Anybody running this in conjunction with an MRP Ramp Control cartridge on their fork too! Or even know if it's possible?
Taken from TF tuned.
Compatibility with MRP Ramp Control:
Pike 27.5" 150mm or less, the Luftkappe is fine. At 160mm travel it does not clear.
Lyrik 27.5" 160mm, the Luftkappe is fine. At 170mm travel it does not clear.
Mine arrived yesterday from TF.
Going to wait until the shaft clamp I've ordered from ebay turns up before fitting.
Anybody running this in conjunction with an MRP Ramp Control cartridge on their fork too! Or even know if it's possible?Tempted to give it a go, the MRP Ramp control cart has improved the end stroke for me on my 160mm Lyrik, but I'd like a bit more mid stroke support too without having to add compression damping causing spiking and/or adding air to make the fork harsher off the top.
Its def possible TfTuned are offering that very upgrade.
The Luftkappe sounds exactly what Im wanting/needing, Ive experimented with tokens for over a year now and Ive decided I just dont like them, I now run the recommended psi of 85psi with no tokens and it feels spot on but could do with a bit more mid stroke support, forks are due another full service in april so will probably just get Tf to carry it out .
Ok sorted the pressure in the lowers
Problem, did a quick 5min mess about on the bike, feels very different, 90 psi, zero tokens, 25% sag. Very low initial friction and feels supportive as it goes further into the travel.
will report back when I've ridden it properly.
I swapped the O-rings on the seal head so hopefully thats sorted the air leak. feels much better at the same psi which is giving me about 30%. will have to get off road to see how it performs though but initial car park bounce and bunny hops show promise. if everything is ok tomorrow I'll set pressure kitted up.
The golf club clamp arrived today and worked a treat. Cheers for the heads up colp.
2 questions.
Someone who owns one is the luftkappe just expanding the negative? There's no magic valving or similar?
What forks are you putting these on?
It just increase the negative air Spring like the evol, debonair, corset cans do on shocks. Nothing is done to the damper side of things
Mine is on a 26 pike 160mm.
We were looking at the pics in my LBS and deduced that the Luftkappe is shifting volume from the positive chamber to the negative chamber, whilst keeping the seals moving along the same range within the fork (so the transfer port which charges the negative chamber is still in the right place).
It's basically replacing a simple flat piston with a heavily dished one, shaped a bit like a chemistry beaker. This reduction in positive chamber is similar to adding one token.
So I emailed STEVE from vorsprung:
When I lifted the bike it extended fully but with just the weight of the bike it went 2/3mm into the travel.
His response
2-3mm of variation in travel is pretty normal - it can actually allow sag under the weight of the bike alone, but if you lift the front wheel off the ground by the handlebars it should extend to full travel.
The extra negative air is in the dome of the luftkappe. Not a huge volume but does make significant difference
Yeah thats what I thought CGG - I just wanted to make sure it wasnt any more complex than that. Wondering if anyone has tried it on a Lyrik - which already has the same kind of negative chamber size so would be even biggerer).
antares - Member
The golf club clamp arrived today and worked a treat. Cheers for the heads up colp.
You're welcome mate!
Benpinnick
I fitted my luftkappe on a brand new 160mm lyrik, I've not trail tested yet so no real world reports.
Because of the negative pressure, the initial friction is ridiculously low, as I said the bikes own weight take 2/3mm of travel
Thanks Chris, let me know how you get on.
I've also just used the shaft clamp in the link to remove the piston head and it worked spot on. So again cheers for the link.
For anyone looking for Loctite 272 at a better price try here.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282312051739?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Just did my lad's Lyrics.
Here's a good video to take you through the "pre Vorsprung" parts of the procedure:
[url]
Then just follow Vorsprung's own video.
A few tips:
The golf clamp works perfectly.
My forks are fairly new so the original grease was like new, so I re-used that.
Trickiest part was removing and reinstalling the stantion lower circlip, I had to tap the air seal with something blunt and a mallet to move it into the stantion enough to remove the circlip
To reinstall the circlip I had to push and hold the air shaft right in to create a vacuum behind the air seal.
All in including taking the fork off the bike and reinstalling etc took about 90 mins.
Just ordered!
Anyone not fitted theirs yet would they be kind enough to measure max width with vernier's so can see if can squeeze into set of Devilles which think have a larger diameter interior stanchion to normal
Over the widest part of the plastic it's 30.5mm, over the O-ring 31mm
Cheers buddy thanks a lot
Time to do some measuring
First proper ride today with the luftkappe fitted, (lyrik 160mm)
As said, small bump very good and felt very nice over general fast trail descents.
I was running 80 psi and 2 tokens, now zero tokens and 100psi, used all the travel on a 2/3 foot drop but didn't feel and bottom out so may try 1 or half a token with a bit lower pressure. Feels very different that pre luftkappe but as I've never tried a coil fork I cannot say it feels like that but it's certainly less divey if that's an explanation.
First ride with it on the way to work tomorrow and then a proper test in the evening. It may be a little damp...
Watching this wth interest.
chrisdiesel - What were you feeling the Lyrik was lacking and has it improved that?
I really like mine, but it doesn't quite feel as fluid as my old Marz RC3 ti coil forks - and it seems hard to get into the bottom of the travel.
I might just have too much air in it though, I'm not much of a tinkerer.
The larger negative spring makes the initial break away force less while it beefs up the mid stroke and provides ramp up at the end.
It will only beef up the midstroke if you remove some tokens and run less sag/more pressure.
If you really want midstroke support in an air fork you need to go to a three chamber air system like the Manitou IRT, the Ohlins system, The Pike/Lyrik/Boxxer AWK modification and every motocross air fork.
The Luftkappe combined with the AWK modification, would probably produce the best air sprung fork on the market - as the Ohlins supposedly suffers from a small negative spring chamber.
It will only beef up the midstroke if you remove some tokens and run less sag/more pressure.
You are expected to remove two tokens and run higher pressure, whilst still achieving the same sag. So it does considerably firm up the midstroke.
Chakapin: nothing really lacking from my lyrik, I'm kind of the opposite, I want to pull everything apart and mess and modify.
I'm 190lb in riding gear, I've tried it with and without one token.
The small bump is improved, and with zero tokens it will use its full travel and tracks very well. I'm still messing with rebound and air pressure. But definitely better than before, I think from what I've read the improvement is bigger on a pike because the lyrik already has a larger negative air section that a pike.
Can anyone offer advice on removing the piston head? Even with the proper shaft clamp in a vice no matter what I do the shaft just turns as I try to undo bolt.
I've tried inner tube, heating around the threads and also soaking it in hot water all to no avail.
Toys are about to get thrown
tighten the clamp up more? heat up the shaft more - it was a right effort to remove it for me and I know quite a few people have rounded the head on the bolt.
I think from what I've read the improvement is bigger on a pike because the lyrik already has a larger negative air section that a pike.
Aye, I don't feel I need to do anything with my Lyrik, but the Pike on my 29er could definitely benefit from some more support.
I dont like a marshmallow fork so tend to run higher pressure,which in turns has its downsides, luftkappe has been perfect, tons of support and very supple off the top.I can be a bit heavy handed at times so just got TF to install with a service :/
Well I ordered a luftkappe and a 2 quid ebay golf clamp today
exciting times
fwiw I dont have a problem with the charge damper, Ive never noticed the spike people talk about!
I just cant get the balance between small bump vs too divey right
hoping the luftkappe will fix it,
(I already replaced the grease in the -ve chamber with float fluid and found this helped a bit)
also got an evol sleeve s/h on pinkbike to play around with too
What is the AWK mod?
transition1 - How'd it go with the Deville... I have two sets that i'd love to give a little tweak.
So mines here but i dont have any red loctite
this one is available in halfords though
will i die if I use this stuff?
https://www.granvilleoil.com/techData/pdfTechData?ptdID=130
Well fitting was pretty easy (ive opened up the -ve chamber b4 so pretty happy with that part anyway)
I just left the seal head in a cup of hot water for ten mins, used the 2 quid ebay golf club holder in my bike workstand clamp and it unscrewed with a bit of force, but way easier than expected
I used Granville bearing fit & studlock as it seems to have the same spec as red loctite.
Only ridden it up and down the road, took out 2 tokens as suggested and extra 10 % PSI and its very plush and a bit brake divey, but sag is at 30%, and i susually run 20-25, so ill try for some extra PSI then maybe a token, wont get a proper ride till next weekend at the earliest tho
There's some bloke on EBay trying to figure out why he's selling so many golf clamps lately.
The AWK mod, is this.
http://www.fahrrad-fahrwerk.de/awk/
It gives you a similar three chamber air setup to the Ohlins forks and the Manitou IRT, similar systems are also found on air motocross forks.
Coil is still the best way for MTB, due to the lightness of the bikes. A coil added all of 170 grams to my Pike. Not a lot in the scheme of things.
tbf in the ride off a few kerbs test the lufftkappe does give that coil like feel at the start of travel, even with a bit more PSI
and ive been riding my z150 rc2 bombers to the station all week, so im in a coil zone at the moment
Ive always liked my pikes but i had some rc3ti 44s that were just perfect grip wise, but always wanted a heavier spring as they were a bit divey for me even with air preload
anyway pleased so far, looking forward to a proper test and fettle
Ive got an Evo can for my rear shock coming this week, wondering if I shouldve stumped up extra for the vorsprung corset!
Fitted mine last night, I'm not very mechanically minded, but I followed the RS instructions to the point where the Vosprung video takes over and it wasn't too bad. The circlip is always a proper PITA for me, but I managed it single handedly in the end.
Did I mention I'm not very mechanically minded? Anyway, I hadn't realised the £2 golf clamp also required a vice, I was just trying to hold it - no bueno. Much swearing later and I managed it with a combination of the Wife's turbo hair-drier, leaving it sitting in boiling water and luck.
I would have liked to have the damper out and service that, my forks are Yaris so I don't need any fancy tools and it's meant to be straight forward but I just ran out of time.
Forks feel super plush, but lower service and I guess fresh seals and grease on the air side will do that. I'm looking forward to a test ride tomorrow.
Quite pleased, bit plusher, but holds up better under braking,
as P-Jay says, post service forks always feel nice but definitely a bit something extra, might try with a token and less pressure and see how it goes
I'm quite happy with mine. Front is now more balanced with the coil on the rear, not going to bother with the damping tune now.
Took mine around the diverted Cwmcarn trail today, I've gone from 3 tokens to 1 and up about 10% air pressure.
It's plusher over small rocks and roots etc, but at the same time far better on bigger hits, it's best on hard breaking you can really brake late and turn without the fork diving.
Like Fox did with their air-can design I can see RS pinching the idea for their forks soon enough.
Well got some riding in and I'm very pleased bit less pressure extra 2 clicks of compression found i need much less rebound too
fork felt spot on at Black , mountain cycle centre uplift day.
Borrowed a Shockwizz and first ride is telling me I've set it up 100% balanced? already I'm no suspension pro, but i think the luftkappe is well worth it.
I've ordered a novyparts kit for the aids on Lewis's ripcord. So will see how that affects his fork.
I've not done enough big hits to see how he luftkappe affects them but I'm running the same pressure as before so getting a bit more sag
Agreed p-jay rockshox next pike will have bigger -ve chamber just like the luftkappe, I'm sure
really surprised how much difference it made, i had a twiddle at BMCC and needed a bit more compression and kept backing down the rebound, didn't realise till yesterday when i counter the clicks I've gone from 66% to 33% of my range, surprised that a cm2? of -ve chamber makes such a difference, i think the damping circuit is having to work much less now, Poah is right- makes the pike damping spot on, no need to tune
