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Might be time to replace our 2010 Diesel Caravelle. It’s great for long haul etc but increasingly it’s being used for school runs and local trips with the odd long run to the Peaks or France (I’m in Kent).
the DPF thing is becoming a bit annoying so thinking either a full petrol van, a plug in hybrid or full electric.
interested in any real world experience of any of them. Anyone got the Multivan or ID Buzz?
Are they just as good for bike, dog and child carrying? Main issues or benefits?
I parked next to a buzz in my T5 the other day. it was tiny in comparison.
I have a ibuzz gtx 7 seater. It’s… fine. I have a wife, 3 kids and often a mother in law in it. We managed Dumfries to London at the beginning of Jan in about 3*c temps with 2 stops (everyone wearing coats and minimal heating). Was a very chilled out drive, many many years ago I owned an AMG C63 estate and used to do that drive a lot and probably drove faster than I should have. I’d get to London feeling quite wired. Whereas in the ibuzz I just kept it on cruise control and felt relatively fresh when I got to London.
It drives much like a much smaller car than it is but the floaty ride has made my daughter feel quite car sick and she won’t ride in the back.
It feels like it was a bit expensive for the quality of finish inside, but I preferred it to the big Kia ev7, which was the other car I test drove.
I have the 6 seat Buzz GTX. Love it. Mad acceleration for its size which can be fun. The 6 seat is great as you can remove the rear seats and have a long tunnel down the middle. 4 people, 4 bikes are no problem. Bikes will fit upright fully assembled. Large sun roof is nice. Comfortable seats as well. I am very happy with it. However if it hadn't been a company car, there is no way i'd pay the list price.
Had a multivan as a courtesy car for a month. Diesel. Have to say was not impressed. Small inside despite being big outside, very rattly and lots of poor interior trim. Not brilliant on motorway, was quite wandery.
Take a look at the new Kia PV5 as an alternative to the ID Buzz. It's getting incredible reviews and is around £25-30K cheaper than the Buzz! Looks like a great base for a camper and apparently quite a few UK conversion companies are working on that. It's standard vehicle to load/inverter and electric heater means there's no need to fit expensive aftermarket electrics and a diesel heater to have gas free cooking and heating.
I’ve looked at these extensively as I’d really like to replace our Velle. Neither is anywhere near as practical as a velle. Both are smaller, the interior on the buzz is crippled by the fixed nature of the middle row and the multivan lacks the rugged nature of the velle. Its seats are also weird: you can spec individual seat belts attached to the seats, but that doesn’t delete the c-pillar mounted belts that you’d like to dispense with as they’re a trip hazard getting into the rear.
Both are riddled with car operating systems that are either annoying or are likely to leave you stranded at the side of the road with the handbrake locked on. There’s so many posts about “have you got this version of the firmware, it cures %some random fault% but also introduces %some other random fault%”
I keep running through the configurator for the t7 Caravelle (shuttle replacement)/ transit custom tourneo, but the prices it comes out with are hideous. For now I’ve decided to stick with ours. The Kia looks good.
Glad the PV5 is getting good reviews, but think the 5 seater suffers from the same issue as the Buzz i.e. don't fold into the floor or fold forward to create a flat load space.
I think the PV5 might still be tall.enough to take bikes upright though, and definitely going in rear wheel first.
Read that the 6 or 7 will offer more flexibility though so fingers crossed for options to have a long,.flat load space.
We had a PV5 test and it was a great drive, really well thought out and spacious for the external dimensions - the only downside was the stupid lump of a minimal folding / non-removable back seat (just like the VW). Much cheaper than the Buzz but not amazingly cheap, and no discounts at the moment due to limited supply.
We managed Dumfries to London at the beginning of Jan in about 3*c temps with 2 stops (everyone wearing coats and minimal heating). Was a very chilled out drive, many many years ago I owned an AMG C63 estate
I'd imagine the journey didn't cost much more in the AMG if you had to charge twice at service stations.
Imagine it's 2026 and you are driving the very latest in car tech in winter - and all have to wear coats because you can't have the heating on 😂
EV's have to improve for me to consider one
I'd imagine the journey didn't cost much more in the AMG if you had to charge twice at service stations.
Except that for the rest of the year, you are benefiting from cheap home charging.
However, driving without fully utilising the heating…thought that was something only ICE drivers think you have to do in EVs! I certainly didn’t do it when I had an electric van, unless I’d pushed my luck a bit far and needed to eek out a few extra miles to safely reach home or the next charger!
Read that the 6 or 7 will offer more flexibility though so fingers crossed for options to have a long,.flat load space.
I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that means the whole floor will be lifted to allow the seats to all fold into it. So you get the flat floor, but lose height
Neighbours have a Buzz. They like it for 6 people plus dog trips with the grandkids, but they use their BMW with tow bar rack for bike duties.
Was down in Cornwall last week, saw a lot of Multivans, but being used as people carriers, not bike/surf vans. We christened them Fat Sharans. Sure there's a market for that size vehicle, but I couldn't help thinking that if I bought one I'd end up wishing I'd got a LWB Combi
Just on the EV topic, which I know this isn't.... this scenario of people driving around without heating seems insane. I've been driving purely EV now (due to work) for over a year, something like 20-25k miles, including trips to Ardnamurchan (i.e. 'difficult' trips with low charger density) and never once have I done this. I haven't even used efficiency mode. Genuinely don't know what people think they're like versus what they are like!
Re VW, comments about the software aspects very true, VW aren't in a great place and it's showing.
Just watching that PV5 video as was curious. Two things I really don't get.
When you've got a range constrained vehicle with the aero properties of a barn door, which people are going to want to do family holidays and big days out in, why would you not allow it to ultra rapid charge like the EV6 etc?
And poor headlights, really not much excuse for that these days. I guess that may be relative.
It’s a budget van turned into an MPV so spec’d as such
Just on the EV topic, which I know this isn't.... this scenario of people driving around without heating seems insane. I've been driving purely EV now (due to work) for over a year, something like 20-25k miles, including trips to Ardnamurchan (i.e. 'difficult' trips with low charger density) and never once have I done this. I haven't even used efficiency mode. Genuinely don't know what people think they're like versus what they are like!
On my second EV and I'm the same. Never even consider not using the heater or anything else for that matter. I do use the Eco mode on my current iX1 but only because it makes it more docile around town and ramps up the brake regen which I like.
Just on the EV topic, which I know this isn't.... this scenario of people driving around without heating seems insane. I've been driving purely EV now (due to work) for over a year, something like 20-25k miles, including trips to Ardnamurchan (i.e. 'difficult' trips with low charger density) and never once have I done this. I haven't even used efficiency mode. Genuinely don't know what people think they're like versus what they are like!
^ this.
I'm only 5 weeks into EV ownership, but why would you drive cold? Just stop 10 mins early to charge.
Have a Buzz, but had a multivan for two and a half months as a courtesy car when our local garage bricked it attempting to fix a broken sound system. That brings me to my first point applicable to both - VW have stuffed complex electronics into these cars faster than they have trained their mechanics to fix them. I suspect they will both be overall less reliable than your old caravel due to the sheer number of systems in a new car than can fail. I suspect this is an industry wide problem.
I prefer the buzz, but a lot goes for personal preference. Compared; they are both great vans. The first thing is after we got the multivan as a courtesy car I was surprised how expensive it was. Inside felt cheap with a sea of beige plastic and some quite large "panel gaps" on the interior.
The main downside for us was that the multivan was very noisy inside compared with the buzz. It wasn't the engine noise but road noise and there was a subtle but annoying echo when people in the front seats spoke. This may have been associated with the panoramic roof.
Both vans have split A-pillars to improve visibility. The one in the buzz does, but the two pillars in the Multivan are so close together on the one nearest the driver I couldn't see through it at all, so it was just a giant blind spot. I'm 6'2 - this may be better if you are shorter as you will be further forward and lower down both of which should open up the angles. (On that note the multivan is generally poor for a long-legged driver - I couldn't get the steering wheel comfortably far back and the drivers side wing mirror wouldn't point quite far enough out. Neither of these will be issues if you aren't so tall!).
Other things that probably go either way;
- As said the Buzz seats dont come out. They do "tumble" forward (in a 2:1 splin) in the 7 seater to allow rear passengers in. With the twin seat tumbled we can get an XL enduro 29er and a large 29er XC bike in with the wheels on.
- On the multivan you can take the seats out, but they are huge and implausibly heavy; you won't want to be takeing the second row in and out often!
- They both have annoying screen based controls for heated seats and sliders under it for audio and climate. Rubbish in both, marginally less so in the buzz as the bigger screen means they are a tiny bit easier to hit.
- The buzz has touch sensitive steering wheel controls whilst the multivan has real buttons. I thought I would prefer the buttons on the multivan but never really got on with them - they were a bit mushy and for whatever reason the layout never felt natural to me even at the point when we had had the multivan longer than the buzz.
- The buzz driver's screen is fairly minimalist (and complemented on most by a heads up display which is great). I love it as it shows you what you need when driving without distraction.
- The multivan has a giant drivers display with lots of fancy graphics. It looks really snazzy, but I found that if I wanted anything other than the speed (e.g. cruise control setting) it was distracting as there was a lot of visual "noise".
- One is electric.
- For me the environmental choice on this made it intolerable to get another ICE vehicle. I don't have children, but I'd like my friends' children to enjoy their lives - given the exponential nature of global warming that won't happen if we don't cut out carbon agressively.
- We had a diesel multivan. It managed 40 mpg on a good day. I would hate to have to feed a petrol one!
- The worst I have had out of the buzz was 2 mi/kwh on a run from calais to the Alps in December doing 130 kph whenever possibly (i.e. the vast majority of the way). Most of the time we get high 2s in the UK. That would be expensive at motorway service chargers, but home charging is very cheap and there are cheap fast chargers on most routes if pay attention.
- Because the buzz is such a brick, at the kind of speeds you are going when you care about range heating is at most a couple of percent of the power draw; you don't need to drive round wrapped up!
Echo all the multivan comments above.
re VW I’ve recently finished an 8 month debacle with VW and an ID7 that was truly borked. Blame the software stack and poor dealer network.
Completely understand the over complexity of cars now. Our T6.1 has a lot of it but fortunately its actual buttons for most other day to day controls and climate so no need to wade through touch screens. It's permanently connected to the net so some software updates are automatic but mostly for the navigation and mapping.
The seats are massively heavy especially the 3 seat bench but it can be taken out and we have replaced it with a slider for bikes. Having fixed seats would be awkward and having said this. Having had a Caddy Maxi, I think it was better for general bike and people moving.
The Kia looks good.
Hi Stevie Wonder.
I've been half looking at a Buzz but its just not big enough for us vs our SWB transporter having had a poke about in a friends.
We have a 2009 LWB Caravelle and its industrial nature has prompted us to think about replacements several times, ideally an EV as we love our old Tesla. However, we can’t find anything that ticks all the boxes yet, it’s nice having an older van we aren’t precious about, can quickly lob loads of bikes straight in the back, seat 5 people (we removed 2 seats so bikes!) and just crack on. We are going to hold on and see what comes along in the next couple of years. 🙂
Hi Stevie Wonder
According to my children the Kia “makes our van look like it’s from the 80’s”. I assume this harsh judgement isn’t just reserved for Berlingos
May I suggest the Stellantis people carriers ? They do come in electric or dino juice. I went dino juice as it's only really used for trips, although it does allow me to drive to work when needed using the multi-storey. Mine is the top Elite Vivaro Life, with the 7 seat and table option. This means three of the seats can be removed by me, and just needs assistance with the 'double'. The two singles can be turned round to create a 'lounge'. No software issues, has buttons etc.
We looked at the Multivan, California and Buzz earlier this year, looking to combine our 2013 T5 camper and one of our cars. Each of the options was great, with the lasting impression being that the Multivan / California interiors were far more adaptable and comfortable than that of the Buzz. I do like the style of the Buzz, but it offers less space and practicality for the outlay.
In the end the most convincing option was the California. However, with the cash gap being so colossal and our existing T5 being so nice, we decided to replace one of the cars instead.
The likes of the Buzz, Multivan, PV5 etc are all too nice inside for my use - the cargo/carrying area that is. Current Transit Custom DCIV ('Kombi') is ideal with a plush-enough cabin with basic lined cargo area. Nothing new seems to offer that sort of bike/surf van setup currently.
Another fellow 'active lifestyle van' owner here.
I got all exctied by the ID:Buzz when my emplyoer launched our Sal Sac scheme - I thought this was going to be the change to replace my older Mercedes with something bang modern.
However there are two issues.
Range. And Size.
I love electric cars and spent a long time designing electric vehicles but for my use case (and a 'typical' use case for someone wanting to buy this kind of lifestyley van type thing) they just do not work yet. But you can make your own mind up, as many others have here.
But then the size. The ID Buzz despite appearing 'transporter or transit' sized on the outside is actually 'caddy or connect' sized on the inside. This, basically, completely ruled it out.
And now, I havent driven one yet but the PV5 bascially is a better value version of the same thing.
The multivan however is much closer - a very nice 'car' based vehicle. You need to sit in one to see what you think, its way bigger and more practical inside than the old people carriers like a Sharan but not *quite* as square and capacious as a caravelle.
My money for a Caravelle replacement would be going here if I had it:
https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/tourneo-custom#intro
The 2.5 Petrol/Hybrid drivetrain is really nice for mixed and town work, same as they use in the Kuga.
I dont have the money, but I have just replaced my old Viano (so very similar to your T5 Caravelle) with a much newer Ford Tourneo but a regular diesel, because I only really do long journeys so a nice moder clean Euro 6.2 diesel is by a long way, still the best option.
The 2.5 Petrol/Hybrid drivetrain is really nice for mixed and town work, same as they use in the Kuga.
That's what a mate's recently bought - a 12mth old MSRT dual-cab L2 version with that drivetrain. He's over the moon with it. I'm chuffed for him as it means I'll have decent, genuine feedback on what it's like to live with the PHEV for a similar use case as me.
Hi Stevie Wonder
According to my children the Kia “makes our van look like it’s from the 80’s”. I assume this harsh judgement isn’t just reserved for Berlingos
The Kia looks like something from a 70s sci-fi film set 100 years in the future. Its absolutely gopping from every angle. Seems to be a Kia trait though - they kinda went from laughable Korean tat to making well designed, good priced cars and are now going the other way with things which are just too over-modern (if thats such a thing). Hyundai are (unsurprsingly) doing the same.
Just to chime on petrol Vs diesel - the difference between petrol and diesel health-related pollution is much closer than in the past, whilst the CO2 emissions, especially in a van, remain far better in a diesel. You'd have to be doing really quite a lot of town driving to justify a PHEV over a diesel I think. Petrol only would be a wild choice. If pollution metrics matter that much to you then EV is the way to go.
Aren't the new Transits (and therfore Transporter) stupid wide though?
The main downside for us was that the multivan was very noisy inside compared with the buzz. It wasn't the engine noise but road noise and there was a subtle but annoying echo when people in the front seats spoke. This may have been associated with the panoramic roof.
Ha, comedy! Ok next time you’re in one put the radio on, then turn the volume down 1 notch. At the top of the screen a small icon will appear that looks like a row of bus seats. Press this. It reveals the secret voice enhancer volume control. You can then adjust how much your voice is amplified to the rear passengers through the audio system. Pretty sure that’s the source of your echo. Standard fit on Velles and multivans for years. Buzz Gtx has it too iirc.
Just seen a thing on YouTube with Combe Valley Campers doing a conversion on a PV5. Apparently they can take a pop-top, but it has to be the wrong way round because of a Kia spec for retaining the cabin structure (or something).
Butt... PV5 campers cann be/are a reality, which is nice. I'm interested to see what they do with the inside and the electrics, especially given the battery to load and inverter options you can get with them.
"But then the size. The ID Buzz despite appearing 'transporter or transit' sized on the outside is actually 'caddy or connect' sized on the inside. This, basically, completely ruled it out.
And now, I havent driven one yet but the PV5 bascially is a better value version of the same thing. "
Having had a caddy (maxi), looked at buzz (cargo) quite heavily, and then got a PV5 cargo instead, the PV5 is far more generous inside - more boxy and far lower floor - it's much more like a swb transit custom than a caddy, but with an even lower floor.
No idea what the comparative passenger versions are like, mind. Mine only needs to carry bikes (which it's very good at!).
@hungrymonkey What is the real-world range like in the PV5? Anything that stands out as obviously a ballache?
Just seen a thing on YouTube with Combe Valley Campers doing a conversion on a PV5. Apparently they can take a pop-top, but it has to be the wrong way round because of a Kia spec for retaining the cabin structure (or something).
I've seen that (or similar) too - good to see alternative platforms being considered in addition to the usual VW/Ford suspects. It'll make for a smaller-than-T5/6 sized camper though but perhaps this is groundwork for the larger Kia PV7 and PV9 that are due in the next few years.
PV7 (concept) is quoted as 5.27m long, 2.1m height and 2.06m wide, so very similar to a L2 Transit Custom. One of those with a Kombi/DCIV setup, keeping a proper functional cargo area, would be interesting to see if they can give it much better range than the current eTransit Custom.
PV9 appears to be even bigger and more akin to full size Transit/Crafter equivalent, so a good base for the typical larger factory conversions.
I'm getting a solid 200 miles in the cold and wet, but it's rare that I'm taking the battery below 15% nor charging to 100, so day to day 160 miles, but will go further if I need
@willard not much obvious, it's pretty good. I don't find the seats overly comfortable on long motorway drives and the arm rests end up at different heights - the left is on the seat the right is on the door.
There's a lack of effective rain gutters too haha
But... It's lovely to drive, quiet, cheap, smooth, good room in the back, and charges quickly enough if needed on the motorway. Oh, and half the price of a buzz, so it's a no brainer for me (as I was looking specifically for an electric van).
PV5 crew van sounds imminent. Unfortunately from previous videos, I think the rear seat might just flip up and the bulkhead is fixed.
https://www.kiapressoffice.com/releases/1972
Snoeks do an interesting folding seat and bulkhead, with an electric concept shown for the Buzz.
https://snoeks.com/news-items/12570/
The Kia looks like something from a 70s sci-fi film set 100 years in the future. Its absolutely gopping from every angle.
I think it looks great. Most other vans look very similar and in some cases almost identical, whoever makes them. At least the PV5 stands out from the crowd a bit. I can see how it's a bit of a marmite design in the looks department, but I really like it. Kia's build quality, reliability, 7 year warranty and keen pricing is all pretty compelling too. I'm not in the market for an electric van atm, but if I was, Kia would be getting my money.