[Closed] Velodrome spoilers....

Funny to read all the comments about the french being bad losers on the one hand, then come over here and read all this jumping up and down at commisaires and excusing VP.

You can't get religated for going over the line if you dont go over the line.

but she did.

so suck it up eh?

Had the situation been reversed, I'm sure most people here would be saying it was correct.

I'd imagine the referees are probably more knowledgeable and experienced with the rules of track cycling than anyone on here. They have far better access to video and other equipment, so can get a far better view of things, I'd imagine.

It was a bit of argy-bargy in the finishing straight, and VP came out of her lane. The decision was entirely fair. Vicky seems to have accepted it, so should everyone else. It's over. Anna Meares is the Olympic Sprint Champion.

Besides, Anna absolutely destroyed Vicky in the second race. Brilliant ride. showed what the sprint is all about, fantastic entertainment.

if VP hadn't been relegated then the decision could also be seen as being fair.
fairness should not come into it. it should be that the decision is right or wrong and if that means tightening up the rules then so be it.
what would be interesting, is to know the rationale for the decision that was made - but we will never get to know this.
.
having said that, there are other sports that are far more subjective, like boxing, wrestling and judo.

it should be that the decision is right or wrong and if that means tightening up the rules then so be it.

surely this olymipcs and the last world champs has been a lesson in 'tightening up' on the rules.

and yet this

Some bad calls by Wayne Pomario and co in these olympics. [b]Former appears to be trying to make a name for himself[/b].

seems to be the response to it.

The decision was fair

Really? On what basis are you ignoring the barging from AM which started it all off?

surely this olymipcs and the last world champs has been a lesson in 'tightening up' on the rules.

If they're tightening up the rules, why was AM given so much slack for the barging which came before (and caused) VP crossing the line?

AM was rewarded for riding dirty.

Besides, Anna absolutely destroyed Vicky in the second race. Brilliant ride. showed what the sprint is all about, fantastic entertainment.

See comments above about how VP's head had gone after the DQ.

You get a lot of marginal calls in sprinting - this time it didn't go VP's way. To me it looked like she came out to block fractionally before any elbows action. Whatever - it is a best of three contest, and she did have the best position in the second leg. Mears beat her with better nerve and tactics in the that leg. On balance, I don't think the result was unfair.

If your head goes after a dispute, you aren't a very good sprint racer! It is a nervy business - all part of the game.

" They have far better access to video and other equipment, so can get a far better view of things, I'd imagine."

Yes, other equipment includes his right hand man " Hawkeye"

[IMG] [/IMG]

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Look, it's over. The race has been run. Anna Meares is champion. Both women have shown each other loads of respect. Vicky seems to have accepted it and has stated Anna is a 'worthy winner'.

you can choose to carry on being angry about what you perceive to be an 'injustice', or you can simply accept the reality and move on. It's up to you.

Personally, I'm just a bit sad that such an intense rivalry has come to an end. Both women brought tons of passion, excitement and drama to the sport, and gave us a fantastic spectacle. Both women deserve our respect for achieving something none of us could. Well done to both.

You get a lot of marginal calls in sprinting - this time it didn't go VP's way. [b]To me it looked like she came out to block fractionally before any elbows action[/b]. Whatever - it is a best of three contest, and she did have the best position in the second leg. Mears beat her with better nerve and tactics in the that leg. On balance, I don't think the result was unfair.

Spot on

Really? On what basis are you ignoring the barging from AM which started it all off?

The basis that I was there.
Who else on this thread was
a) at the velodrome during that race
b) knows about track rules (other than what Hugh Porter tells you)
c) knows about the judging and officiating that [b]actually happened[/b] (as opposed to what you think happened or what it looks like from a short video replay).

It's over. Yes, it's hard for Vicky, it's not the golden end she wanted and I feel desperately sorry for her, she was in absolute pieces after that race as I said earlier.
On the other hand, if it was the other way round and Anna Meares was kicking up a fuss, we'd all be on here saying "live with it" and "it's the rules". I know where you're coming from and the desire to see the Brit triumph is fantastic, it has genuinely inspired people who might not otherwise care about track racing. But going back over it again and again isn't going to help anyone. The result on the night was the right one - Anna was the better rider that night and she well and truly had the measure of Vicky in Rd 2 (helped of course by Vicky not being mentally with it by then).

To me, Vicky didn't lose and the negative reporting (especially by the BBC) has really annoyed me. She WON Silver. That's still an amazing feat and as I said a page ago - best of luck to her in her retirement following a career which has been truly world beating.

Well said carzy-legs. I don't mind a bit of partisanship in the media, but i thought Boardman and others were just being disrespectful to both riders really. It was a hard-fought contest, those two have a history of producing exciting and sometimes controversial clashes. But Anna won in true style, Vicky fought valiantly, and all the commentators etc could do was whine and moan. Boardman should have apologised once he realised he'd been wrong. The commissar's job must be incredibly difficult, and to make decisions the home crowd don't like must be very tough, but he has to remain impartial, dispassionate and objective. The BBC should take heed of that, because they're not doing a very good job on that score. It's good to get behind your home athletes, sure, but all the others have trained hard for years too, and they deserve respect.

"Being there" ie the velodrome is unbeatable for the experience and atmosphere, but sitting in front of a large screen HD telly is unbeatable for seeing what actually happens in sport with super slow motion as well.

The coverage didn't seem very good - it was obvious they had started making the announcement of the decision over the PA, while the TV presenter kept blethering away over the top. It seemed some on here noticed the line infringement before the presenters, who thought the commissaires were looking at the photo finish. 😕

The basis that I was there.
Who else on this thread was
a) at the velodrome during that race
b) knows about track rules (other than what Hugh Porter tells you)
c) knows about the judging and officiating that actually happened (as opposed to what you think happened or what it looks like from a short video replay)

a friend of mine was working track center and standing next to Jason Kenny away from the media watching the final their opinion differs from yours. they too are equally qualified to judge what went on.

"Being there" ie the velodrome is unbeatable for the experience and atmosphere, but sitting in front of a large screen HD telly is unbeatable for seeing what actually happens in sport with super slow motion as well.

I just watched it again a few times, and the only serious elbows were after the swerve. Thee was a little swinging around from Meares just before, but not an actual shove.

The basis that I was there.

Ah - so you had a much better view of what happened than from looking at the "close ups" on TV 🙄

I love the super slow-mo shots. how many frames a second are they shooting, or does it work differently these days with video?

You guys need to ask yourselves honestly what your opinion would be with the positions reversed. It's just ridiculous. Plus it was only the first round - sprinters should be able to re-compose themselves, and she didn't. Sadly her second run was poor, with poor judgement. Meares deserved the win, on balance.

You guys need to ask yourselves honestly what your opinion would be with the positions reversed.

Easy. The judges should have left well alone. If AM had won that run by 0.001s then I'd have said she deserved it.

Getting relegated by the same commissaire for a second time after you just won , and having been pushed/elbowed by your opponent causing you to go out of your lane, and you must just keep calm and carry on?
Get real .

For the second time? What? when?

Didn't you see the women's team sprint qualifiers?

Yes I saw that. How is that relevant? They (well, VP) screwed up. And?

and having been pushed/elbowed by your opponent causing you to go out of your lane, and you must just keep calm and carry on?

Elbowing happened after the swerve.

Keeping calm and carrying on is a skill of track sprinting.

a friend of mine was working track center and standing next to Jason Kenny away from the media watching the final their opinion differs from yours. they too are equally qualified to judge what went on.

So you're hearing it 2nd hand. The GB pen was over the other side of the track, about as far as possible from the Judges Stand and from the section of the track where the incident occurred.

As for watching it on TV - you think the judges didn't have the same feed? And the fact that there was a Commissaire stood on the final bend right next to where it happened. It wasn't a decision made by one official "trying to make a name for himself", it was a joint call using the information from a variety of sources (including slo-mo TV replays).

This thread has really been ruined by this argument, it was a celebration of all the excitement that was going on in the velodrome and it's just turned into a sour grapes battle over why Vicky was relegated. She broke the rules. Not intentionally, not by a huge margin but enough to mean that the relegation was the appropriate response.

but enough to mean that the relegation was the appropriate response

no, enough to mean that relegation was [u]an[/u] appropriate response. letting the result stand would also have been an appropriate response.
what people are miffed at is that the commissar didn't choose the former as his judgement, which would have been favourable as we are British and therefore want such subjective decisions to go our way.

Crazy-legs, I know the judges had the same feed,just wanted to point out that you being there didn't give you a superior view of the incident.

what people are miffed at is that the commissar didn't choose the former as his judgement.

No good getting miffed at something because you don't like it. According to the rules, that would have been the wrong judgment, and he'd have not been doing his job properly. the Aussies would have appealed, and if that decision had not been reversed, then the whole wrold would be crying foul. VP rode outside her lane, and has no argument. It's against the rules and she was relegated accordingly.

Deal with it. Anna Meares is Olympic Sprint Champion. And rightly so.

So sputnik. In what way is the Women's Team Sprint relevant? You brought it up, but you appear now to be ignoring it?

No good getting miffed at something because you don't like it.

apologies, but this is a standard human response to something you don't like.

the Aussies would have appealed

I don't believe that you can appeal the decision.

psa bmx

I don't believe that you can appeal the decision.

Ok. But the whole world would have seen the fact that VP rode outside of her lane, which is against the rules. And had she won, the victory may have been seen worldwide as unjust and tainted.

The right decision was made, and the right outcome resulted.

In VP's interview afterwards she said getting relegated twice was "unbelievable" and "unheard of". So the same guy shafting you twice ( and after you've been elbowed) will affect you. And it did.

In that case she is still in denial about the Team Sprint - not only did she very very clearly screw up (miles over the line), but it was her fault and she denied Jess Varnish a chance of an olympic medal.

Do you think they should have been let off that infringement then?

I think you're in denial too - and for no reason. She won an amazing Silver to go with her amazing Keirin gold, to top off an amazing career in a sport that often has very close finishes which don't always go your way.

Shhh, I'm watching BMX

the Aussies would have appealed, and if that decision had not been reversed, then the whole wrold would be crying foul.

Not given AM's reaction straight after the sprint they wouldn't.

VP rode outside her lane, and has no argument. It's against the rules and she was relegated accordingly.

So is crowding the rider in the sprinters lane as you try to overtake them, which AM did before VP rode outside her lane. She has no argument about being relegated for that, but strangely she was rewarded for it.

not only did she very very clearly screw up (miles over the line), but it was her fault and she denied Jess Varnish a chance of an olympic medal.

I agree that the TS DQ was quite clear and the correct decision was made, but blaming it all on VP is extremely harsh. I'd suggest that she was pretty diplomatic when commenting earlier given it would have been quite reasonable for her to blame it all on JV - after all, as she said, when Jess swings up that's her cue to go, it's Jess who controls the timing of the changeover. In reality they were both at fault - and I don't know why people are bringing it up in relation to the sprint relegation when that one was completely clear cut and pretty much everybody agrees the judges made the correct decision.

Outsiders
...
mens & womens 470 class sailing

Just to get this thread back on to happier stuff, I'd like to point out that as I suggested earlier the 470 crews are far from outsiders for gold. In fact going into the medal race the women's 470 crew have a match race with NZ - level on points and already guaranteed at least a silver.

Looks like the Chinese are appealing the relegation in the Women's team sprint final. 😐

Good to hear. I wish them well. Absolutely appalling decision, although I understood there was no right to appeal.

On what basis are they appealing? I thought they had the same issue as VP/JV, just that it was a lot closer (can't find the video to check - anybody know how to find links to old "live" footage?) In which case are they appealing the rule which says the lead-off rider has to lead the first lap, or some other point?

Edit: was being stupid about finding the footage, but for anybody else also being stupid, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/schedule-results select the day and there should be a "catch up" link to the video. The footage in question is at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/live-video/p00w2zws

More a case of sending a strongly worded letter to UCI complaining about rule changes and personal interpretations of the rule.
Storm meet tea cup.