[Closed] Was that you, ermmm defecating at the roadside?

Meh, New Forest arrivistes complaining about people using the forest in a way they don't like. Same old same old, they've been doing it for years.

at least cyclist's go off the road to poo, not like horses.

Wow. It looks like the happy-clappy, Daily Wail fraternity again.

They will die off eventually you know.

It could have been me. But I if they'd hung around while I finished of they'd have seen that do the responsible thing and bag it, then hang it in a bush..where it can later be collected by dog walkers.

Judging by the professional looking poster (printout in a plastic ring binder folder) it doesn't seem to be a mass movement (no pun intended).

Now where was that thread about turd/letterbox etiquette?

then hang it in a bush.. where it can later be collected by dog walkers.

One of my major issues with dog walkers. The stench at Swinley on a hot day riding into the car park had to be experienced to be believed.

IMO It's quite possible that some of the riders last year did all of the claimed 'crimes'. I've seen plenty of daft behaviour in sportives by riders taking stupid risks or shouting at drivers that cut them off or slowed them down because they are under the illusion that they are in a race. And I've curled one down plenty of times when out riding (or running) when I've had that turtle's head moment far from facilities.

The best thing that can happen is that the event goes ahead with the participants all being immaculately behaved. If they are the protesters get to like look silly nimbys, but if there are incidents it will look like they have a point.

shouting at drivers that cut them off

That's fair enough though, dangerous driving is a pretty good reason to shout.

I was behind a horse yesterday and it blathered out a mountain of poo right in the middle of the trail, in fact l had to change down and move the fork adjustment from "trail" to "climb" in order to ride over it.

As for bagging it, you'd have needed a JCB.

I am not complaining, just saying.

I met a couple with a labrador in the woods the other day.

It was tucking into a huge pile of horse poo with apparent gusto which I thought was a good way to get the stuff off the trails.

The owners were looking on aghast.

That's fair enough though, dangerous driving is a pretty good reason to shout.

Sorry - badly worded. I'm not really taking about dangerous driving. I'm talking about riders screaming at cars/drivers that are turning right so blocking the road in front of them or slowing down in front of them to turn into a car park. The sort of stuff most cyclists in normal situations would never do, but for some reason some sportive 'racers' deems acceptable. Not many I grant you, but it only takes a few.

Pfft! They're obviously not familiar with the rights of passage, so to speak, of cycling. One of your benchmark moments is your first trail poo. Normally induced through heroically over-enthusiastic drinking the night before a big ride.

Its a thing to be celebrated, sometimes even applauded, not condemned

Zinger Tower burger corner is on one of my rides, I'll let you guess why....

Its a thing to be celebrated, sometimes even applauded, not condemned

Oh and dogs eating horse poo. I've come across that one too. When I mentioned to the owner "your dog's eating horse poo", I got a VERY weary "yes I know..."

I reckon it was this lady.
[img] [/img]

But one councillor has claimed “piles of excrement” were found by litter wardens along the route

so not actually cyclists then. just near them.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10812477.New_Forest_cyclists_branded__Lycra_louts_/

I blame Ray Mears. He's always bushcrafting in the New Forest doing his "Wild Poo Weekends".

[quote=convert ]I'm talking about riders screaming at cars/drivers that are turning right so blocking the road in front of them or slowing down in front of them to turn into a car park.

The car drivers which have just overtaken them?

The car drivers which have just overtaken them?

Nope- just going about their day to day business but slowing down our heros.

I think a maximum of 3,000 riders for this event is bang out of order and a more reasonable number would be 1,000.

Whilst I loathe the attitude of these New Forest nimbys, that number of riders will affect their freedom to go about their daily business.

* awaits flaming *

Isn't it 3000 spread over two days?

[readily admits he has no real idea but vaguely recalls this might have been the case]

CG - agreed. As I've said before on similar threads, sportive/audax/randonee/reliability type events in the New Forest have been going on for years without any issue. It's only in the last few years when the events grew in size that it all got a bit more tetchy. The organisers have not expanded the size 'for the good of the cycling community', they have done it to make a viable profit making full time business. I'm not sure that's a good enough reason and like you I'm loathed to come down on the side of the nimbys but I can see the issue.

I don't know, it isn't made clear on the Wiggle blurb. Two days just isn't on.

* awaits wrath *

[quote=convert ]Nope- just going about their day to day business but slowing down our heros.

So how did they get in front of the cyclists?

convert - were they originally low key events organised by local clubs?

So how did they get in front of the cyclists?

Come on - use your imagination! Normally the issues are when the event goes through a village/town/built up area. Traffic moving at normal sleepy village speed - the riders come in hard and want to press on through at the same speed they were doing on the open road.

I think a maximum of 3,000 riders for this event is bang out of order and a more reasonable number would be 1,000.

Whilst I loathe the attitude of these New Forest nimbys, that number of riders will affect their freedom to go about their daily business.

The Flanders cyclo had 16000 riders. Locals didn't get pissed off about it despite whole areas being blocked off and main roads being stopped to let riders through. What is it about British people that annoys them so much about having to have a slightly slower/longer drive on a weekend?

How many people complain about the London/Brighton marathon closing vast areas? The New Forest does seem to attract this anti-cycling attitude that you don't see as often elsewhere.
I do sympathise with locals though to a degree. I think that events with 1500+ participants should pay to have rolling road closures which should be agreed by local authorities or at least events be limited per year.
With so many sportive companies now getting in on the action, it seems there are events most weekends.

convert - were they originally low key events organised by local clubs?

Yes. They were smaller but also I think the local bit came into play too. The organisers wanting to make sure they rubbed along ok to preserve the thing for the future but also less animosity for a locally organised thing than something run by 'outsiders' seemly just coming in and using the area for a profit making venture.

I think the size was the biggest factor though. I get Atlaz's point about the size of the events on the continent but we are where we are. I've done events on the continent where the locals totally buy into it and sit in their gardens watching and cheering all day and see the event being in the area as an asset not a hassle. That's not where we are in the UK yet. It's still just something to be tolerated by the locals - not saying that's right but you can't force locals to embrace your pastime just because you thinks its cool.

[i] I think that events with 1500+ participants should pay to have rolling road closures[/i]

it's not going to happen - 1500/3000/n000 riders starting over a 2 hour period and taking from 3-8 hours to complete the same route isn't the same as a compact peleton whizzing along at 40km/h

It's still just something to be tolerated by the locals - not saying that's right but you can't force locals to embrace your pastime just because you thinks its cool.

I absolutely don't think it's cool 😉 Tolerance is fine, but active hostility is where most local interest groups come from.

Active hostility starts when tolerance threshold has been reached. Some people might have lower thresholds than others.

A lot of the New Forest crowd start from a threshold of zero and move downwards from there. The fact they make up stories about riders injuring ponies and assaulting members of the public would indicate they're not interested in sharing what they take great pains to point out is a shared resource. They have never been accepting of tourists, joggers, hikers or day trippers and this is just the latest in their hysterical behaviour.

Poster lost its credibility when I read 'Palm Sunday'

If you believe the fiction of Jesus Christ you'll believe anything

Agreed that there are plenty of nimbys. It's not restricted just to the south of England though - do you remember the fuss with the tacks scattered in the road for a similar event in Scotland a few years ago?

They have never been accepting of tourists, joggers, hikers or day trippers and this is just the latest in their hysterical behaviour.

The funny bit is that so many folk living in the forest are not life long residents, but have migrated there after falling in love with the place visiting as a tourist!

[quote=convert ]The funny bit is that so many folk living in the forest are not life long residents, but have migrated there after falling in love with the place visiting as a tourist!

Those people also tend to be the least tolerant of things disturbing the traditional ways (I should know, I'm a village incomer 😉 )

I recently defecated by the roadside, but that's where the portaloo was positioned for the roadside burger van.

I see no mention on the poster the antics of the anti-cyclist last year - people throwing tacs on the road which caused punctures and I believe some poor chap who wasn't even competing a broken collarbone, farmers spreading mud on the road deliberately and trying a mini road block and if the rumours are to be believed physically standing abreast the road at one point and (trying) to intimidate riders.

Looks like they aren't asking for open warfare this time.

Tbh I was planning on a sunday ride in the Forest, reckon I'll head North round Farley Mount should be nice and quiet.

Yet how much money will be spent in the local area on food, beer, accomodation etc etc.
Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot.
The New Forest is not some backwards look into the rose tinted past FFS.

[i]Yet how much money will be spent in the local area on food, beer, accomodation etc etc.[/i]

Increasingly less since the nimbys forced the start point to be outside the NAtional Park area.

The route is passing through our village again this year so i'll look out for those posters.

Nice off them to provide roadside toilet paper!

The New Forest is not some backwards look into the rose tinted past FFS.

but you can get a ferry there from lymington! 😉

So ... did anyone ride this? Any angry natives? If you poo'd by the roadside then please don't share on here!

thomthumb, careful, I live there.....

So ... did anyone ride this? Any angry natives

I was out and part of my loop met up with the sportive all looked very ordered and people generally being nice and enjoying themselves. Quite a few police about. Only had one car get what i regard as too close, but to be fair i was overtaking a far slower rider on the beauliu hill so was two abreast, which ideally Id avoid. Lots of friends did it and enjoyed it.

Shame to hear that at least one moron threw tacks on the road

I'm sorry to read that locals were putting tacks on the road once again and such a shame that they weren't caught by the Police. So cowardly.

I don't know whether the organisers have held discussions with residents associations but they clearly need to. I still feel that there are too many entrants.

Years ago I was involved in organising running races and the club worked hard with local residents to minimise any disruption. Those near the HQ were leafleted well in advance. All profits from the events went to local charities so perhaps this made people more tolerant.

[quote=cinnamon_girl]I don't know whether the organisers have held discussions with residents associations but they clearly need to. I still feel that there are too many entrants.

2000 is too many? 16000 for the Ronde cyclo, Around 4000 (I heard) for the Paris Roubaix Sportive. Again I will make the point that the French and Belgians are welcoming of these sort of events so this is not about ACTUAL disruption or ACTUAL numbers, it's about people not wanting to be theoretically inconvenienced.

[quote=cinnamon_girl]Those near the HQ were leafleted well in advance. All profits from the events went to local charities so perhaps this made people more tolerant.

[quote=Wiggle]We are also delighted to have donated £3,000 to the amazing local New Forest charity Oak Haven Hospice.

Yes it is atlaz, certainly darn Sarf where there's far too many people. Of course people don't want to be inconvenienced as having a car is supposed to give one independence.

£3k donation is a joke! Entry fee was how much? We used to give a five figure sum to local charities, not bad for a running club with 100 members at that time who happily volunteered their time and much else.

May I ask everyone what exactly is the legacy left by the Olympics? Has it changed anyone's perception of being active? At least my son was suitably impressed and has bought a nice racer. 8)

2000 is too many?

it's a national park. for the enjoyment of the nation. cyclists included.

Were the issues around the Surrey Hills resolved?

Yes thomthumb I agree but a group of us weren't made welcome there, in fact we had a really stroppy cah on horseback telling us off. Got short change from us lot!

Contrast that with the reaction of a horserider I met on a local and much smaller sportive.

As he was passed by about the fiftieth cyclist he smiled at me and said "looks like I chose the wrong route today"

Wow, that was very public-spirited of him. May I ask what area?

Oxfordshire. To be clear there were only about 150 riders in total but generally round my way I've had positive interactions with horseriders.

That's interesting but, then again, 150 riders is hardly going to mega inconvenience anyone. Maybe!

Years ago I came across a horse rider/trainer in the Chilterns who asked if I'd mind riding alongside her young horse that she was training. She wanted to get it used to moving objects such as bikes. I was fine with that, horse kept turning its head to look at my mountain bike and had to keep pedalling due to having a Hope hub. She did say that, in her experience and view point, the worst cyclists were the roadies as they whizzed past silently. Often if a horse can hear you then they will be OK.

As a horse rider and cyclist I can state that there are polite and considerate people who ride both, there are also idiots who ride both, so don't tar all with the same brush.

Just by way of information, the reason a horse reacts when a bike comes up fast from behind is because horses peripheral vision extend back a lot further than humans, so they can almost see behind themselves. If you watch any wildlife programs about Africa, you will see the lions, tigers and other big cats attack their prey from behind, and so even the best trained horse can react when a bike comes fast from behind, simply because their instinct tells them to.

Just been chatting to guy at work who did the Wiggle ride.
Apparently weeing (thankfully, not poohing) was a problem - instead of using the portaloos, some dirty buggers were peeing up the wall [i]of a hotel[/i]!

neilm - it must be really tough riding a horse these days particularly if you have any road work. I do tend to ask whether it's OK to come through and always give them a wide berth.

Out of interest, can you be more specific about peripheral vision ie at what distance could a horse potentially hear a bike.

Dez - I'm going to be sexist here and state that men always want to do a group wee, some tribal thing perhaps? At the races I was involved with, we had a lady complaining bitterly that runners were pee'ing up against her garden fence in full view of her young children. 😯

Us laydeez would never behave in such an outrageous manner. 😆

As the route came through our village again, I ended up driving on some of the route two or three times at the weekend, whilst "going about my daily life".

Can't say that I was massively inconvenienced. Maybe held up for 10-20 seconds at most before it was safe to pass. Although I did end up head on with a couple of largish groups (10 or so riders) who were taking up quite a lot of road on some of the narrower/twistier sections. Overall it seemed to pass by without incident as the riders were fairly well spread out making overtaking easy.

The closest call I had was an impatient van driver who decided to overtake on a blind bend and ended up on my side of the road coming straight at me. In swerving back in he made a good job of cutting up the cyclist he was overtaking.

Didn't see anyone answering the call of nature. 🙂

There was a much bigger police presence this year, a lot more marshalls and quite a lot of event staff driving around in support vehicles.

May I ask everyone what exactly is the legacy left by the Olympics? Has it changed anyone's perception of being active?

I'm confused. Are you for sportives or against them as I'm struggling figure it out. As for the money raised, I think the local charity was the secondary one and designed to give something to the locals but it was more to illustrate that it was something rather than nothing.

A pleasing report from FieldMarshall. 🙂

atlaz - I think it would be great if organisers worked with local people to offer preferential rates for accommodation, meals etc. and actually offer something to the community. Bouncy castle etc for the kids of entrants, make it a family occasion.

This 'ride in ride out' way of doing things is not good hence the resentment. Local people could perhaps be 'incentivised' for taking part.

I don't have a problem with races or sportives provided that they're kept at a sensible number and not 2,000.

Sorry, just had a thought - you're in France aren't you? Can you go into detail about any events there?

I did it the Autumn one last last year. Locals were friendly, and the only signs I saw were actually pro cycling signs put up in a couple of local hotels. I didn't see any dodgy behaviour from motorists, horse riders or cyclists. 2 of us rode but we decided to make a weekend of it so 6 of us rented a cottage close to the old start point. I'm not sure exactly how much we spent overall but it would have been several hundred pound by the time you factor in accommodation a couple of meals out and local shopping. We also raised £2,500 in charity sponsorship money, including some from a local resident.

The largest group I remember seeing on the road was around 20 people and that was very close to the start and before people had started to separate. After the first 30 minutes the biggest group was probably about 8 people. Overall I thought it was very well organised.

This 'ride in ride out' way of doing things is not good hence the resentment. Local people could perhaps be 'incentivised' for taking part.

I don't have a problem with races or sportives provided that they're kept at a sensible number and not 2,000.

Sorry, just had a thought - you're in France aren't you? Can you go into detail about any events there?

I'm in Luxembourg but close enough to do events all over the area. The most recent one I've done, the hotels in the area are packed (every group in my B&B had at least one person riding) and there's very much a sense that people are bringing something to the area. I could have driven to it if I'd got up a bit early but spent a weekend in Gent instead. The local riders were out in force and there were even people on knackered old MTBs and town bikes doing it but there was no discount for locals, they were riding for the fun of the event.

The difference is in local attitude. They celebrate the fact people are coming to ride as the area as a whole benefits from the massive influx of tourism. Like I said though, its a general attitude; speaking to locals they view it as part of their culture and they are really happy to be sharing the area with outsiders. Same thing if you talk to people in the Vosges mountains for the sportives down there; it's a nice way for people to discover their area and spend money. I'm sure there's a couple of grumpy arses who moved there for the quiet mountains then found out loads of other people like them too, but I've not found many.

Lets put it this way, I think other than the occasional nutter (like in the TdF the other year), tacks on the road of a sportif is not something that happens here, despite the numbers. Perhaps we'd be better off what makes the people in Surrey or the New Forest or the Highlands so determined to keep people away from their area that they're prepared to hurt people riding bikes.

Cinnamon girl, as far as I can tell, my horses hearing is better than mine and he can hear something coming up from behind, or round a blind corner a couple of seconds before it gets to us, depending on what it is and how fast it is traveling.

However, what alarms horses is fast movement in their peripheral vision.

So the combination of a whizzing or buzzing sound, which not all horses will recognise as being a harmless object (bicycle), and something approaching fast from behind is what can cause a reaction.

As for the roads, it is no different for me as either a horse or bike rider, the advantage I have on a horse is height and size, as it's not as easy to harass 550kgs of horse.

My advise is just to make sure the horse rider knows you are there with a bell or a call, they will then be able to steady the horse, or in my case tell the cyclist that my horse is fine, unless they are carrying fruit or biscuits which he will assume are treats for him to eat!

'ride in, ride out' forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't the organisers move the start/finish zone OUT of the National Park area because of the temper tantrums of some locals?
Now the organisers are at fault for not including the locals???

Yes, it was the NF Equestrian Association who put pressure on New Park Farm to prevent the sportive from continuing to be based there.

The new start/finish is now outside the forest.

So whilst many people probably still stay within the forest, i expect many might now choose to stay outside the forest as it will be cheaper/more convenient. Thus reducing any financial benefit.

It would therefore seem that the opponents are more concerned with stopping the event at any cost and as such have clearly got their own interests at heart rather than the local businesses. Given that many of the known opponents are elected councillors and are clearly in the minority it would appear that they are not representing their electorate.

My old man has had run ins with "locals" in the forest who've lived in Hants less time than he has. Last time they referred to him as "...you people...". Says a lot.

The most important thing for us when we picked somewhere to stay for the weekend of the Autumn event was that it was within easy riding distance of the start.

Not sure how many other people would think likewise but if I was doing it again and staying close by was not such an attractive option (renting in the park was a nice weekend with or without the bike ride) then I'd be more likely to drive in and out on the day.

Which would be a bad all round, more tiring for me, less money into the local economy, less good things to tell people about the weekend and the area which encourages future visitors and more tightly packed traffic on the roads either side of the event. much better to get people to stay over and drift home over the space of a couple of days.

If anyone feels that any of the protestors may have overstepped their mark as a local councillor or has not followed the strict Code of Conduct, for example by maybe producing posters that are factually incorrect/inflammatory or acting in a manner that is deemed discriminatory, then here is a link to the New Forest District Councils code of conduct and complaint form.

http://www.newforest.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1649

I must get back over to the NF again soon. Havent ridden over there for years! 😈

Looks like Plod are taking this seriously, finally, at last.

? where have you seen that? Last year some poor sod had a broken collar bone, it should have been taken seriously then.