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Thank god my, possible, next bike has a weird [url= 
]seat post[/url] and [url= 
]stem[/url], so I cannot get into such a mess.
We're our own worse enemies 😀
Yes and no. I agree with the above but as long as the shim meets the minimum insertion required into the frame its no different to that of a seatpost with the minimum insertion. (It could be less as the smaller post would absorb the forces better then a larger diameter post assuming they were like for like construction)
Seat tubes, particularly in carbon, are not straight forward. The Giant frame I owned had a thicker wall within the seat tube. In effect an integral shim. The post below the seat tube did not touch the seat tube wall. Well it did when the top section flexed hence the reflective paint crack in the seat tube which related to the bottom of the seat post within the frame.
Also sit on the turbo and look at the flex at the seat tube / seat post mark. If the post is fitting snuggly in the frame and dissipating the forces over say 170mm (in my case)as implied above why is this point moving around like a spider on acid.
What is it with lifetime warranties that seem to bring out the scumbags?
Touch strong maybe, is it because one of my bikes has a 650 wheel on it? 😉
VERY LOUD SHOUTING
It is!
(I don't think you thought that scumbag comment was aimed at you, but just on the off chance you do, it definitely wasn't! Just in case!)
Thank god my, possible, next bike has a weird seat post and stem, so I cannot get into such a mess.
Nice bike.... wait a minute its a Giant. I'm out!
I think there is a difference when using a shim, but whether it will make a frame fail I'm not sure (this could be wrong):
All seat posts (with or without a shim) are only clamped at the top where the seat clamp is. So the post is effectively pivoting around this point when loaded. At the bottom of the seat post, the post is prevented from moving by the internal surface of the frame. With a shim, the post 'may' compress the plastic, resulting in extra deflection (and load) at the top of the post, where the weld is.
As I said, I'm not sure if this is correct, and I'm sure it depends on how stiff the seat post is, relative to the frame etc. It may even be worse if the seat post is inserted a long way (more leverage?)
But if it didn't say don't use a seat post, I'd be annoyed if they rejected my claim.
Sweet mother of Abraham Lincoln, is this thread still going. 🙄
i appreciate that you're pretty pissed about it, but it certainly sounds to me like all avenues have been taken. The offer of a new front triangle seems pretty reasonable to me.
Nice bike.... wait a minute its a Giant. I'm out!
Why? You can't get a Thomson seatpost in a D-shaped hole 8)
Giving Freeborn it with both barrels is never going to solve your problem.
As I say Joe is particularly good to deal with and he deals with warranties at Freeborn. He is a really decent bloke with great customer service.
By the way £350 for a new front triangle is a bloody good deal if you ask me.
If I was you, I would calm down a bit, come back at it with your negotiators hat on and try working with Joe for a compromise. Who knows, they may give you a better deal and throw in a seatpost that is the correct diameter for a Dixon!
maybe this set up would help? should be good for the warranty dept I reckon
[img] 
[/img]
😯
Please tell me that's a real pic, not just a set up 😀
not just a set up
It is set up. Set up perfectly!
I've got a 27.2 dropper post. If I ever change frames, that's what I'll be doing 😉
YoKaiser - is that the bloke who works out in Colorado for Pearl Izumi or someone?
By the way £350 for a new front triangle is a bloody good deal if you ask me.
This. I might be p1ssed about my frame breaking, but I'd be biting their hand off as a "non-warranty" offer this is pretty damn good, based on rrp of the frame.
I'm with the OP - as long as the minimum insertion requirement is met the use of a shim should be irrelevant.
Giant supplied all of their nrs frames shimmed for years.
This. I might be p1ssed about my frame breaking, but I'd be biting their hand off as a "non-warranty" offer this is pretty damn good, based on rrp of the frame.
It's a good deal only if you have confidence that the new triangle will have better longevity than the previous one....And if you're good with giving money to a maker that doesn't behave well when the chips are down. Saying "The frames crap but you can have another on the cheap" isn't the most positive noise a maker can make.
Personally, if I felt badly treated by a company the last thing I'd do is send them more money. But I take your point - it's cheaper to replace the triangle than buy a new frame.
My problem would be I simply don't have £350 for the new triangle.
Maybe it's the same case for the op. Especially when, to be honest, he really hasn't done anything wrong.
Don't some manufacturers actually weld/glue a shim into the frame to bring oversizes tubes down to a standard seatpost size?
I feel for the OP.
I honestly think that shim is a legit part in the bike world. Loads of people saying 'oh you naturally void the warranty by using a shim' seems a bit weird to me but oh well...
The only thing I wanted to point out is the exact spot of the crack. I've had a Dixon before (and BTW was running it with a 30.9 - 31.6 shim with no issues). The crack is like 2-3 cms below the seat clamp. The shim and post were inserted much deeper - 10 cms.
In the case of 'not enough insertion' I'd really expect to see a crack much closer to the lower part of the shim/post. In this case it seems like the flex of the shim-post assembly should've been HUGE to actually lead to this crack spot. Trying to think 'mechanically' I'd say that normal 31.6 post would've put very similar/same stress on this very part of the seat tube. I don't really see how the proper shim and 27.2 post would make things worse. But again, I'm not a professional engineer so I may be wrong.
What this does look like is a generally too weak weld/seatpost junction. Which, in theory, might've made the warranty claim a bit more justified?
Using a shim is not a bodge and the OP has been screwed over here. The 'entirely assembled' clause is ridiculous for a company that are happy to have their frames sold mail order, but it will allow them to legally refuse this claim so there's not much more you can do
OP unfortunately your best bet is to just buy the new front triangle and then sell the whole frame and buy something different from a manufacturer/distributor that doesn't weasel out of their warranty obligations. Thanks for posting this though as it's only through threads like this that we can learn who stands by their warranties and who doesn't
Structurally, I'd say no difference between a 100mm 27.2 - 31.6 dia shim & 100mm of 31.6 dia post, & they know it. They are just ducking out of a bit of work by twisting the wording.
Fobbing off going on here as usual.
Freeborn should put this to Devinci & back-up their customer FFS.
What's it going to cost them anyway, as it will just go back to Devinci.
Have to agree that warranty wording sucks. I take it as you can't even change your own tyres!
If the op sends the grand in and gets the same response then that's rubbish. I certain won't buy a Devinci based on this.
A shim is a bodge.
Nice bike.... wait a minute its a Giant. I'm out!Why? You can't get a Thomson seatpost in a D-shaped hole
But I don't like the seat so changing that would render the warranty invalid. 🙂
But I don't like the seat so changing that would render the warranty invalid.
Well, it's a moot point, as I will knacker the warranty when I fit different wheels* 🙁
*Possibly.
talking again about head-set reducers and seatpost shims...
this is Knolly Warranty Info:
"It does not cover damage caused by the use or installation of non-recommended parts e.g forks that exceed the maximum recommended travel length, [b]seat post shims, head-set reducers[/b], non-approved rear shocks etc"
http://www.knollybikes.co.uk/knollywarrantyin.html
Freeborn sold me a head-set reducer with the frame but for them using a setpost shim is a crime 😀
Serious brands (like Knolly) have serious warranty info, CHEATERS like Devinci will cheat you whenever they can, with the COLLABORATION of Freeborn
I don't understand - why have you not sent the frame back to them?
All these warranties are to a greater or lesser extent cop outs. A shim may, in some cases, cause extra stress around the weld. Longer travel front forks may increase the load at the front enough to cause a weld to fail.
The frame manufacturer isn't going to work out exactly what force will result in a failure, and how that related to shim size or fork travel.
Therefore, the easy option is to say no shims, no extra travel.
What have Freeborn got to do with Devinci's warranty wording?
Think your getting confused!
if you can't afford a new one i would bond the shim into it and see how long it lasts
seems peculiar that its cracked along the edge of a weld even bikes that dont have a shim have been known to crack along the edge of a weld,
I don't understand - why have you not sent the frame back to them?
Because it will cost him a fortune and they've already told him there's unlikely to be any point. We've been through this.
thanks grum
What have Freeborn got to do with Devinci's warranty wording?Think your getting confused!
Hi Mosey
Freeborn have assumed the decisión of Devinci with no doubt, I have asked them the exact point where Devinci says that I can not use a shim and they told me that the point 8 is very clear about that. I have read that point several times (and the others too) and the only thing that I read about seatpost is the minium insert.
Devinci and Freeborn are in the same boat on this
All these warranties are to a greater or lesser extent cop outs. A shim may, in some cases, cause extra stress around the weld. Longer travel front forks may increase the load at the front enough to cause a weld to fail.
The frame manufacturer isn't going to work out exactly what force will result in a failure, and how that related to shim size or fork travel.
Therefore, the easy option is to say no shims, no extra travel
This is what Giant tried to argue but on a similar note there was no rider weight limit for the bike. So I could have been 20stone heavier and it would have been okay but change one seatpost for another voided the warranty. Just makes the manufacturers look stupid.
May be the most famous british bike Brand is Orange, at least here in Spain
Please, watch this:
[b]FAQ — What size seat post/front mech or bottom bracket will fit my bike?[/b]
http://orangebikes.co.uk/support/faq/useful_frame_dimensions
Here's a thought (and I have read all the posts!)...
Could it be their offer is a default position for warranty issues where costs would be incurred by both parties?
Saves hassle for them, for you, and for £350 you get a new front triangle at your door. They probably make no profit on the sale, but save costs of investigation and the fact they've indicated they're not likely to side with you, could be a fair (as mentioned before, a default position) compromise.
Yes you've been sitched slightly in their position on the shim.business, but unless you're prepared to spend money & time perusing your claim, I'd take the £350 new triangle.
There's a phrase "suck it up", could be time to do this take the offer and just learn from it.
Good luck, but make a decision!!
Yes you've been sitched slightly in their position on the shim.business, but unless you're prepared to spend money & time perusing your claim, I'd take the £350 new triangle.
I put you some words of other who have perfectly shown my feels:
[b]"Personally, if I felt badly treated by a company the last thing I'd do is send them more money"[/b]
Hence my suggestion of "suck it up" and learn from it.
It's the best thing to do sometimes; look after your own interest rather than getting angry about a situation you have little control over, or as it appears, prepared to try to take control of.
Of course, you could persue it, fight it, badger them, make them take notice.
You could lose though, be more angry and more out of pocket.
Anyhow, was just a thought.
Yep if you fight it and do whatever you will still probably end up without a working bike.
This is what Giant tried to argue but on a similar note there was no rider weight limit for the bike. So I could have been 20stone heavier and it would have been okay but change one seatpost for another voided the warranty. Just makes the manufacturers look stupid.
So, if you had left swapped the seatpost to original before taking it back to Giant, they would have warrantied it?
I still can't believe, as in I am surprised a company the size of Giant tried to dodge the bullet, that they used this as a cop out.
I'd say this part of the warranty wording is more relevant than the ambiguous seat reference;
* Parts not supplied by devinci with the bicycle or not indicated in
the user’s manual for all frames or the technical manual for the
frames with double suspension were used;
If you spend £350 on a new triangle would you use the shim again or would you get the correct size post?