[Closed] Warning!! old school moan about the Olympic Xc

with rob warner screaming himself hoarse while danny hart showed more balls than all the lycra posing pouches on view today

What a load of rubbish you speak.You wear what suits the sport and lycra suits cross country you dont see baggy shorts in xc racing .In fact look at old mammoth downhill videos no body armour there either.What kit is compulsory for downhill now? and isnt it just another form of timetrial ? I find downhill dull and aimed at kids who are stoked rad and gnar

Gravity enduro may represent the sport as we know it in future years.

The next Olympic cycling discipline ???

Yeh because they would look great on TV...

Gravity enduro may represent the sport as we know it in future years.

The next Olympic cycling discipline ???

very much doubt it, IOC/UCI are clear on this, man not machine. and yes i know not total consistency by their actions, then there is always the considerable issue of what gets dropped to make room? where you stage the event etc.

Oh and the fact that just because the UK is crap at XC doesn't mean that most other countries see a reason to change the format.

nick1962, i do understand where your coming from, but to me sport is something to do not watch, but yes i can see why football, Tennis, rugby et al work. What you see is what is happening there is nothing happening that you can't see.

but to me sport is something to do not watch

.

mrmo

very much doubt it, IOC/UCI are clear on this, man not machine

Sorry mrmo but how does gravity enduro represent machine more than man any more than xc? As I pointed out earlier, a top flight xc bike is a specialist race machine, and costs many thousands. Yes, Nino Schurter could show up a local race on a £500 bike and win, but he wouldn't win a World Cup on the same.

Similarly Joe Barnes or Jerome Clementez would still podium at a gravity enduro on the same £500 bike. Rider not bike.

I'm just curious to hear why you see a distinction that Enduro is so much more "about the bike" since I really doubt it'll ever be an Olympic sport and I hope the same is true for DH.

I don't understand why it seems so hard for XC fans to understand the joys of DH or vice versa. Statements like "rolling downhill" are as blinkered and idiotic as suggesting that all XCers mince downhill with their brakes on. However I've noticed that comments like this tend to come from those that are slow at whichever discipline they're denigrating.

XC is like masturbation, it's fun to do, but no one wants to watch it!

walk into a shop buy a cheap bike will it be closer to an XC bike or a DH bike. the UCI seem to have in their heads ideas of what bikes are. Hence in part the rules about what a road bike should look like, what a MTB should look like.

Reality is irrelevant.

Then what can be made to work on TV, after all you have to keep sponsors happy. Hence mtb laps getting shorter.

Then as it is a sport, XC is closer to a pure test of fitness and skill than DH, Enduro etc. yes both do demand but to the lay man less so. your just rolling downhill etc.

And finally location, where could you hold a decent enduro near london?

XC is like masturbation, it's fun to do, but no one wants to watch it!

40,000 spectators over 2 days says you are wrong.

40,000 spectators over 2 days says you are wrong.

And many of those I spoke to today had never been to a bike race, let alone an MTB race. They loved it! They really got in to it.

It was superb.

Chill out will ya, it was light hearted humour!

Humour should be funny, in case you didn't know.

Rolling down hill was a childish poke in the eye at the dopes that click onto a thread about XC racing only to slate it and suggest that XCers not ride off road at all.
There's a small part of me that says **** it. Why bother spending your free time to grow the sport though access and funding. When the greatest obstacle seems to be other mountain bikers. I have only had encouragement from the areas road clubs.

colint - Member
Ha, thanks, I'll go back to cross then.

There ends my first xc season

LOL that made Epping Forest look like a Black run lololololol

...Hence mtb laps getting shorter...

i took part in a 'mini xc' race last week; as many laps around a 2k lap* as possible in 1 hour.

it was ace!*

(*jumps and berms all over the place!)

🙂

40,000 spectators over 2 days says you are wrong.

mrmo
And finally location, where could you hold a decent enduro near london?

Nowhere. I don't think enduro would or should be in the olympics. I was simply curious why you cited "rider not bike" in relation to it.

mrmo

walk into a shop buy a cheap bike will it be closer to an XC bike or a DH bike. the UCI seem to have in their heads ideas of what bikes are. Hence in part the rules about what a road bike should look like, what a MTB should look like.

£880 will buy you a vitus escarpe. How much does a Mclaren venge or Pinarello XTRACK? or Scott Scale SL S? I don't get your point.

Then as it is a sport, XC is closer to a pure test of fitness and skill than DH, Enduro etc.

Start another thread for that one.

Edit : can't be arsed

Oldgit, I think there's a worrying amount of MTBers who have a big problem with other riders being better than them, or even worse, starting out as worse riders but getting better than them. This animosity is not good for encouraging healthy competition and improvement.

Oldgit, I think there's a worrying amount of MTBers who have a big problem with other riders being better than them, or even worse, starting out as worse riders but getting better than them. This animosity is not good for encouraging healthy competition and improvement.

You mean there are riders on here who are better than me?
That's it I'm cancelling my subscription.

Oldgit, I think there's a worrying amount of MTBers who have a big problem with other riders being better than them, or even worse, starting out as worse riders but getting better than them. This animosity is not good for encouraging healthy competition and improvement.

I dont think thats it.

I think its mbuk and that old chainspotting video. Its poisoned the minds of lots of young men into think racing a bike and wearing lycra is gay.

Fortunately, they were just joking. But they hadnt realised the people they were telling this stuff to all had really low IQ's and hence [i]they[/i] thought they were being serious.

davidtaylforth - Member

I think its mbuk and that old chainspotting video. Its poisoned the minds of lots of young men into think racing a bike and wearing lycra is gay.

anyone who remembers 'chainspotting' would be at least 30 by now.

if Xc racing has a bad image, then it's up to Xc racers to change it, if they want to...

To my mind I think a big part of it all comes down to boring old Money and what sells, and I don't think XC sells like other forms of cycling....

I think the thing that has helped other forms of cycling in recent years has been getting the commercial aspect 'right'....

Setting aside the sniping between niches I think British success in recent years in DH has to do primarily with the nature of the sport; DH has a strong commercial/sponsorship element and far less involvement/interest from national/governing bodies its much more "Team before Country" to bastardize a footballing cliche....

In a similar way BC's current road/track success is certainly built in good part around having a very beneficial sponsorship/collaboration with Sky that traditional distinction between a riders commercial sponsorship/Team and National body has been broken down to allow riders to work towards whatever goals/program works best for them... And it is working.

While XC lacks either the same Road/track joined up commercial/national model (or worse yet, any young XC prospects are just poached for Road/track) or the same level of commercial interest that DH attracts (because it basically is a 'sexier' more youth oriented sport, and hence more attractive to sponsors than XC) I can't see British XC closing the gap on other nations...

Humour should be funny, in case you didn't know.

And you are? How unintentionally amusing.

it's quite amusing this thread

a few comments from the slightly grubby grass roots

XC racing is different from the road race/ CX scene as road races/CX are run by clubs or regional associations with decent infrastructures, a culture of volunteering time and are not run by professionals earning a living from it.

XC racing is dominated by series run by companies for profit. There are a few notable club run series but there is no strength in depth. The commercial organiser looks at the racing differently and frequently cancels events leaving gaps in an already sparse calendar.

but being commercial brings other issues, everyone wants their cut, volunteer run organisations have the subtle power of getting everyone to muck in because it's the right thing to do.

XC racing needs venues, these are the hardest thing to find and develop, however organistions FC, LA's are finging cash to create trails on the land they own. They love working with the "community" (that will be volunteers again.) so if you have an idea go and talk to them. We were talking to LCC about racing before Lee Quarry opened.

On the whole the mtb orientated media (print and web) have disowned XC racing. The 2012 Welsh XC series dissappeared after 2 cancelled races, no reportage on that anywhere. Nothing on who's who, and race reporting which essentially an organisers own report (if you are lucky enough to get anything published, although the two pages we managed in 2009 in MBUK still stand out)

As for British Cycling, I'm sure they do a lot. But if you want them to make it happen you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The structure is good, there are some very helpful people and plenty who aren't

2012 XC racing finished....

not likely two races left 2nd Sept and 14th Oct

...and no you will not be pushing through the mud

what's it like?

see what Pete from Orange thought about it http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/news/view/Round_2_Brownbacks_Hope_XC

video here (with lots of mincing, shame they don't take up the free coaching offer)

easy racing XC? ask a series winner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG5I1QL_brw&feature=related

plenty of videolets here
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrownbacksRacing?feature=watch

mrmo - Member

GW serious question, novice level is it reasonable to do well, win without spending money? beyond the obvious helmet, etc.

From where i sit i see the entry equipment hurdle being pretty high. i don't see many on cheap hard tails, I know back in the day steve peat was winning on a hard tail but that was then not now, just looking at the coverage etc it suggests Full suspension bikes, lots of pads etc.

The most expensive part of DH racing is the fuel/entry costs, depending on location each race can easily cost you around £200 for the weekend all in.

if Xc racing has a bad image, then it's up to Xc racers to change it, if they want to...

Yep, and as this thread shows, they don't want to. In five years, the XC National Champs will just be three angry people wobbling around Thetford....

xc bridlewaybiking is brown bread. suck it up.

Only read the first two pages, but can't help feeling some of the miserable, bitter, divisive moaning and sniping from some of those who apparently love XC racing might not be the best way to encourage people to get into it. In fact people with those attitudes may well be a big part of the problem.

Pretty sad TBH.

Not sure what you mean by that?
XC is alive and well for those that want to do it.
XC racers I know love XC racing as it is.
Clubs and individuals like myself are doing their best to find venues and encourage more people into it.

The problem is that there is a lot of hostility within the mountain biking fraternity towards XC simply because they don't like it. Their answer is to change it or simply don't do it.
Now just look at that. Here I am, I love XC. And what I understand is that they want me to spend my time changing the sport to suit them and turn it into something I don't want to do. I know how TJ felt now.

So guys those that want to see changes and still contribute to greater success in the future as that's what this thread is about. What are you doing about it, I mean what is you actual contribution apart from moaning and going on and on about what mincers myself and all the XC guys and girls are?

And grum also on that note, If I'm taking out new riders that want to get into XC I never ever in anyway put down any other form of off road riding. In fact if doing other stuff improves their race skills then I'll encourage them to do it. I often point guys towards Tony at Woburn.

XC racing needs venues, these are the hardest thing to find and develop, however organistions FC, LA's are finging cash to create trails on the land they own. They love working with the "community" (that will be volunteers again.) so if you have an idea go and talk to them. We were talking to LCC about racing before Lee Quarry opened.

This is what I'm doing at the moment. We have got a yes on a venue, but it is totally flat. There is woodland on the site and remnants of an old MX course. I need to look at it again. I met there with British Cycling and other club reps and they gave it the go ahead.
However its pretty grass roots - cheap midweek series?

MTB XC is the poor relation everywhere not just here. There's no big money sponsorship in it so the racers aren't paid well so where's the attraction when at the very top level you likely have a chance of making it on the road instead? I'm sure Absalon and a few others make a decent enough living from it but very few do.
In this country we'd need BC to take it seriously and fund it properly to start developing the depth of talent needed and they have enough proven cycling disciplines already to invest the cash they have. Funding XC would be a 5-10 year project before they got serious payback and even then you're talking 2 gold medals at most (and national funding is all about medal payback).

oldgit - Member
So you don't like XC kimbers.
I assume that's Danny hart, haven't a clue who the girl is?
Each to their own, I;ve never seen a downhill race, I have seen snippets.
You have to get into the head of some racers. To me rolling downhill has no value whilst hurting myself going uphill gives me a buzz.

granted i dont think watching xcraces is very exciting and i much prefer racing, dh,enduro, mega type stuff to xc racing (im equally bad at all of them )
but xc riding is the most accessible to most people and i love a good xc blast

my point was that DH is more expensive for the bike, kit and uplift, harder to get to venues- fuel is crazy

and yet the uk has been churning out world class dhers for pretty much since the golden era of xc racers mentioned at the start

dh has sustained that level while xc has dwindled

perhaps xc needs to emulate dh more, i suppose that needs mag coverage, sponsors and youd want to do something to get youngsters hooked- work with schools, youth groups, scouts etc, unis seem to have good xc clubs? and maybe just maybe ............ban lycra (runs and hides behind wall)

Kimbers, i understand what your saying but this is the crucial point.

If we are trying to get good world class XC racers then what is the point in trying to create something that no other country recognises as XC?

Would a good Enduro/DH racer win an XC olympic medal?

Yes play with the XC format, but at the end of the day XC is what it is and if you want to get world class riders you have to have them used to racing on XC courses.

and maybe just maybe ............ban lycra (runs and hides behind wall)

lycra is fine, just ban technical and feed zones, that will get rid of the skinsuits

allowing outside support is if us completely against the ethos of xc mtbing, it should be no outside help, no cashing of bottles, no spare wheels etc

all the "we'll get dehydrated" bluff is simply answered by pointing out that you can get 3 litres in a hydration system

it's also a barrier to some as it assists those with deep pockets and family/ friends against the lone privateer

This is what I'm doing at the moment. We have got a yes on a venue, but it is totally flat. There is woodland on the site and remnants of an old MX course.

I need to look at it again. I met there with British Cycling and other club reps and [b]they gave it the go ahead[/b].
However its pretty grass roots - cheap midweek series?

why do you need their permission? BC have no say-so as long as you run to their rules if being insured by them. Regional committees should be coordinating/ advising not giving the "go-ahead"

walleater - Member

and as this thread shows, they don't want to. In five years, the XC National Champs will just be three angry people wobbling around Thetford....

we'll still be running then 😉

Not sure what you mean by that?

What I mean is, that it's probably counter productive to be moaning on about how XC racing is the only form of 'proper' mountain biking, and if you're not into it it's because you're a lazy, pathetic follower of marketing hype.

The kind of 'you stupid kids with all your freeride rubbish, and you fat losers with your 6 inch travel bikes, what's wrong with you' attitude espoused by some in this thread isn't likely to endear people to XC racing.

What are you doing about it, I mean what is you actual contribution apart from moaning and going on and on about what mincers myself and all the XC guys and girls are?

I'm doing nothing, because it's not really my thing - I have done a few enduro type races but XC racing doesn't really appeal. And yes it's partly because I'm not fit enough (and I don't particularly like riding skinny tired bikes with the saddle right up my arse) - I don't see why I should be vilified for that. Although lots of the comments seem to be from people who I'm assuming have never ridden DH given their ignorance about how physically demanding it can be.

I also don't think I've ever called XC guys mincers - I've ridden with a few people who've competed in XC at a decent level and they all had superb technical skills. I do think it's massively lame to see people n XC races walking technical sections though.

walleater - Member
and as this thread shows, they don't want to. In five years, the XC National Champs will just be three angry people wobbling around Thetford....

we'll still be going then 😉

so that's 130 people racing on big berms, table tops, doubles, drops, down great singletrack and up tough climbs then, and no angry people (we ask angry people to lighten up or not to come back)

anyone who thinks you needa ton of money to buy a bike to race xc and be competitive is so wrong...

My current bike, which I race, and can get into the top ten of the local series in vets... is a 96 kona hei hei, ok in 96 it was a £1000 frame but the bike cost me less than £600 to put together (incl frame, sid world cups, m952 xtr groupset) it weighs less than some of the bikes being raced at hadleigh, and is fun to ride too... If I hadnt of wanted the frame so much I could prob have knocked another £100 £150 off the cost.

Its very apparent that watching the crowds over the weekend that xc racing is considerably more popular in europe and the US than the UK - you only had to see the 2 trainloads of Gunn Rita Dahl fans to realise that.. If the Olympics were in france I doubt many of us would have actually bothered to go see annie and liam race at all...

Ive been xc racing since the mid 90s, its heyday I guessm foot and mouth put a stop to is around 2000 and after that it never really recovered. A lot of places dont actually exist anymore, venues like Rats closed down I think due to costs and some places dont get used due to the local clubs not existing anymore...

Whereas I used to be able to race virtually every weekend with an hour or sos driving, Ive now got to drive for anyithng up to 4 hours and am lucky if I can find 2 races a month...

I always struggle to understand XC as a sport, and I mainly ride XC. But I ride it the way I did as a child - I'm pretending I've got a dirt bike, but lacking an engine I'll use gravity. If up-then-down speed was the aim then a CX bike is going to be faster, but I endure the climbs in order to rag the descents. Designing a race *lap* where a mountain bike will be a faster option than a CX bike must be tricky.

(Gravity?) Enduro (as I've heard it explained) probably best represents the pass-time of "climbing to descend", and really makes the "mountain bike" distinct from a "CX bike with 90mm travel in the fork" - possibly it's the way to go to represent non-DH mountain biking as a sport?