Forum menu
I'm not arguing with your experience - if you tell me MX riders didn't use it then thats fine. I thought they did.
However its not for most road bikes as its no use on o ring chains
Linklyfe was what we used on road bikes back in the day
Edit: crossing posts. Its useless on O ring chains as the o rings prevent it getting into the rollers. thats why the old hot melt stuff fellout of favour. It even says on the tin for open chains only - not for o ring chains
Yo are one of the folk I referred to above as not finding it any use. I do try to put that caveat in as there is a significant minority of folk that have tried it for MTBs and did not find it any use
It's also not this
Putoline is intended for competition MX motorcycles.
From experience i can assure you the O rings don't stop it getting into a chain.
Fair enough.
Edit: A quick internet search showed me several places selling it as for motocross bikes which is why thats what I thought it for. the place I bought it from was a motocross bike shop
Chain Wax is a traditional treatment for the lubrication of non O-ring (open MX type) chains. When heated on a stove, the special Chain Wax with Graphite additive will melt and will clean and lubricate the non O-Ring (open MX type) chain. It will penetrate deep into the chain. Chain Wax, with a little more effort then with a spray-can the best lubrication for non O-Ring chains.
Putoline Chain Lube Boiling Wax - Motocross Enduro Trials bikes chains
Etc etc.
thats where I took that info from
After every wet ride.
Easy. Pop it off.
Boiling water rinse x2
Dry
Into the wax pot for 15 min.plenty swishing.
Any dirty water is carried into the chains internals so how soon it’s done will dictate drivetrain life.
I use Silca Secret hot melt - they have a drip on top up too.
Great thing with using hot melt wax is that it just takes boiling water to get back to a clean as new bare state.
The only pain is multiple solvent baths before the first wax - OEM “lube” must be fully removed to allow the wax to coat the metal properly.
Adam Kerin at ZeroFrictionCycling is THE source fir reliable waxing info. Proper scientific testing.
From experience i can assure you the O rings don’t stop it getting into a chain.
Putoline themselves say its not for o ring chains. Of course the o rings stop it getting into the rollers - they are an oil / grease seal. thats what the o rings are there for
Its sold by multiple offroad bike shops for MX bikes
After every wet ride.
Easy. Pop it off.
Boiling water rinse x2
Dry
Into the wax pot for 15 min.plenty swishing
While it is easy, if you're doing it after every wet ride, does that defeat the purpose of waxing? You may as well just leave the chain on the bike, clean it along with everything else, and drip more lube on it, which is just as easy. The whole point of hot wax treatments is that you don't have to rinse/repeat after every ride surely? Besides which, I'm not certain the longevity claims - now that SRAM 12 speed lasts me 6000km plus make waxing that attractive either, although presumably it's still cheaper.
They also expand a fair bit with the heat.
Go and drop a bit of O ring chain in your Putoline the take it apart and see what's inside the roller. 😉
Its sold by multiple offroad bike shops for MX bikes
Doesn't mean it was invented for MX bike. Which you keep implying.
I'll leave you to it though TJ as I have no desire to have a pointless argument with the master of that passtime.😛
Never tried that. An interesting experiment to do. I'll get hold of a bit from a pal
Chain Wax is a traditional treatment for the lubrication of non O-ring (open MX type) chains. When heated on a stove, the special Chain Wax with Graphite additive will melt and will clean and lubricate the non O-Ring (open MX type) chain. It will penetrate deep into the chain. Chain Wax, with a little more effort then with a spray-can the best lubrication for non O-Ring chains.
Putoline Chain Wax features:
Specially formulated chain boiling wax providing super taxky protection all over.
Prevents premature chain wear.
Not for use with O-ring chains.
I find it interesting that most folk who have tried it on MTBs find it fab, some find it useless. I have not been able to workout why the experiences are so different. Lots of discussion and thought and no common factors jump out. Soil type is the best answer I have seen.
Doesn’t mean it was invented for MX bike. Which you keep implying.
I am actually listening to what you say. All info is good. No knowledge is wasted 🙂 I thought it was as its a more modern development from the old lynklife ( I can't remember where the "Y" goes) aimed at offroad motorcycles
You tell me its not from your experience then thats cool.
Right - got some worn out O ring chain coming to test it.
Dude.
You've got too much time on your hands.😁
YOu have given me a puzzle to solve. I like puzzles 🙂
I have not been able to workout why the experiences are so different.
I think much of it is down to soil/terrain, peaty acid soil will take it off in no time, and it doesn't do well once there's grit involved. Give it greasy clay soils and it's fine. and I think your straight chain line set up with no constant angle changes (like most of us on mechs and cassettes) probably helps massively. Plus, I will admit, I started using it in the middle of winter, and having to do all the "brewing" outdoors in the cold and rain didn't help, I think spilling some on a pair of trousers (that effectively ruined them ) was the last straw for me, it just didn't seem like it was all worth it.
Honestly I still think it's pretty marginal off road. The performance gains of wax are there for road bikes without a doubt, but off road I'm not convinced it makes such a huge difference for most people, that it's an instant "hallelujah moment." So it comes down to cost and one's tolerance for doing more than dripping a bottle of lube over a chain.
I'd still say that the best lube is probably the one you're prepared to use frequently
Honestly I still think it’s pretty marginal off road.
I think the deciding factor is probably the quality of chain used. Certainly people who run the high end 12 speed chains don't seem to see much improvement (and are getting many thousands of kilometers out of their chains anyway).
It could be the crappy chains I buy, with loads of play already in the rollers, means there's loads of space for the wax to get into and it stays there for a long time. Unobtanium plated chains with tolerances measured by the atom probably means there's room for a molecule of oil and nothing else so waxing is pretty pointless.
Yeah, that's probably a factor as well.
Back to the OP, I'm using glfwax which, I think, is the one that was developed by @Daz of this forum.
I'm probably re-doing it on the road bike every 300 miles or so probably a bit less in the winter, it's more difficult to tell on the mtb as winter & summer conditions vary quite a bit round here - e.g. damp sand gets thrown up less than dry sand onto the chain but conversely there's more mudddy water spray in the winter but i'd say only every other month based on a weekly ride. Always mean to do the oily rag thing but generally forget and occasionally i'll do a slightly ineffectual top up with squirt if i haven't got the time for the full re-hot wax process. better than nothing though and am hoping Daz gets on with development of the glfwax drip-on product.
N.B. glfwax does have a slightly chemically smell but kind of neutral rather than unpleasant so just about ok to use in a (dedicated) cheap slow cooker in the house.
I have used it on derailleur bikes as well - but yes the fixed centres probably helps. I use mid range chains but only 9 and ten speed
Soil type is a good explanation but cannot be the only factor as its not universal. I'm guess its the old Switz cheese theory - when all the factors line up.
After every wet ride.
Easy. Pop it off.
Boiling water rinse x2
Dry
Into the wax pot for 15 min.plenty swishing
Sounds like a bit of a faff?
I used to just throw it straight into the fryer before truing it on (so any water boils off in a controlled way as it warms up).
I've started washing it first and think* it stays cleaner on the outside (hypothesis is that uncontaminated Putoline is more hard and waxy and less tacky) but seems to last less time before the chain begins to look/feel dry (although it's not noisy which is my criteria for re-waxing the road bike so there's probably enough still in the rollers).
*it's hard to be scientific as three rides could be on three very different soils round here
To keep it clean on the outside I do the first ride then give the chain a good wipe down with a rag. This cleans up all the excess that has been squeezed out. It then stays clean for ages.
@leffeboy I get my Brazilian every month, HTH
@cynic-al - would that be in wet or dry conditions?
and, why did no one warn me just how huge a can of putoline is? I'm going to have to bequeath the rest of the tin to my children, although they are already getting 1/2 of the 4l can of finish line cross country I bought about 20 years ago
My first tin lasted me a decade. I have been using it for well over 10 years now. I've started on my second tin
I use Molten Speed Wax like wot someone mentioned above.
Never tried Putoline but by all accounts MSW is cleaner - I think it's paraffin wax based (or similar) with PTFE and other fancy additives. Invisible once it's on.
Baby slow cooker from Argos for £12, MSW shouldn't get too hot so a fryer's probably overkill. Slow cooker works great.
How often? No idea 😋
Solid stiff chain after the fresh wax dries is kinda fun.
Baby slow cooker from Argos for £12
Keeping an eye on our local second hand shop for something but for the moment just shoved the tin in the oven at 95. Wife is out of the house for a few hours...
Keeping an eye on our local second hand shop for something
And winner. Our local commune (equivalent of council I guess) run a 'recyclerie' where people can bring stuff they no longer use and they check/repair it and sell it on. Got a tefal electric fondue set that was missing everything apart from the actual heater/saucepan part that is all I need. 1.25l, gets up to just under 90deg and it's got a new life. Is happy
QUOTE I don’t ride mine in absolute slop but I do ride in all weathers, road and tracks on he same bike. In the winter I do it every 200 miles or so, much less in the summer. I can vouch for the longevity of the components using Putoline (currently around 2500 miles on a single chain/cassette with little sign of wear on my wear indicator – well less than .5 anyway. That said, I am using an XTR chain which appears to last way longer than any others, so worth the additional cost, my original SLX chain lasted only a few months. My only gripe is the gunk that collects around the jockey wheels and to a lesser degree on the chainring. It’s not loads and I’d rather have the gunk than have to replace components more frequently. My LBS say they use Squirt exclusively now but then they’d never heard of Putoline, so I’m wondering if Squirt is the next best thing and will be cleaner and chains will last nearly as long – a bit more laborious in terms of frequency of application admittedly but on a road bike this might be preferable. QUOTE
For me the chain started squeaking after few drops of rain when using Squirt.
As for Putoline, 8 speed chain was worn by 0.75% after 1000km only despite frequent dipping in Putoline. Could be just because it might be a counterfeit KMC chain from Amazon.
I’m using Squirt. Reapply after every wet ride, and when it starts to get noisy in the dry.
Agree it lasts much better in drier conditions. Main problems for me have been forgetting to top up and then not being able to in the morning because it hasn’t got time to dry.
I think that better quality chains work better with it, because they’re less prone to surface rusting. I also think it gets better with more applications.
I really like the fact that I don’t get any residue build up on my drive train from using it, and will be using it on my commuter bike when I next replace the drive train.
With Squirt you really need to heat the chain and make sure the liquid is at 18-20c otherwise it doesn't penetrate. Also you have to give it time to dry otherwise it just washes out.
Could be just because it might be a counterfeit KMC chain from Amazon
Answered your own question there I think!
I've put MSW on an X01 chain and I put my results from a first wet ride in another thread so I won't repeat here.
MSW users - do you rewax as often as ZFC recommends? - Singletrack World Magazine
Is there any way to remove the excess Putoline wax as possible since it causes more grinding noise on narrow wide chainrings due accumulation of sand. This summer the bike seems to attract sand more than usual despite prolonged rain which in theory should keep more sand particles and dust on the ground. Riding on paved roads only when not counting Osmand navigation blunders.
Might try degreasing the chain and putting small amount of wax on rollers before heating it up with a heat gun.
I thought once every Hailey's comet was the answer ☄️
Is there any way to remove the excess Putoline wax
Yes. Fit chain and then ride about and wipe off excess with a rag sprayed with WD40. Riding forces the excess out. I wipe after the first and second ride then my chain remains spotless, however I don't live in a sandy area. You may have to do it pre-emptively.
Might try degreasing the chain and putting small amount of wax on rollers before heating it up with a heat gun.
I tried this, didn't work well. It's quite hard to find an angle that doesn't heat up some part of your bike, and the wax gets hot and smokes.
"Yes. Fit chain and then ride about and wipe off excess with a rag sprayed with WD40. Riding forces the excess out. I wipe after the first and second ride then my chain remains spotless, however I don’t live in a sandy area. You may have to do it pre-emptively"
I think wiping might push the sand in deeper in to the chain (12 speed Shimano). And it nearly impossible to clean off every nook and cranny.
"I tried this, didn’t work well. It’s quite hard to find an angle that doesn’t heat up some part of your bike, and the wax gets hot and smokes"
The chain can be removed before using hot air gun. It shouldn't smoke when using the hot air gun from a distance at lowest temperature. Hair dryer might not be powerful enough.
Narrow wide chainrings are said to reduce drivetrain efficiency more than normal chainrings if there are any sort of dirt particles introduced.
"Yes. Fit chain and then ride about and wipe off excess with a rag sprayed with WD40. Riding forces the excess out. I wipe after the first and second ride then my chain remains spotless, however I don’t live in a sandy area. You may have to do it pre-emptively"
I think wiping might push the sand in deeper in to the chain (12 speed Shimano). And it's nearly impossible to clean off every nook and cranny.
"I tried this, didn’t work well. It’s quite hard to find an angle that doesn’t heat up some part of your bike, and the wax gets hot and smokes"
The chain can be removed before using hot air gun. It shouldn't smoke when using the hot air gun from a distance at lowest temperature. Hair dryer might not be powerful enough.
Narrow wide chainrings are said to reduce drivetrain efficiency more than normal chainrings if there are any sort of dirt particles introduced.
Putoline changed my life
I hate cleaning drivetrains and chains. I was doing it every ride.
Now I just pop the chain off, shake it in a jar of white spirit and then drop it into hot putoline.
I don't bother cleaning the cassette, mech or chainring because they don't meed it.
I ride mountains every week and only need to do it every other month or so, maybe more in the wet winter.
"Putoline changed my life
I hate cleaning drivetrains and chains. I was doing it every ride.
Now I just pop the chain off, shake it in a jar of white spirit and then drop it into hot putoline.
I don’t bother cleaning the cassette, mech or chainring because they don’t meed it.
I ride mountains every week and only need to do it every other month or so, maybe more in the wet winter."
How do you hope with the odor of the white spirit (hyperosmia) since the odorless one is too expensive. I thought people normally boil the chain in the water to get of the dirty wax. Not sure if minerals in the water will leave residue. Fairy certainly accelerates corrosion.
I'm usually shaking off the excess wax from a hot chain and cleaning the surface with acetone but apparently that's not enough to achieve life changing experience.
I thought people normally boil the chain in the water to get of the dirty wax.
??
I am very impressed with Putoline too, after TJ’s evangelism. I don’t do anything to the chain before relawaxing it and it does not seem to be a problem. The “old wax” liquefies and mixes into the bulk of the hot liquid Putoline so I can’t see the need to pre-clean it.
Before first Putolining a brand new chain I do give it a rinse in white spirit, but I am not convinced that does anything worthwhile either.
I think wiping might push the sand in deeper in to the chain
I'm saying ride up and down the road then wipe it before your first ride. Do that a couple of times. Yes, faff, but it should only need doing when you re-wax which should be once for a summer, esp on road.
I thought people normally boil the chain in the water to get of the dirty wax.
I don't clean mine before re-waxing. I just re-dunk.
This chain was de-greased when new, then waxed, ridden, wiped, ridden, wiped again then has done a dozen or so rides since. It's been hosed off twice. The rides were dry and dusty except for the last two which were a bit muddy. It's still smooth and silent, remarkably so in fact.
fwiw I'm finding I get about 5-600k before the chain feels like it might need a rewax. Although maybe this is just me getting nervous with a chain that looks as dry as the one above but probably works ok. In any case I just take the chain off, wipe off any obvious crap and then shove it in the pan with the wax.
fwiw I’m finding I get about 5-600k before the chain feels like it might need a rewax. Although maybe this is just me getting nervous with a chain that looks as dry as the one above but probably works ok.
It looks dry but is silent, so it's well lubed on the inside. I go by noise, when I start hearing a bit of chain noise I re-wax.
I’m finding it isn’t lasting as long as I would like. It is a KMC chain with black inner plates.
Chain thoroughly prepared before first wax.
On the zero friction cycling guide it says avoid KMC chains due the coatings preventing proper wax adherence.
Anybody else find this to be the case?
What are your criteria for when it needs a re-wax?
Good question, I’m new to this lark and I’m trying to do it by sound. I don’t record the distances of my rides but I don’t think I got close to 500k in mostly dry conditions.