. So they're worth looking at too.
Would agree with this.
I had a Banshee Rune (160mm travel) and it climbed really well for a a big, long slack bike but there was no getting away from the fact that it was just that - a big, long, slack bike. On the right terrain it was bloody amazing but on the stuff that I rode most weeks, it was a bit dull because it just battered the tamer trails.
In the end I ended up riding my hardtail more and more so sold the Rune. I may accidentally have bought a DH bike too, which if I'm honest isn't necessary but is fun at places like Revo.
You mention that you do a fair bit of XC, so I'd be looking at something like a Spitfire as well (or other short travel bikes with big forks).
Another Spitfire fan/recommendation here.
I've had mine for 18 months now, currently running 160mm pikes (26"), superstar carbon wheels with Spec butcher/purg grid tyres.
I have a second set of wheels (flows on ProIIs) setup with dual ply tyres which I put on for uplift days and used for a week in Morzine this summer.
I've had mine in the 66 degree setting since I first got it - this matched the static HA form my blur - pedal strike was an issue so I switched to 165mm cranks. If you're transferring a 650b buildkit over, this should be less of an issue as the BB is 12mm higher.
The suspension is very active, I regularly use the climb switch on the ccdb inline shock when climbing, but very progressive too, so nice and supple over choppy terrain but keeps plenty in reserve for the big hits, I've only felt it properly bottom out once, when I came up short on a jump and caught the upslope, the resulting impact was hard enough to bend the saddle rails and make my eyes water 😯
I've got a -2 degree angleset waiting to be fitted. I'm also hoping to experiment with a change to 650b wheels and fork this year, mainly for ground clearance reasons but also to see if the change in wheelsize really will bring my rides to life or whatever marketing junk it is this week.
V2 frames seem to be going for 6-700 depending on condition/shock, I think there's one in the classifieds now.