Now imagine a coil, with even less breakaway force 😛 but yeah the difference between my coil Pike and my dads Lyrik in terms of grip and support was pretty big. So if the luftkappe improves on the Lyrik then its going to be a huge upgrade over the standard Pike....as was my coil conversion....which was pretty ridiculous...I couldnt go back to a standard Pike now.
Really looking forward to getting my DHX2 installed on the rear to get the Reign feeling more balanced in terms of performance now.
The FAST damping tune did things that the coil conversion didn't though, so I wouldnt write off a damping tune totally. It made the fork a fair bit livelier, more reactive to successive hits and more supportive - as well as giving me finer damping adjustments to LSC and HSC. Personally, I have yet to ride a better fork now in the 20 years Ive been riding - it used to be wooden, sticky, dangerously lacking grip in the wet and harsh through rock gardens...compared to a set of 36 Vans....pretty much nothing to write home about.
the standard pike was no match for my coil IL, it really was disproportionate front and rear. The luftkappe makes such a difference that its a lot more balanced. The fact I can't identify any weakness in my current set up suggests that either my pike is set up as best as I can get it or I still don't have a clue lol. I feel the 240 for the fast damper would just be a waste. This of course is my bike, my trails and my skill level. I would like to try what a coil conversion would be like but can't justify money for it.
Don't bother if you're happy with the fork, it was little details as well that made me happy - for example with the standard damper, the LSC adjuster changes things very little throughout the range and then dramatically alters the damping towards the end of the closed side. You get 24 clicks of LSC adjustment with the fast mod, instead of 16 - and the change between each click is much much more linear throughout the range. The HSC adjuster is the same, lots of very linear clicks - and it really affects the midstroke and deep stroke performance. This all means that you can just get it that little bit closer to your idea of the perfect balance. I've also found that since the mod, I haven't had one blown damper - before I'd had three in 6 months, now I've had 8 months of spotless performance, although I've also updated the fork with the 2016 Lyrik seal head.
It's not for everyone, it's expensive yes - but it's more palatable given the crazy prices of Fox 36s and the fact that the cost includes a service. I would say that if you move to a coil, the ability to adjust high speed compression is even more of an asset as you lose the ability to adjust bottom out resistance.
I don't run any LSC
Are you quite light poah?
[quote=poah ]I don't run any LSC
I'm almost running none as well, will try none tomorrow
Tom_W1987 - MemberAre you quite light poah?
about 80kg kitted up I think.
You see, I'm 80KG and my issue with the Pike was that - no LSC = too divey, decent amount of LSC = spikey and lacked traction and the settings inbetween fully open and 5 from full closed made stuff all difference - if you notice a difference between a couple of clicks from full open and open - you're noticing a placebo I reckon.
With the FAST tune, I'm running what feels like 5 from full closed on a standard setup - and I get no harsh feedback - it's sodding great.
was intrigued by the fast tune
but the luftkappe upgrade 60 quid + 2 quid ebay golf clamp is a bargain considering how much difference it makes, not gonna bother now
im 90kg running 2 clicks of compression now and its spot on
the evol upgrade on the rear is another story............
for the trails I'm running at the moment, 30% sag is fine. If I'm going to do steeper stuff I'll add more air. with the standard pike I found LSC just ruined the small bump with limited effect on brake dive. This was particularly evident at FW WC track. With more air it was a lot more stable and had more small bump sensitivity compared to adding LSC.
I was running 70psi before the luftkappe but no idea of sag, I just added the same amount of pressure when I fitted it.
This is what FAST say and it ties in with my experience....
However, whilst it outperforms it predecessor it still has flaws. At Fast Suspension we undertook rigorous testing on this product and our observations were:-
1. The low speed compression range is limited as: of the 15 positions available, only the first 5 (from the completely closed position) have any impact. After these first 5 positions very little actually changes.
2. The recovery of the fork in the transition between compression and rebound is not adequate due to the compression piston and check design.
3. The ports of compression piston are enormous and regardless of the valve specification the compression characteristic will only vary marginally.
I reckon by bumping the pressure up, you were helping the fork react better to successive hits Poah. Running 30 percent sag is going to cause the fork to be a bit slower than it could be to react I recon, combined with bumping the damping up then yeah...it'll get spikier feeling.
I run 20-22 percent of sag.
I run quite slow rebound although I couldn't tell you how many clicks.
The increase in pressure was to counter brake dive on the steep sections of the trails at fort William.
I'm note sure soft compression and slow rebound plays well together, especially if you're running that much sag. Different manufacturers have different ways of holding the suspension up so that it can react to successive hits more easily, Ohlins supposedly relies more on compression from what I've been told - where as others rely on rebound to hold the fork up high. So open compression, fast rebound - or heavier compression and slower rebound.
If neither can do that job, then you're running the worst possible setup - as neither are keeping the fork riding in it's optimal position.
I'm not sure that I am right, but I reckon it's worth having a play with your setup.
my set up fine for what I ride. I'll maybe try one or two clicks faster rebound to see the difference but I ride a lot of rooty rocky trails so fast rebound isn't great. personal preference though.
1. The low speed compression range is limited as: of the 15 positions available, only the first 5 (from the completely closed position) have any impact. After these first 5 positions very little actually changes.
have to say I agree totally I was always able to feel a difference from 0-5 clicks but after that it was lockout or nowt!
(ive gone from 4 - 2 with the vorsprung)
Lockon or nowt? Kimbers - They mean from fully closed....from closed is considered the first position or position 0, because Motocross and Motosports habits have crossed over to MTB.
So if I've understood you correctly, you seem to have had the opposite experience to me and FAST.
EDIT: I think I just misunderstood you. 😛
Just goes to show how even people of the Samish weight have vastly different set ups for their forks.
Without cost and user serviceability overshadowing between the Vorsprung Luftkappe and the fast upgrade, which gives the better performance and improvement over the divey pikes?
Took my 5 out yesterday for the first time this year, fork is lovely over general small bumps, but like most it dives through its travel when pushed moderately.
Heavy rider here at 100kg kitted up.
Pikes are also overdue a full service, noticed today they clunk at topout when lifting the front up.
Try the Luftkappe - it's cheaper. I couldn't say - but the spring side is usually the best place to start.
I felt that my coil conversion for the Pike made the biggest difference, it's probably the same for the Luftkappe.
The FAST damper will allow you to run more low speed compression though, without it feeling harsh - 100kg does mean that you're probably out of the weight range for the standard compression tune.
if you are sending your pike to TFtuned for a service get them to fit a luftkappe and reshim your damping.
Supposedly with a new piston, a reshim doesn't make much difference - FAST/TF Tuned do a reshim and piston upgrade option only as well, which is about 60 quid more than a standard service.
luftkappe is +60 on a service and a reshim is £50 on top of a service. reshiming will make a difference depending on the rider I suppose.
So my Lyriks are due a service and they are ace.
I'm 90kgs and running 3 tokens at 60psi.
Will this be a worthwhile upgrade whilst they are at Tftuned getting some love?
From reading this thread it's a massive improvement on Pikes but not so much on the Lyrik
Will I get more support on steep techy descents.?
it will make a difference on the lyric but not as much compared to the pike as the lyric has a larger negative air spring. It will provide more mid stroke support because you will be using more air pressure.
Soap.
I'm 70kg and running 75psi in my lyriks think you may need at least 85 🙂
I've not done the Luftkappe mod to Pikes but done 2 sets of Lyriks, one for 90kg rider (in full kit), one for a 70kg rider. We've both felt a very noticeable difference in the small bump sensitivity. We hit some fairly big stuff and it has really improved the support. Money well spent.
Had a proper run out yesterday at comrie croft. The black run had some proper steel rocky features and the trail is fairly rocky and rooty. Before I was running 70psi which was about 25ish sag, running the same pressure which gives about 30psi. The fork is much better over the small hits, holds up better with little dive under braking or decending. Before if I ran 30%sag the fork was wallowly and not supportive.
This is me mincing down the black trail - contains scenes of vulgar language and pig torture.
Are your handlebars on back to front and is that a herd of geese following you? 😀
bars?
The geese appear to be furious whenever that have to run downhill! 😉
I think you made the right move keeping the pressure the same and running more sag. It's taken me quite a few rides and some arm pump on Welsh uplifts to come to the same conclusion! Rocks make suspension tuning much easier...
I'm not even yanking the geese hard either 🙁
I think you made the right move keeping the pressure the same and running more sag. It's taken me quite a few rides and some arm pump on Welsh uplifts to come to the same conclusion! Rocks make suspension tuning much easier...
Hes running the same sag and more pressuure though? I dont thinking running more sag would improve the midstroke - probably make it worse due to the larger negative spring pulling the fork into its travel more easily.
Same pressure which gives more sag
I'm wondering if the luftkappe coupled with an andreani piston kit would be a sweet mix for heavy riders?
Although I personally think the andreani kit is expensive for what you get.
Anybody used polishedracing? One of my mates is good mates with these guys and recommends them, who recommended the Andreani kit.
Edit just seen this on polishedracings FB page.
non mobile [url=
Had a proper run out yesterday at comrie croft. etc
Properly awesome day there yesterday, nice and dusty!
Decent chance our paths crossed, I was the guy on a black Process.
No sign of any geese where I was, there were a few ducks* though 😀
*Both actual and trouser
black suppressor with a coil and my son was on a ripcord. Think I saw a black one at the picnic area.
Just ordered one of these though I think it's on back order unfortunately.
Regarding the Loctite, I've got some of the lipstick type 248 blue, will this be sufficient or will buying some of the red 272 be better?
Sam, buddy of mine is a mechanic for top EWS team, he's fitted these in all their bikes, reckons you need a heat gun to get the area bonded nice and warm first.
I've yet to ask him why... Just thought I'd let ye know!
Ta, I was planning on whacking it in a pan of boiling water for 10mins to hopefully loosen it off. It's the Loctite thing I'm a little worried about.
I have some 272, I'm sure I have, a big massive bottle. I'll check tonight, I could decant some into a wee dropper bottle if you need some, no probs...
I used 248 - zero kitten fatalities yet - I'm having the fork apart soon to service it so I'll check it, but I doubt it'll come loose, there's no rotational forces acting on it - I suspect you'd get away with putting it in dry.
Yes to the boiling water, Mrs hairdryer did little really.
The 2 I have done came off easily, no heating up etc, just a decent T Allen key.
I just used whatever threadlock I had, can't see how it would unscrew.
Cheers chaps and for kind offer NoBeer.
I'll wing it with the 248 and make sure it's pretty tight, though I have found a bottle of 272 for £6 on ebay.
Fitted a Luftkappe to my 29er pikes last night, initial thoughts that they feel a little more sensitive at the top of the stroke and ramp up nicely, proper test on Wednesday.
Servicing a mates forks last night and pulling the air shaft out revealed the following modification done by a suspension tuning company, simple, but only gaining a little extra negative volume.
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