[Closed] Upping your game, getting more air, harder trails, more jumps ?

MTFU.

Id be interested in this too. Im very much an XC rider but with the inevitable trail centre visits and these tending to lean towards trail riding than XC it would be good to be able to hit stuff and get some enjoyment out of the effort that went in.

FWIW I did a Jedi visit, found it very informative and my riding came on a lot, but jumping I still feel out of my depth. He works in a very controlled environment and maybe the biggest issue Ive had is getting speed right for jumps. I hit his double no problem with the building up method he used, but on the trails when faced with one Ive no idea if Im going to come up short (most likely), overshoot (maybe) or get it spot on (very unlikely)

that's easier said than done both on timescales

That's your answer really. If you want to get any good, then you have to spend quite alot of time practicing. Obviously that's alot harder if you've got a family and a job.

That's your answer really. If you want to get any good, then you have to spend quite alot of time practicing. Obviously that's alot harder if you've got a family and a job.

I get to do a bit of it in a jump gully by my place, I take my 5 year old over and he does 'jumpies' too, but it's only a single jump and i'm not really sure how to get better on it, it's both wheels 12"-24" air under them, but do I just hit it harder/faster and see if I can go higher/further ?

Like the guy above, repetition is all well and good, but i'm not likely to find that exact jump on a trail anytime soon.... which is when it gets a bit more complex.

I have progressed a lot over the last 3 years, without ever (so far) getting good at jumping. I'm reasonably confident these days in very rough stuff, with masses of exposure, on very steep trails, doing tight switchbacks, over small drops etc. I have simply never got any good at jumping. I don't like running at jumps, I'm unreasonably convinced something bad is going to happen etc. As a result, air-time is minimal, but (unless there's an unavoidable large jump) I'm not exactly mincing.

Most of that progress has been achieved by mixing up who I ride with, doing some guided holidays and (rather crucially) a bike with spot-on geometry, a shortish stem and good brakes.

🙂

I don't exactly know tbh. It's never felt like there's really different sorts of riding to me, oldschool XC led to trail centres led to downhill very naturally, we started riding the innerleithen dh trails just because they were there. I had mates lift me up very fast at first, but then I think I was mostly just doing it myself without really thinking about it. Just riding by riding.

Still not a good jumper mind, I need to really be able to predict the whole jump and see how it'll go, and I can't always do that on bigger ones. I think as a more fragile/less brave that's how I do everything, if I can't visualise how it'll work, I just don't do it.

Practice I suppose. I am no expert though. It is difficult to practice too, time is precious, and stopping to session a drop/jump etc makes your rides very disjointed and pisses everyone else off as they fly down the trail pulling massive air and a tail whip off that tiny bump you've been eyeing up.

I too went to Jedi, and it was useful. I have no doubt that if I went back I would be able to fly the jumps that he gets you to do in your first session. Like you say, it's a controlled environment. Out on the trail is a different matter.

Sounds like yo're on the right lines. Practice on your single gully jump. Keep doing it over and over, couple of times per week or more (if you can manage).

It's really all about learning the proper technique, once you have that you can apply it to any jump you encounter. Try getting a jump bike aswell, will make it easier.

I get to do a bit of it in a jump gully by my place, I take my 5 year old over and he does 'jumpies' too, but it's only a single jump and i'm not really sure how to get better on it, it's both wheels 12"-24" air under them, but do I just hit it harder/faster and see if I can go higher/further ?

Head to the jump gulley at Swinely once it dries out again in the spring (no point riding it in the mud, it just trashes it and likely to end in tears).

Get used to riding it at a normal pace, then work on seeing just how slow you can go and still make the landings smooth, that'll teach you to really pump the take off for height and move the bike arround in the air (IME).

Then see how fast you can do them, that'll teach you to squash them to avoid overshooting the landings.

Once that's sorted bigger stuff is easier (it's the technique of doing jumps slowly, but done with more speed!).

I'm still crap mind you! I seem to be able to learn one jump at a time, actualy applying that to a new one seems impossible in my head! Which means I never get the ones on deerstalker smooth, as a lap takes too long to make it worth repeating.

Not quite 40 but heading that way.

Be committed to wanting to improve which means a little bit of MTFU and a bit of peer pressure but the big thing for me was a session with Jedi which changed my approach to riding and more importantly my attitude towards trying new things.

After the coaching it was making sure I set myself little targets like doing a certain jump or drop.

I'm hardly Brandon Semenuk but much less Tim Gould than I used to be, and most importantly loving my riding again.

Find a local BMX track, they are top for this sort of thing.

get a jump bike and practise

I was wondering how people have 'progressed' from being an XC kind of rider, to more jumps, more air, gaps etc.

There is no secret to it, the more you ride a certain type of terrain, the better you get (typically)

When I got back into riding, I was pretty useless at riding jumps. Now I am reasonable at jumping and understand what I am doing when I hit a transition, due to practice.

I made the mistake of thinking that speed was good on jumps....

A session with jedi showed that i needed technique first and speed second, but unfortunately, a complete lack of anywhere to practice and build up that technique as really left me going nowhere. As an ex XCer, i'd always absorb any jump and stay as close to wheels on the floor as possible, and as such this is my "natural" reflex now, which is making deliberately "popping off and up" things very difficult with limited practice.

Being "comfortable" in the air is a stage i haven't got to yet, and frankly it shows. Annoyingly, i'm always the first to the bottom of any given trail, as i have (i think) good technique for other things like manuals, bunnyhops, etc. Somehow, i just have to apply that to jumps. Back to that Practice word i think...........

It's really all about learning the proper technique, once you have that you can apply it to any jump you encounter.

That, followed by this

Head to the jump gulley at Swinely once it dries...Get used to riding it at a normal pace, then work on seeing just how slow you can go and still make the landings smooth, that'll teach you to really pump the take off.

The secret of jumping is pumping, knowing when to and how much to for a given situation, and that only comes with lots practice. It is possible to make it over some jumps in a safe and controlled manner without being able to pump masterfully, which is what i'd recommend for someone 40 tree rings old. Skills courses will teach this technique, and again you'll need to practice it - to the point it becomes instinct. Once it's second nature and a jump gives no more concern than a root or boulder then that should free up brain space to work on going bigger and higher out on the trails.

My progression is in the other direction. I was always a jumper but am attempting to put more effort in the xc side of things. I really wouldn't fancy having to learn to jump properly now i'm in my 40s 😉

I'd say the biggest thing for me has been hitting some sketchy home trails right after a trip away that leaves you "deconditioned" - build up confidence on familiar yet scary local stuff you know.

Straight after the EWS final I made a point of attacking some local off piste things that weren't even trails, more like animal tracks, but essentially no worse than what I saw in Finale. That helped me grow more confident and be able to practice more on stuff that previously I'd seen and said "no way".

Hope that helps!

well Im 44 and got a DH bike earlier this year, then spent the summer in the alps
now I have the skills and confidence to ride pretty much anything in the UK.
still not that fast, but loving DH and entered a few races, but in the DH races Im clearing the gaps, and drops etc so feel in myself that its paid off, that now translates to a better riding style on the trails on the xc machine.
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not perfect Im sure I'll get critiqued but a big improvement on my old riding techniques.

Take you local / favourite jump, and according to what's around build it up slowly, snd keep practicing. Tables are doubles with the middle still in.

Ride with some peeps who do the sort of thing you're aiming for, ask for tips.

Some good points above. This topic a few weeks ago covered it aswell http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/drops-and-jumps

Hey Weeksy get yourself booked on a few uplifts . I regularly ride with a bunch of guys and gals most whom have raced DH and stuff like the Mega etc and since I've been been doing uplifts with them on a fairly regular basis I'd say my riding and confidence on drops,roots etc has come on loads . It was really noticeable when I got to spend 10 days in Les Arcs this summer,still minced down a few bits but by the end I was getting down stuff I never imagined I would . Go on you know you want to:-)

I was in a similar situation, just not confident on jumps despite having the basic skills required to do them.
I`m the same on a Motor bike, with Wheelies over crests etc, I don't like hitting stuff I cant see all the way through.

What I needed was a "How to put it all together, and in what order at what time"
I went to see Jedi and did his public Jumps and Drops course, the single best spend on Any bike related "Upgrade" I have ever made...

Went from effectively "Barely controlled not crashing" to clearing a 12' Gap jump off the log booter in about 3 hours 😀

I still don't hit everything on the trail, still wont hit dirt jumps, as I`ve not kept practicing on it, but the technique is there, I just need the practice.

But I would quite happily go and do the same course again as I found it really helped

I've emailed Jedi and will get on the next available course he's got.

I've emailed Jedi and will get on the next available course he's got.

In addition find some small places you can practice(as above there are a few spots at Swinley), maybe build a few small jumps somewhere. Find a pump/jump track. Go on a Nirvana ride from Westcott, Wednesday noon Old blokes or Freeride practice one (Sat or Sun I cannot remember). Obviously this is not coaching/training but they will show you where stuff is and you can watch how it's ridden. There is usually a bit of jumping on Wednesday ride.

Westcott ? That seems to be about 70-80 miles away.

@weeksey - we've exchanged a few emails fyi - Sorry, I thought you where more local to the Surrey Hills. I live in the centre of Guildford and there are a few jumpy trails 20 mins ride from house. Many more in/around main area SH area.

To answer your question - I went to Jedi, go on a few Nirvana rides, practice on local trials (caveat: I am rubbish !)

I guess part of the issue could be the longer term thing of my local riding being quite time, it's West Berks forests, ridgeway, trails and tracks usually, with the odd trip to Swinley and the RARE trip to Afan/Lllandegla that I get in these days. But I honestly fancy a bit more over at Aston as it's no further away than Swinley, but in all honestly it's likely to be quite rare, not every weekend. But that said.. i'd like to have the skills and not use them, rather than not have them at all.

Not sure really, as I've been riding for so long - and through different disciplines. I guess skills from one discipline got transferred over to another - 'pumping' terrain and 'popping' off features in front of me seem 'natural' from riding a BMX around town, searching for things to grind/jump/etc.

Only difference now is the 'natural' ground is a bit softer...

My gnaaaaarrrrr skillset has reduced over the years (no more flips / tailwhips / flairs), but I can still bust out the 360s on the BMX (much to the amazement of the local kids)

Gaps don't bother me to much, as it's more about momentum than "skill".

The problem in the UK is that you might come across one or two jumps on a normal afternoon XC ride. They don't really feature that highly in the riding that a lot of us do. The way to get good at jumps is to ride them, lots. Do them over and over until you're not really thinking about them, and you're certainly not hesitant.

My advice would be to go to Whistler and do some A-Line laps. I don't know how many jumps there are in that, probably 30-40. You can do 10+ laps a day - You do the maths. It's just repeated exposure and you can't help but get into a rhythm where you feel more comfortable. If you can't jump after a couple of days of that, then give up. Of course, if you can't find the time / money to go on a Jedi trip, this is probably not the most sensible answer.

I've not found anywhere in the UK that comes close to that sort of thing, but Bike Park Wales maybe? I've never been but it looks as though it might be what you need.

as a 50+ (who is too slowly getting braver), my suggestions would be:

jedi/GreatRock - which you have sorted
flat pedals & flatty shoes
upydowny seatpost.

Lee Quarry is a good place to practise these sorts of things as you can just session one short section of jumps/berms/drop offs/pump - what ever takes your fancy.

I was debating the Uppy downy Reverb at On-one currently, but need to find a decent solution on the spearfish for the cable.

I have flats and 5 10's.

My advice would be to go to Whistler and do some A-Line laps. I don't know how many jumps there are in that, probably 30-40. You can do 10+ laps a day - You do the maths

LOL unless they move Whistler to Berkshire that's unlikely to happen. In the middle of buying a house, if I had more money spare i'd be doing Morzine for Passportes du Soleil, but I can't see it happening this year.

Get to Aston when it's dry. Lots of do-able jumps and drops there now.

Reverb comes with clips to attach it to a brake line, so you don't need frame guides.

If you're just practicing jumps then you don't need to spend money on a reverb seatpost. Just put yours down, as far as it'll go.

Consider this - Weeksy is as hard as they come, i have witnessed Weeksy tackle southdowns off road at night, he can ride ! FACT . he looks as though he can handle a rumble outside a scouse boozer! FACT , he would and has ridden me to shame ,good luck weeksy as if you need it xx

trevron73 - Member

Consider this - Weeksy is as hard as they come, i have witnessed Weeksy tackle southdowns off road at night, he can ride ! FACT . he looks as though he can handle a rumble outside a scouse boozer! FACT , he would and has ridden me to shame ,good luck weeksy as if you need it xx

That's very nice of you to say fella... However, when it comes to getting air time, i'm so girly it's unreal. Unless I can see that leading edge, see the back edge, know there's nothing in the middle and the way out is clear then i'm keeping both wheels on the ground.

Being able to pedal for hours and hours isn't the same as jumping a gap 🙂

Er

Trevron putting kisses on the end of your statement might suggest you are lovers as opposed to roughty toughty bikers.
FACT
😉 x

LOL I've only met him once too.. I never made that much of an impression on the wife !

Weeksy sorry ,i have put my man crush all over the web ,im washing the soap suds off as i type GRRRR

Booked with Jedi 28th Feb!

Hi Guys.

I've posted this a few places to help people out. A in depth view to pumping. Should help anyone bring on their jumping.

So after quite a bit of research I’ve found a few different views and techniques for pumping, as mine is very different I thought I’d share it with the world to see if it helps any of you out!

As some of you know pumping is the golden skill in the mountain bike world for those of you that don’t make it your main skill to learn. Pumping is used for everything, jumping, drops, cornering and rough terrain along with other. Moral of the story is only pedal when pumping can’t be used efficiently or pedalling will bring substantially more speed.

[b]The pumping movement[/b]

I try to get my clients to compare the pumping technique to bouncing on a trampoline. The lower you get, the more effort you put in to the bounce, the more you get out of it. Another way of looking at it is that bouncing on a trampoline is never forced, you always follow the movement in a smooth, fluid movement. The more you take too much control the more mechanical it is which works against the efficiency of the pumping technique. So weight and un weight by using your body weight and avoid pushing and pulling at all costs as its wasted energy. A few tips are to roll your wrists back and drop your heels slightly. This makes the pumping technique more efficient by directing the momentum under the front wheel rather than over it when having straight wrists. If you struggle with this try to drop your elbows through the movement to allow you to relax.

I always say its better to over exaggerate the movement at first to find the feeling yourself and to train your body to the muscle memory of the movement. Try and feel the movement more than think it as you’re applying it, its trusting your brains already processed it and letting your body go with it. Also the more of a rhythm you get into the smoother and more efficient the pump is. Try carrying one pump to another to improve your flow and energy management on the course.

[b]Pumping points[/b]

I break down pumping into pumping points to create different pumping outcomes. This is normally demonstrated with cones placed on the upslope of a transition or takeoff. You have 2 pumping points, a low and a high.

[b]Low pump[/b]

A low pumping point is used to direct forwards momentum and to take away the lift from the transition instead of scrubbing speed. The low pump generally finishes half way up the transition and starts on the flat part before it starts but the faster you go the earlier the pump starts. The aim is to unweight the body over the upper part of the transition so you don’t lose any of the speed and momentum you entered with and then to add to it by dropping the weight the back side of the transition to add to that current momentum thus upping the overall speed.

A low pump can be used for different outcomes still, to keep the bike on the ground and eliminate lift and also to keep the bike low whilst jumping by not over exaggerating the movement.

[b]High pump[/b]

The high pump is used to gain upwards momentum and height on jumps. This also has two starting points. One is from half way up the transition to the top to make sure you gain proper upward momentum and use the takeoff properly. This is used on the longer transitions or mellow ones where it would be hard to pumping from the bottom to the top of the transition without it running out of momentum and movement. The second one is to pump from the bottom of the transition to the top on smaller or steeper takeoffs where you can’t runout of the pumping movement before the end of the transition.

The lower your body is in the transition the more upwards momentum you gain and the steeper the momentum arch. The momentum arch is the arch in which the momentum follows in the air. The more exaggerated the high pump is the steeper the arch. The thing to remember is steep up is steep down which isn’t always needed. To counteract this try holding the bars till the point in which your upwards momentum runs out which will avoid the back wheel overtaking the front.

So you have you two different points, two different options. Remember that there are always options within those options. The harder you work in those pumping points in regards to weighting and un weighting (not pushing and pulling) the more you get out. For the jumps and corners where you don’t need to get as much out of it or you have excess speed the less you can exaggerate rather than scrubbing speed keeping it efficient.

[b]Pumping through corners[/b]

Pumping through corners aids momentum carried through along with grip but done the wrong way and you can lose grip and blowout. Knowing when is just cornering experience and also judgement in different surfaces but the more you use it the quicker and more predictable your cornering and trust in grip gets.

I tend to pump mainly through tighter corners or steeply banked corner where you can commit your weight without losing too much grip. Pump tracks are a prime example of this. I see so many people creating great speed over the rollers only to lose it in the corners. Carry it through, lower the body, apply the pressure with bodyweight and keep it relaxed, un weight out of the corner to carry it all through and even build on it. Practice is key to maximum efficiency with cornering and its learning to find the limit as there always is one. Remembering that through correct corning technique pushing the corning to the point of loss of grip isn’t always severe due to the correct weight distribution and body positioning.

Loose or flat corners you should use less of a high pressure pump and more of a consistent pressure, more of a lowering of the body to create to lower centre of gravity to give a better balance point and continuous grip throughout. Lastly an early pump in a corner can be used to carry speed out along with aiding line choice to exit early or late depending on how much weight applied in the pump and tightness of the corner.

[b]In a nutshell[/b]

Use your pump wherever possible and try to bounce your bodyweight to keep it relaxed as possible. The more you pump the faster, more precise, fluid and enjoyable your riding will become. In my eyes its the most valuable skill to learn on a bike and can make you look at terrain and trails in a completely different way. Along with all explained above the usual looking in the correct position and other skills apply. Sorry to blabber on but I hope this helps some people out. Get out and practice and keep it relaxed!

Tom

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