And of course, there is more to language then communicating simple concepts or asking for a load of bread.
those who hate welsh nationalists
Remember, "hate" is when you think it's an odd outcome when Welsh artists who perform in Welsh are uninvited from a Welsh cultural festival that say it deals in "all aspects of the arts and culture in Wales", where most people don't speak Welsh, and talk about it on a bulletin board.
If you think that's hatred...
Welsh language festival - I think that just about covers it.
Anyway, I hear DM comments are the place for this faux outrage, or perhaps even the 'Chat' forum, unless there's a biking angle here?
Not necessarily on this thread politecameraaction tho the some on this thread cleary have no time for the nationists and repeats the tired old unionist tropes.
It’s a simple point but unfortunately it’s not a true point, no matter how many times you repeat it.
And in spite of your own repetition, ignores the fact that some copy on a website* isn't a contract proof read by lawyers. It's clearly, and quite inherently a Welsh language festival. Why are you so adamant that people should be allowed to compete in English. Why not go onto the world cup thread and complain that people ride e-bikes and take drugs, so the sport needs to be more representative and not pander to sober zealots?
They're not the first people to refuse to perform at the Eisteddfod, so it's barely even newsworthy.
*ironically bilingual
In Wales there are nationalists, and there are also language fascists, and the two groups aren't the same. Of course as usual the vast majority of speakers, supporters and even promoters are absolutely fine, but as always some people are dicks. I don't know if the Eisteddfod organisers are in that category, but they might be.
There are also people who resent Welsh promotion because they think it is excluding or diminishing them. There are also Welsh speakers who think the language promotion is all bollocks and resent it as well - I used to work with one.
The people who resent the promotion can sometimes get a bit paranoid about it and see grievous elitism everywhere they look. They might be right in some cases. However I am not sure this is one of them.
Welsh is the best language to learn for career opportunities in Wales.
some copy on a website
Well, specifically on the Eisteddfod's own website, where it describes itself. Of course, if your point is that you can't trust anything the organisers say...
Still, I can see why "inclusive" and "welcoming" would rub you up the wrong way:
Singing in English in Wales isn’t “Welsh culture” any more than a Full English and a pint of Carling served in a flat roofed pub is Spanish culture just because it’s served on the Costa del Sol.
Strong "a dog born in a stable isn't a horse" vibes, with the hilarious conclusion that Dylan Thomas's work isn't Welsh culture. 👏👏👏
Why are you so adamant that people should be allowed to compete in English.
If your read the article the artists aren't competing they were invited to perform. A huge difference.
She said the duo understood the language policy in terms of competing, but not in the context of inviting artists to perform, especially if the organisation was already aware of their lyrics.
A young Pavarotti sang in a choir at the eisteddfod in 1955. They sure didn't sing in Welsh, sadly anti English feelings and Welsh nationalism are on the increase but definitely not supported by the majority of the population. A bit strange that there's so much support for it on here. But then anti English sentiments are often expressed on this forum often from English posters. 🤷♂️
I've sang at the Eisteddfod twice, whilst at high school and in college.
Both times in English, not in competition.
Didn't get into any bother, though one young lady in the choir did get told to '**** off' by Rolf Harris. 1987 or 1988, can't remember which year!
EDIT. A quick Google suggests 1985.
If your read the article
Which, clearly most haven't otherwise they would realise their arguments have no merit.
Once again, why would you invite a bilingual singer to a festival if you're not prepared to accommodate them?
Which, clearly most haven’t otherwise they would realise their arguments have no merit.
Once again, why would you invite a bilingual singer to a festival if you’re not prepared to accommodate them?
You seem to be assuming that invite in this context means the same thing as if you were invited round for dinner.
In this case, it's two sets of people failing to come to an agreement in order to exchange services and/or money.
You seem to be assuming that invite in this context means the same thing as if you were invited round for dinner.
Er, no. I'm assuming it's because the organisers asked the artists to perform. If it was the other way round the can't really claim to have been invited can they?
Whether payment is involved is by the by, the organisers are still asking someone to change their performance to suit despite presumably knowing who they were before going out their way to sign them up.
Er, no. I’m assuming it’s because the organisers asked the artists to perform. If it was the other way round the can’t really claim to have been invited can they?
I'm not really familiar with the ins and outs of how venues go about booking bands, but I'd assume there's an element of venues asking performers if they'd like to perform and performers asking if they can perform at the venue. In this case it sounds like the venue asked the performers if they'd like to perform at their venue.
Part of the requirements were that they perform solely in the Welsh language which they wouldn't do so the arrangement was cancelled.
Anyway, this is me assuming there was a commercial element to this. It could be the act in question was performing for no other reason than the joy of it in which case, yes, it seems a bit rude.
However, if they were getting paid, then there's an element where you have to accept the people who are paying you might want you to adjust your act to fit in with their plans. Nothing wrong with that.
But then anti English sentiments are often expressed on this forum often from English posters. 🤷♂️
I've noticed it as well, and it's not only English posters, but it is something that they can pretend to be an expert on and argue on the internet. Keeps them safely off the streets, I suppose.
Yeah, I've always felt the English don't have enough national pride.
Far to retiring and hard on yourselves in general, I feel.
Competing in the Eisteddfods as a child were pretty tortuous occasions. It would drag on for hours and hours.
It's the Welsh equivalent of the Chelsea Flower Show - mired in tradition, although well-intentioned.
My brother supplies lighting/power etc and every time he swears 'never again'!
Personally, they're OK for tourists but there are a lot more progressive events around.
It would be like me going to a highland gaelic singing festival and claiming I could sing sunshine on leith because its scottish
I'd pay money to see the video of you turning up at the Mod, in all the gear, and doing that!
🙂
Er, no. I’m assuming it’s because the organisers asked the artists to perform. If it was the other way round the can’t really claim to have been invited can they?
You could invite a professional rugby player to a charity football tournament. Doesn't mean they can pick up the ball and do full contact tackles just because they're a rugby player. It's still someone's event and someone's rules.
Either way there's plenty of English* literary and singing festivals in Wales, Hay-on-wye , Cardiff, etc.
*international, but the point is they cater to a mostly English speaking audience. Complaining that a minority of people have a festival to celebrate their culture is like complaining that the MOBO's aren't representative of British ethnic demographics, or that Ant and Dec are being robbed as they've yet to win a BET award.
Well, specifically on the Eisteddfod’s own website, where it describes itself. Of course, if your point is that you can’t trust anything the organisers say…
No, I'm saying you're taking a very particular interpretation of the words used that it's fair to conclude wasn't their intention.
I’m saying you’re taking a very particular interpretation of the words used that it’s fair to conclude wasn’t their intention
It's not "particular" - it's very clear. It's pretty hard to mistake all aspects of Welsh culture for "only Welsh language culture".
And it's why the Welsh band who were invited to play were pissed off when they found that it's not an "inclusive" festival at all.
It’s not “particular” – it’s very clear. It’s pretty hard to mistake all aspects of Welsh culture for “only Welsh language culture”.
I know right, who's standing up for the microbial cultures in all of this. The festival should clearly have a prize for best lichen on Eryri. It's exactly what the website says after all.
I’m saying you’re taking a very particular interpretation of the words used
Not really. But people can look at the (pretty clear and uncomplicated) words for themselves and decide what their ordinary meaning in English is. 🤷♂️ Does the Welsh language text on the website bear a different sense?
Are you still saying that Welsh artists that perform in English are not part of Welsh culture? Is Benjamin Zephaniah not part of English culture because he writes in Patwa? Are the Ayoub Sisters not part of Scottish culture because they use Egyptian melodies in their work?
For 'Welsh Culture' you should read 'Welsh Language Culture' and tbh thats what they should write in the bumpf as everyone knows that this is the case.
I'm planning a visit this year.
TINAS - what about slime moulds - do they not get a place?
I have absolutely no idea what you're all still arguing about 🥴
I love Eisteddfod. I love Wales.
I love the fact that the Welsh are celebrating their identity.
I'm from North Manchester, I suspect that most working class people from Blackley, Moston, Collyhust, Newton Heath, Miles Platting and Harpurhey have more empathy with North Walians than we do with those from Chorton, Didsbury and Bramhall.🥴
TINAS – what about slime moulds – do they not get a place?
It's Wales, so they were washed away long ago in the rain / culture war.
A young Pavarotti sang in a choir at the eisteddfod in 1955. They sure didn’t sing in Welsh, sadly anti English feelings and Welsh nationalism are on the increase but definitely not supported by the majority of the population.
You're ignorant. You're talking very confidently about something you know nothing about. And in truth, you have little interest in. There are two completely separate events - a national eisteddfod (takes place in Welsh) and an international eisteddfod (which doesn't).
I don't have an anti-English sentiment. I was born in England. But I do have a very strong anti-British sentiment. A Britishness which is often synonymous with Englishness. Which is borne out of the British Empire. Which promotes an arrogant, bigoted and nasty view of the world. And which dominates British life.
But people can look at the (pretty clear and uncomplicated) words for themselves and decide what their ordinary meaning in English is.
I've had a look at http://eisteddfod.wales/about-us that you're quoting from.
The first sentence says...
"Held during the first week of August every year, the National Eisteddfod is a celebration of the culture and language in Wales.
...so that's pretty clear that it's Welsh language. It then later has the bit you've quoted...
"The Eisteddfod is the natural showcase for music, dance, visual arts, literature, original perfomances and much more. Encompassing all aspects of the arts and culture in Wales, it is an inclusive and welcoming festival, which attracts thousands of Welsh learners and those who do not speak the language as well as Welsh speakers every year."
The 'all aspects of the arts and culture' clause means it's not just music - it's also dance, visual arts, literature etc. It's not saying anything about whether that's in Welsh or English.
