[Closed] Warranty issue with DEVINCI/FREEBORN

Crikey 😕 This is a bit of a conundrum isn't it?! Lots of misinterpretation possibly caused by translation and lots of jumping to conclusions...

I have a question for mcgowan: What would you have Freeborn /Devinci do about your issue?

At best we are second guessing, so once you answer the above, advice and suggestions as to how you may be able to achieve your aim will doubtless flow forth. From there, you can make your wish into an action and give it a go. You may also consider the possibility that you may need to change your wish.

Good luck.

Mcgowan, what do you want to happen?

I assume you want a free replacement?

Stop complaining here about what may or may not happen and just send in the damn frame with a nice letter and a nice phone call.

If after sending it in it is not warrantied then consider contacting Devinci directly with a nice letter outlining your concerns.

The least productive thing you can be doing at the moment is whinging on the internet after on quick phone call.

Again, best of luck but do not go in all guns blazing cursing and criticizing! You never know they may turn out to be reasonable folk who sort you out regardless of what small print might say- you never know until you try!

I have a question for mcgowan: What would you have Freeborn /Devinci do about your issue?

As they say that the shim was the reason of the problem and the owners guide of Devinci do not avoid them (despite it is a very common part in bike's world)... they have to satisfy the life warranty of the frame.

Also they can change the owners guide avoiding the use of shims to prevent more cases like this, they only have to copy some other brands:

"Never use another seatpost diameter than 31.6mm or try to use a shim/
reducer between seatpost and frame."

Scott: clear and concise

This conversation is pointless. You need to send the frame in.

Excellent, thanks mcgown.

I wholeheartedly support the proposed plan of action as made by danw above and suggest that you embrace it with positivity, enthusiasm and tenacity.

😀

but tell me... did I use the correct size of components following the advices of Freeborn as they sold me the adapter for the fork???

As I'm not a Devinci employee, I'll have to refer you back to the shop that sold you the frame and headset.

Hi Dan

If I could put here their mails you would see that there is not any possibity and that the door is fully closed by them

I have assumed that I have to repare the frame. I think that this thread can be very useful to people who is riding with shims and thinks it is OK after read the owner's manual

This thread should be closed if you refuse to send the frame and start the warranty process but instead insist on complaining and dragging Devinci/ Freeborn's names through the mud while second guessing what may or may not happen.

Forget the previous emails, start fresh and positive, write a nice letter to accompany the frame when you send it in and go from there.

Even if Freeborn say no, contacting Devinci afterwards with an explanation of why you might still be upset is by far the best thing to do. No-one here can help you with that and all you are doing is trying to ruin their business even though they have not formally refused all possibilities.

P.S. Someone has already linked the Devinci small print saying use of the shim will not be covered under warranty (although a poor translation). Despite this the company/ seller may still warranty the frame at their discretion... if they see this thread then good luck with their discretion!

A thread title like "I have just learned a 27.2-31.6 shim may not be a good idea" would have been a far better thread title than "Cheated by DEVINCI/FREEBORN" if that really is your intention to increase shim awareness on STW

contacting Devinci afterwards with an explanation of why you might still be upset is by far the best thing to do

I have already contacted with Devinci and they told me to speak with Freeborn. I mailed a guy from Devinci in Canada and no reply.

And I will say it AGAIN, I am not refusing to send back the frame: they are not asking that

mcgowan » for example the first thing that they said me was to send the frame from spain and they will decide if they could raclaim under warranty... not a very friendy answer to start

From page 2, come back to us when you've done as requested 🙄

mcgowan » for example the first thing that they said me was to send the frame from spain and they will decide if they could raclaim under warranty... not a very friendy answer to start

From page 2, come back to us when you've done as requested

LoCo, you can put ALL the history, as putting only a part is a Little bit manipulator

No they asked you to send it back, you have not sent it back, they cannot give you a final answer on warranty until you have done this, it's quite simple, or are you trolling?

I agree with Loco. Do the following or this thread should be closed.

Go through Freeborn first.

Put the frame in the post with a letter explaining the situation (not a letter complaining). Keep it simple and some times less information is better. Do this even if they have not asked you to.

If Freeborn do not give a good solution, only then will Devinci be able to help- you have to go through Freeborn first.

The problem you have is that you have started a 5 page thread complaining before trying to properly resolve this... discretion and good will was likely going to be your best friend in this 50/50 situation...

The headset analogy is spot on here I'd say. Would everyone assume use of a reducer headset to void their warranty?

The headset analogy is spot on here I'd say. Would everyone assume use of a reducer headset to void their warranty?

The forces on a headset are very different to a seatpost. Using reducer shims on a headset still leaves the steerer supported at both ends of the head tube. Using a shim on a seatpost leaves the seatpost supported on only the top few inches of the seat tube.

No it's different I'd say Njee, you're not reducing the contact area between the headset cup and the frame and increasing stress on a specific area of the frame, which is what happens if you fit a shim in the frame, like running a post with too little in the frame, the flex in the small diameter post and possible deformation of the shim will add stress to a smaller area of the frame , than the correct size post with a decent amount in the frame.
Not saying it's not warranty, just the anology.

Nick, someone has already linked to Devinci's small print which (though poorly translated) says to use the original seatpost sold with the bike/ frame.

Most things in a warranty small print are there to cover the company and by and large leave a warranty to their discretion I would have said.

These are technicalities though and detracting from the main point...

The main issue is the OP is second guessing Devinci/ Freeborn's judgement/ discretion/ interpretation and has jumped straight in with complaining on an open forum. If he goes through the warranty process with Freeborn then possibly Devinci too and still has no luck after discussing the in and outs of their wording then fine- the problem is the OP seems unwilling to go through the proper process

I'd be surprised if the folk you need to be on best terms with at Freeborn AND Devinci haven't had this thread posted onto them.

If I were you I'd quit quit wasting time, go back to work to do a little overtime to pay for the new frame as you've no doubt shot yourself in the foot.

I was looking at getting an Atlas and talked to Freeborn about using a shim to fit my 30.9 Reverb

They were very clear to me that this would invalidate the warranty

not that that helps!

My experience of Freeborn for warranty issues was the total opposite of this. When I had bother with 2 seperate Mythics (the ones with the dodgy bushing system) they couldn't have been more helpful. Eventually they gave me a Dixon for just the difference in price.

Then when I broke the Dixon (snapped at chainstay) Joe at Freeborn, without seeing the frame offered several solutions on the phone. Sadly as I had stripped the paint off the Dixon I couldn't get it under warrant so didn't bother. However Joe offered me a cheap chainstay or a great deal on a new frame and it didn't have to be a Devinci either.

So for me you are being very harsh on a very reputable company. If you work with them and send it back for analysis I am sure they would do something to help you out.

Then again, after a post like this I wouldn't help you!

Good luck!

PS I used a shimmed GD on my Dixon with no problems. What I did was to cut the lip off a second shim and fit to the bottom of the seatpost so you make a stack of shims, that way the GD is the correct width for it's full length and that solves the issue.

I will explain again as some people is manipulating the reality:

- i write to freeborn saying that i have broke my Dixon's seat tube

- they reply my saying that in most cases is due to less than 3" of seatpost being in the frame. If I want to progress the warranty I have to send them the frame

- I have been using a seatpost and a shim with a correct lenght so i send photos proving that

- after 2 weeks they reply me that the use of the shim is the reason of the failure. The do not tell me anything about send frame them to investigate more and better. The only offer is to pay 350 pouds for a front triangle.

- i replay them telling where says Devinci that I can not use a shim

- they replay me that it is very clear at point 8 of the owners manual. I read again the manual and there is nothing about that. The only thing that says the manual is about to insert a minium leght inside the frame.

- i reply them that I fell cheated

So, it is not true that I were not disposed to send back the frame

What's the minimum insertion amount that the manual states?

I was looking at getting an Atlas and talked to Freeborn about using a shim to fit my 30.9 Reverb

They were very clear to me that this would invalidate the warranty

may be I am not the first with this problem and they had changed the owner's manual. That's OK but they should comply with older frames (2011)

What's the minimum insertion amount that the manual states?

"your seat post has minium insertion line wich limits the maxium height you can safely reach"

No numbers. This is an evident mistake as all the frames are not equal

repeated

Send then the frame and start again.

It's the only way you will get any joy.

That's very poorly worded. As you say, the seat post insertion mark is irrelevant particularly on this type of frame design.

That's very poorly worded. As you say, the seat post insertion mark is irrelevant particularly on this type of frame design

obviously!!!

and I made sure that the seatpost and the shims was long enough to reach the junction with the horizontal tube...

and now the people of freeborn say me that i am a por mechanic while their manual is a total rubbish!!!!

Freeborn didn't write the manual.

DanW - Member

I agree with Loco. Do the following or [b]this thread should be clo[/b]sed

hey Dan, you are free to think anything you want but let others to think themselves

if you wanna be a shepherd you can buy some sheep

Oh I still think freeborn have a point, mind given the frame design

Freeborn didn't write the manual.

yes but they are the salesman of that Brand and knowing that poor manual they can not call me bad mechanic because I used a shim like many others do

It sounds normal. Find any old crap to deny. Giant were the same and I went through the process to for them to come back with a blanket denial. In writing of course. Verbally it was different. "Happens all the time due to flex and the paint can not accommodate the movement - your frame is fine".

Giant added numerous excuses all of which I disapproved with a logical argument. In the end they said so what you've changed the seat post and therefore the warranty is no longer valid, in the T&Cs. F.O!

I would send it back but don't hold your breath.

It would seem mcgowan that you have been severely mistreated on this occasion.
Put it down to experience, move on with your life and don't allow it to haunt your every woken hour.
Life's too short to have such anger. Therapy is always good. Try yoga. Move on.

bencooper - Member

The forces on a headset are very different to a seatpost. Using reducer shims on a headset still leaves the steerer supported at both ends of the head tube. Using a shim on a seatpost leaves the seatpost supported on only the top few inches of the seat tube.

That's not quite the point here- engineering-wise it's different but not everyone is an engineer, to Joe Public they are both products that you can buy to make small things fit in big things. Why would they assume one easily-available, common part is unsafe and one isn't?

thanks for the advice iolo but don't worry

i have found a real professional to repair the frame and he will left it with my favoutite colour: raw

My yoga is the bike and now I have not any 😆

@Northwind,

Which is where the Pro mechanic clause comes in as per Devinci's owners manual.

This is all going in circles anyway, and I'll get acussed of 'manipulating' the facts, again, so will leave the thread to eat it's own tail. 😉

It's pathetic that any manufacturer would look to get out of a warranty claim if there was a 4" shim used. As a couple of folk have already pointed out, some frames come with shims pre-installed to take a custom seat-tube down to a common seatpost diameter. Thousands of folk have been using shims (on Gravity Droppers and other posts) for years so this hardly counts as a bodge.

macgowan - I do think your expectations were too much. For the expense of that frame I'd fully expect the retailer to want it back with them for inspection before doing anything with the warranty.

DanW - do you have some link to Freeborn? You come across as a bit of a fanboi 🙂

in general yes scots but you can see that the shape of that frame means it needs more than 4 " due to the weirdy triangle and where the top tube is

I have been using a seatpost and a shim with a correct lenght so i send photos proving that

- after 2 weeks they reply me that the use of the shim is the reason of the failure. The do not tell me anything about send frame them to investigate more and better. The only offer is to pay 350 pouds for a front triangle.

- i replay them telling where says Devinci that I can not use a shim

- they replay me that it is very clear at point 8 of the owners manual. I read again the manual and there is nothing about that. The only thing that says the manual is about to insert a minium leght inside the frame.

Thousands of folk have been using shims (on Gravity Droppers and other posts) for years so this hardly counts as a bodge.

It's not a bodge as such - but shims are a fix that isn't right for some frames because, especially with thick shims, they're equivalent to running with only a small amount of seatpost in the frame, putting all the stress on the very top of the seat tube.

Some frames can cope with that - frames with seatstays and top tubes that meet near the top of the seat tube generally - other frames cannot. This is the kind of thing you should have a good LBS to help and advise with, and it's a big problem with buying mail order.

No they asked you to send it back, you have not sent it back, they cannot give you a final answer on warranty until you have done this, it's quite simple, or are you trolling?

If you read what he said, it seems like they've basically already decided what caused the fault and that it's not a warranty issue without looking at it, and said 'well, you can send it back for us to have a look at if you want but you're not really going to get anywhere'.

Junkyard - lazarus

in general yes scots but you can see that the shape of that frame means it needs more than 4 " due to the weirdy triangle and where the top tube is

But Devinci don't specify a longer seatpost insertion! They specify the seatpost's own insertion, which is often 4 inches. So if it needs more than 4 inches, and that's what caused it, that's their problem. But either way the shape of the frame isn't relevant.

(question- on the original davinci seatpost provided on full builds, what's the seatpost insertion, anyone know? )

LoCo - Member

Which is where the Pro mechanic clause comes in as per Devinci's owners manual.

And also the "you must not fit any parts not provided with the bike" clause. Both of which are just 2-bit get-out clauses which no decent company should be using. What is it with lifetime warranties that seem to bring out the scumbags?

If you read what he said, it seems like they've basically already decided what caused the fault and that it's not a warranty issue without looking at it, and said 'well, you can send it back for us to have a look at but you're not really going to get anywhere'.

Alleluyah!!!!

But Devinci don't specify a longer seatpost insertion! They specify the seatpost's own insertion, which is often 4 inches. So if it needs more than 4 inches, and that's what caused it, that's their problem. But either way the shape of the frame isn't relevant.

i can say more: on this frame, it is better to use a seatpost and shim with 10 cms inside rather than a 31'6 seatpost and 3" inside.

DanW - do you have some link to Freeborn? You come across as a bit of a fanboi 🙂

No link and no Fanboi 😀 I just foolishly got sucked in to this thread late last night and foolishly thought offering (what I though) is sensible advice might help the OP.

Rather than some of the whinging here, what is the solution? I have had my input but am out of ideas 😉 No one seems to be offering solutions

Let us all pray the OP does not have Fox Forks! 😯 There are enough of those warranty threads 😆